IL - Krystal Tobias, 9, & Laura Hobbs, 8, found dead in Zion park, 8 May 2005 - #1

[lostfaith]

Calimom: Your post re: "The mothers of the two slain girls met for the first time at a memorial..."

That's a very valid oberservation; something that 'flew' right over my head and got lost in the clutter of information that we're hearing!

Exactly. Laura and Krystal were "best friends" and their mothers had never met. Wow. While it's true that both little girls have been referred to as 'popular and well-recognized' in the vicinity, it's pretty amazing their moms had never met. Even 40 odd years ago, when I was that age, my mom never met ALL my best (and or school) friends and their parents ... but she certainly knew the families, addresses and/or the moms of my regular buddies.

I think the article read that this was the first time they had met SINCE the murder. I thought I had also read that the girls regularly spent the night at each other's house. I think the mothers knew each other. I will go back and find where I read that.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

My son is 9. This coincidentally happened in my home not too long ago. My son knows where my husband and I keep our stash of cash /............/ and he truely had no concept of how much money that was. So maybe the little girls didnt either. A older child would do like you are saying, take maybe a $5. In 2nd grade they are really just starting to learn value of money, at least in our school they are.

In light of the details we've heard about recently, lostfaith, I can't help but doubt Hobbs' accusations.

I go back to a previous comment I made ... once 'caught out', Hobbs clearly tried to justify his rage and brute force ... by somehow trying to make out his daughter 'deserved' his wrath ~ or at least: she's to BLAME for his anger. That she 'broke curfew', stole a large amount of money, refused to come home, was cheeky to him and that her little friend drew a knife on him.

So, all of THAT is supposed to somehow explain or justify his monstrous, murderous rage? HE is the sick one. Not Laura and Krystal! Yes, indeed, I stick to my gut feel on another issue: Laura had literally felt his wrath before. He's a known repeat-offender. He's renowned for uncontrollable anger and chronic rage. He's attacked the elderly, women, spouse and now these little children. He even admitted Laura had been a 'discipline problem'. Meaning? Ugh! Perish the thought.

Given their untimely and savage deaths, what these two little angels really deserve is our belief in their innocence. They did absolutely nothing wrong. Nothing. They were giggling and playing when the dark shadow of a total monster clouded their oblivion.

Krystal, poor fallen angel, was in the wrong place at the wrong time and her family are mortified. Her mom has to listen to that creep accuse Krystal of DRAWING A KNIFE on ... HIM?

Horrific.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I think the article read that this was the first time they had met SINCE the murder. I thought I had also read that the girls regularly spent the night at each other's house. I think the mothers knew each other. I will go back and find where I read that.

Thanks, lostfaith. <blushing> I stand corrected.

 

[OMGosh05]

My son is 9. This coincidentally happened in my home not too long ago. My son knows where my husband and I keep our stash of cash. He helped himself to $20. One day when I went to get some cash and there was none left, he happily offered to "loan" me some. lol...

Aww! Maybe it shouldn't but, this little story made me smile. Kids say/do the darndest things.

 

[lostfaith]

In light of the details we've heard about recently, lostfaith, I can't help but doubt Hobbs' accusations.

I go back to a previous comment I made ... once 'caught out', Hobbs clearly tried to justify his rage and brute force ... by somehow trying to make out his daughter 'deserved' his wrath ~ or at least: she's to BLAME for his anger. That she 'broke curfew', stole a large amount of money, refused to come home, was cheeky to him and that her little friend drew a knife on him.

So, all of THAT is supposed to somehow explain or justify his monstrous, murderous rage? HE is the sick one. Not Laura and Krystal! Yes, indeed, I stick to my gut feel on another issue: Laura had literally felt his wrath before. He's a known repeat-offender. He's renowned for uncontrollable anger and chronic rage. He's attacked the elderly, women, spouse and now these little children. He even admitted Laura had been a 'discipline problem'. Meaning? Ugh! Perish the thought.

Given their untimely and savage deaths, what these two little angels really deserve is our belief in their innocence. They did absolutely nothing wrong. Nothing. They were giggling and playing when the dark shadow of a total monster clouded their oblivion.

Krystal, poor fallen angel, was in the wrong place at the wrong time and her family are mortified. Her mom has to listen to that creep accuse Krystal of DRAWING A KNIFE on ... HIM?

Horrific.

I am not disagreeing with you at all! I am just saying that a 9 year old might not really grasp the value of certain denomination of bills. I think it is totally possible that he might have taken that money. Of course I dont blame the children. I am just as sickened of this as you are. I dont know about previous abuse, it is absolutely possible, but he had only been there for 2 weeks. I would imagine he was being on his best behaviour, til he totally blew. But I would not doublt maybe he abused her before he went to prison for those 2 years.

 

[lostfaith]

Thanks, lostfaith. <blushing> I stand corrected.

I see where you got confused, the article I found said the Tobias family had never met Hobbs before, not the mothers.

I came across this link that I must have missed before. Some interesting info. in it from some of his family members trying to make him sound like a hero for saving a niece at one time. With all the other links I must have missed it.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/051105_ns_zion.html

 

[lostfaith]

Aww! Maybe it shouldn't but, this little story made me smile. Kids say/do the darndest things.

It was hard to walk the fine line of scolding him for taking without asking, and for being generous enough for "loaning"

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I am not disagreeing with you at all! I am just saying that a 9 year old might not really grasp the value of certain denomination of bills. I think it is totally possible that he might have taken that money. Of course I dont blame the children. I am just as sickened of this as you are. I dont know about previous abuse, it is absolutely possible, but he had only been there for 2 weeks. I would imagine he was being on his best behaviour, til he totally blew. But I would not doublt maybe he abused her before he went to prison for those 2 years.

Yes, lostfaith, you're right! I concede. Perhaps my very unforgiving nature (of Hobbs and his d/murder) is clouding my general judgement on the reality of a child's true concept and 'value of money' as opposed to this monster's value of life social responsibility.

In this particular case, and if this family were living on the breadline, or just above it, I can't help but feel that Laura would have understood she had 'more than the norm.' If she'd stolen it and planned to runaway, I guess I'd be able to see more reason for her to have taken the money. (And even then, I'd have questioned why she'd want to runaway given the fact she'd only had her daddy back a few short weeks). The latter being not the case simple closes this debate!

Nevertheless, if I can give absolutely nothing towards the families grief, other than thoughts and prayers, I will give little Laura and Krystal the benefit of the doubt. (And I will only change tacks if their moms truly validate Hobbs' claims.)

Thanks for your input; it's kept me in-line. Lol, MY emotions are prejudiced right now. <and I best get back to work verrrrry soon>

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I see where you got confused, the article I found said the Tobias family had never met Hobbs before, not the mothers.

I came across this link that I must have missed before. Some interesting info. in it from some of his family members trying to make him sound like a hero for saving a niece at one time. With all the other links I must have missed it.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/051105_ns_zion.html

Ahhhh! Tku!

Haven't seen this, either. Pah... 'good man' ... indeed! Definitely not.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Argggh, lostfaith. That article .... saving his niece.

Ugh. Just like most perps' families: the Rossums, the Pee's and Rader's pastor & family ... etc, etc, etc. They're desperately trying to highlight one or some 'good' thing their perverted relative did while hiding behind society.

Scott helping little old ladies and leaving fruit on their porch; Rader's 'Christianity'. Baloney. More like subliminal DENIAL simply to distance themselves from these monsters being a reflection on THEM. These killers are rotten seeds, all of them!

 

[richandfamous]

"Prosecutors say he became a suspect several hours after the girls were discovered when he somehow described the girls' wounds after he claimed never to have been within 20 feet of either corpse."

"He gave a full oral statement. He then signed a statement as to what had happened, and then he gave a videotaped statement as well," said Pavletic."

"ABC 7 has learned that police have recovered what they believe is physical evidence, including blood-stained clothing that will link Hobbs to the murders"

that is all pretty damning evidence...sheila!

Will she stand by her man???


http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/051105_ns_zion.html

 

[golfmom]

For those that are interested this paper is going to have the best local coverage.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/top/w11girls.htm
.........
"According to police reports, Laura's mother, Sheila K. Hollabaugh, 29, in filing a missing person report with police, told police that she had grounded her daughter for a week for taking $40 from her wallet. The mother also contended that her daughter spent the money with Krystal at a store, according to the police report.

Hollabaugh filed the missing person report with police Sunday night after her daughter failed to come home. In talking to the police, she said she thought that her daughter could be with Krystal. She told police that there was no fight that day between mother and daughter that would have "led her to run away." She added that earlier in the day they had gone kite-flying at Lake Michigan."

But as a condition for ending her grounding, she told police, she had cautioned Laura "not to hang out with Krystal."

Krystal's mother, Marina Tobias, 41, apparently did not file a missing person report when her daughter failed to come home late that evening. Police went to the Tobias house to inquire about Krystal's whereabouts after Laura's mother reported her daughter missing."
.......

 

[golfmom]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=47527

Investigators believe within the past two weeks Laura took about $40 from her mother’s purse and was grounded for two weeks, Pavletic said.

Her mother lifted the restriction Sunday, a day before the term was to have run out, a decision Pavletic said Hobbs did not agree with.

“The defendant stated that he believed the mother allowed the kids to do whatever they want,” Pavletic said. “Laura and Krystal had left the house around 3 p.m. on their bikes, and sometime after 4 p.m. the defendant went looking for them.”

Hobbs told police he was aware the girls were fond of the bike path in Zion’s Beulah Park, and found them there sometime before 7 p.m. Sunday.

 

[golfmom]

Will she stand by her man???


http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/051105_ns_zion.html

The ABC I-Team examined Hobbs' six-inch thick police file. Most are aggravated assaults committed while in drunken fits of rage. While Hobbs attacked friends, strangers and police officers, many of the charges list Sheila Hollabaugh as the victim of beatings by Hobbs. Hollabaugh is the mother of Hobbs' three children -- one of whom he allegedly stabbed to death on Mother's Day.

Wichita police say women were frequently targets of Hobbs' rage.

The I-Team has learned that it was on a rundown Wichita Falls street in 1990 that Hobbs was arrested for his first knifing offense. It was the result of an alcohol-fueled quarrel over somebody burning rubber with his car.

According to his police file, then-19-year-old Hobbs was wearing a pink bandana when he produced a wooden handle hunting knife and plunged the five-inch blade into his landlord's gut and then stated, according to witnesses, "I'm not going to stab you, I'm going to kill you." The victim lived.

...........

The article goes on to quote Hobb's relatives in TX talking about what a nice guy he is and how he saved a child's life.

 

[nanandjim]

I believe that Hobbs went to the park with the knife and intended to do bodily harm. I do believe that he punched both girls in the face when he met up with them. They didn't have a chance. He incapitated both of them immediately and then killed them in a rage. It is absolutely disgusting that he feels that it is necessary to make up the stories that he is about the two little girls.

His daughter is so small. If she truly refused to go with him (which I don't believe), he could have picked her up and carried her or he could have gone home and phoned the police to handle the situation.

I think that the daughter knew how violent he was and would have been scared to death of him. She would have gone home, IMO. I just can't see her saying "No" to this guy.

 

[golfmom]

I believe that Hobbs went to the park with the knife and intended to do bodily harm. I do believe that he punched both girls in the face when he met up with them. They didn't have a chance. He incapitated both of them immediately and then killed them in a rage. It is absolutely disgusting that he feels that it is necessary to make up the stories that he is about the two little girls.

His daughter is so small. If she truly refused to go with him (which I don't believe), he could have picked her up and carried her or he could have gone home and phoned the police to handle the situation.

I think that the daughter knew how violent he was and would have been scared to death of him. She would have gone home, IMO. I just can't see her saying "No" to this guy.

It's hard to say when we only have his statement to go by. She could have said F@ck U and still didn't deserve what he did. I do think it's perfectly plausible that she did say "no" to him. He hadn't been in her life for over 2 years, before that only sporadically, he didn't support the family, and there is a whole history of violence. Her mom took her off her restriction, so really who was he to demand that she return home?

Emotionally & behaviorally this girl may very well have had *issues.* Her dad just had bigger ones. And really ... who's to blame her if she was disrespectful to her father? Why he thought he could come in a *fix* her when he had pretty much been an absent or abusive father her entire life I'll never understand.

 

[Sheromom]

Krystal's family STILL had not filed a missing person's report at 9:00 pm! WHAT is with these people? I would have been hysterical by then.

 

[nanandjim]

Krystal's family STILL had not filed a missing person's report at 9:00 pm! WHAT is with these people? I would have been hysterical by then.

Were they out looking for her?? If so, I can see the reluctance of some people to get the police involved for fear of a false alarm. Perhaps, when they had checked everywhere for her, they decided it was time to call the police.

 

[Sheromom]

Were they out looking for her?? If so, I can see the reluctance of some people to get the police involved for fear of a false alarm. Perhaps, when they had checked everywhere for her, they decided it was time to call the police.

I don't think so because the police went to THEM.

 

[IdahoMom]

It's hard to say when we only have his statement to go by. She could have said F@ck U and still didn't deserve what he did. I do think it's perfectly plausible that she did say "no" to him. He hadn't been in her life for over 2 years, before that only sporadically, he didn't support the family, and there is a whole history of violence. Her mom took her off her restriction, so really who was he to demand that she return home?

Emotionally & behaviorally this girl may very well have had *issues.* Her dad just had bigger ones. And really ... who's to blame her if she was disrespectful to her father? Why he thought he could come in a *fix* her when he had pretty much been an absent or abusive father her entire life I'll never understand.

EXCELLENt post, Golfmom! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: