IL IL - Elsie Paroubek, 10, Chicago, 7 May 1911

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by iconoclast, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. iconoclast

    iconoclast Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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    The only online discussion of this case is the original New York Times article from 1911:

    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archiv...B1431E233A25751C1A9639C946096D6CF&oref=slogin

    It is interesting that once again, "gypsies" got the blame for this little girl's killing; LE at the time didn't seem to know (or want to admit) that serial killers existed.

    What is most interesting about this case, however, is the connection to well-known outsider artist Henry Darger (Wikipedia, PBS). Darger was a recluse who worked more than 50 years at menial jobs. When he died, it was found he had written and illustrated over 20,000 pages of stories. He was also obsessed with the Paroubek case, to the point that one Darger expert, John McGregor, believes Darger may have been the killer. A news photo of Elsie that Darger treasured, was stolen from his rooms and he was devastated.

    FWIW, my detective sense tells me Darger probably wasn't responsible. He quite probably had either high-functioning autism or severe Asperger syndrome. He had been horrifically abused as a child, but was not known to be violent. Darger was fascinated with children and tried several times to adopt a child. His writings are disturbing at times. But a person who kills so violently once, will almost certainly kill again. There were no other notable child murders around Henry Darger.
     
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  3. shadowangel

    shadowangel Black cats consider me unlucky.

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    Given the time frame, Albert Fish is also a possibility. He claimed a child victim in every state...And even by today's standards Fish was evil, bizarre, and a few other adjectives I can't even spell.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Fish
     
  4. mere

    mere Member

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  5. gaia227

    gaia227 I have never taken any exercise except sleeping an

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  6. shadowangel

    shadowangel Black cats consider me unlucky.

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    Fish got fried in the electric chair in January of 1936. This certainly fits his MO, though, as he liked to send notes to the families of his victims.
     
  7. Stella

    Stella Member

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    The timing is off for the Rodriguez boy to be a victim of Fish. The boy went missing 9 months AFTER Fish was executed.
     
  8. Blackwatch

    Blackwatch Former Member

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    That lets Fish off the hook, he'd already been fried :crazy:
     
  9. Laura_Bean

    Laura_Bean New Member

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    [​IMG]

    In 1911 a little girl named Elsie disappeared in Chicago. On May 11th her little body was found in a drainage canal. She had been suffocated. The city offered a reward of $1000 which included $200 offered by the mayor of Chicago at the time, for information leading to the arrest of the kidnappers. They never found who killed her.

    You don't get much colder than this, being 1911.
     
  10. gaia227

    gaia227 I have never taken any exercise except sleeping an

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  11. Dani_md

    Dani_md New Member

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    Goodness just got done reading Albert Fish. Ugh I am speechless. I don't think he was responsible. He lived in 23 different states killing atleast one child in each state. He was prob in a different state then. Also he found pleasure in torturing his victims, The article only states she was suffocated.
     
  12. jerseylily

    jerseylily New Member

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    I have been researching Elsie's case and the chief of police felt it was possible the gypsies in a nearby encampment had abducted her for ransom of $1000.00. I have also noted in the Chicago Daily news that several children in that time frame were abducted by gypsies and abandoned on the streets after collecting the moneys. Lillian Wolf around the same time that is within a year or so was abducted by gypsies in Chicago and was found alive i believe she was able to tell the police about her abduction.
    I dont think that Fish was involved since he stayed mainly in New york. I get the gut feeling Elsie became ill and was killed by the gypsies because she was dying. Her community was very helpful to the family with funds for her burial. Her Mother died in 1927 and her father died in 1913. They are in a family plot in Chicago. The gypsies would come into town and do readings the trick was to go to the house and distract the mother and inform her in the reading that a tragedy was going to take place. After the distraction the child was taken as Elsie was from her front yard. They covered the child in the back of a wagon and then transported her to another wagon and they would leave town. Her bodie was found about 30 miles from Chicago.
     
  13. Bluejay_Young

    Bluejay_Young New Member

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    I am working on an article on Elsie for Wikipedia. I used the Chicago Tribune news archive and a few other papers thanks to Google News Archive (R.I.P.)

    I was able to find a great deal of information about the search, but the stories dried up after an intriguing one about a disagreement between the Lockport coroner and Chicago police concerning the nature of Elsie's death.

    I'd like to be able to confirm the dates of her mother's and father's deaths. Can you tell me where you got that information? Thanks, Bluejay

    Elsie Paroubek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Elsie_-_lg.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/22/Elsie_-_lg.jpg/200px-Elsie_-_lg.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/2/22/Elsie_-_lg.jpg/200px-Elsie_-_lg.jpg

    P.S. I don't think it was Albert Fish. Not his M.O. I also don't think it was Henry.
     
  14. Bluejay_Young

    Bluejay_Young New Member

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    I am working on a Wikipedia article on Elsie. Any verifiable info you can provide on her story would be greatly appreciated. I need facts backed up by newspaper articles. Thanks, Bluejay

    Elsie Paroubek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Elsie_-_lg.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/22/Elsie_-_lg.jpg/200px-Elsie_-_lg.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/2/22/Elsie_-_lg.jpg/200px-Elsie_-_lg.jpg
     
  15. georgiagirl

    georgiagirl Opinionated Southern Belle

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    That news article says she was ten but I thought she was five when she was murdered.
     
  16. Cappuccino

    Cappuccino Well-Known Member

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    It was probably the organ grinder, he was the last person seen with her.
     
  17. Bluejay_Young

    Bluejay_Young New Member

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    I have often wondered about the organ grinder. Was he all that he seemed, or was he supposed to distract children so they could be picked up? Was he found and questioned? I have no access to the Chicago Daily News, and the Tribune doesn't say.
     
  18. TechWriter797

    TechWriter797 Registered Voter

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    I saw Henry Darger's "The Story of the Vivian Girls" manuscript at the American Folk Art Museum in NYC. It was very disturbing.
     
  19. Bluejay_Young

    Bluejay_Young New Member

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    All the evidence I've been able to find points away from Henry.

    In fact, another man who was a "loner", Joseph Konesti, was investigated for Elsie's murder. He was subsequently cleared -- five days after he committed suicide. I believe Konesti killed himself because as a "loner" or "recluse" he knew that if the cops decided to pin Elsie's murder on him he was a dead man already, having no friends to vouch for his whereabouts or character.
     
  20. Bluejay_Young

    Bluejay_Young New Member

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    I am deeply indebted to "Dogmama08" from Find-a-Grave, who located and passed on to me the information about Elsie's parents, their names, birth places and death dates.

    Elsie's mother was born Karolina Vojacek on November 26, 1869, in Mícov (Meconi), East Bohemia, in what is now the Czech Republic. Elsie's father Frantisek (Frank) Paroubek was born in Bohemia November 15, 1867. His father's name was John. Frank and Karolina were married in Bohemia about 1892. In the United States, Frank worked as a painter while Karolina maintained the home. Elsie was apparently their only child.

    The date of Frank's death, May 12, 1913, is the second anniversary of Elsie's funeral, and I would be willing to bet money that he killed himself.
     
  21. HMSHood

    HMSHood Admiral-Class Battlecruiser

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    I read about Albert Fish. He makes Jeffrey Dahmer look like a saint. From how Elsie Paroubek was killed, I don't think Fish killed her.

    I wonder why he would commit suicide.
     

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