IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

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I think it's very possible he saw the killer leave. Not only his vehicle, but it is quite possible he actually passed him on foot without even realizing he was the killer. Watching these videos makes me believe that this was probably a robbery and he was probably looking for money. What we can never figure out is why he didn't leave. Maybe his plan was to rob every customer who came in the store and he figured as long as the women were bound and gagged they were not a threat to him and could not call police. Maybe the accomplice, and I'm convinced there was an accomplice, was not only looking out for the police, but maybe alerting him of possible customers about to enter the store.

I would think if the Target call came in around 10:30, the officer probably arrived about three minutes later. The accomplice sees the police car and thinking what if a customer goes into the LB store and manages to escape and flags down this officer. At that point, this person in the SUV tries to tell him let's get out of here as it is too risky now with a police officer only a couple of football fields away. This is most likely the reason he left that back room, because something was going on out front and he went to check it out. By this time RM gets her hands free, calls 911 and we know the rest. He probably bolts out the back exit, goes around to the front and casually gets into this SUV, or possibly his own car and leaves before anyone realizes who he was.

I do not believe all four customers were in the store when he arrived. I believe maybe one was in there when he arrived and another came in shortly after. The last two probably came in one at a time over the next few minutes. I know there was a report he may have fought with one of them. Maybe he didn't expect any customers to be there at that time due to the early hour and the bad weather. Me living in Florida, I'm not too familiar with how snow affects morning shopping, but I would think if it was really cold and snowy there would likely be less customers at that time of day.
 
Funny you mention you are from Florida. I grew up not far from where the crime happened. I actually had just moved back to the area in January of 2008 after living in Florida for 18 years. That is why I remember that winter so well. I was freezing as I was no longer used to the cold weather. Hell I'm still not used to it!

Having said that, the people up here are a pretty hardy group and the cold weather really doesn't affect or stop them from going about a normal day. I don't remember it snowing that morning, maybe some flurries but it had recently snowed pretty good a day or two before.

I was at a store across (Market Place Dr not Frontage Rd) from the Target that morning at about 10:10 A.M., 10:15 A.M. and there were a lot of people shopping, a lot of cars. I was just one of hundreds of people there that morning shopping.

I read somewhere that Ms Woolfolk was the one he scuffled with and that when the family received her body it was evident from her injuries that she had struggled with him. One of the press releases found on the Tinley Park LE website (same one with the 911 call you cited) said he fondled one of the women as well.

I think my problem with this whole thing is is that I'm a logical thinker and sometimes things like this defy logic. My mind just can't think like that and I try to make sense out of something that you just can't possibly make sense of. Was it a robbery, a hit or just a drug crazed nut who did this??

Look what happened down in your neck of the woods yesterday in Sebring. That creep goes into a bank and shoots 5 women dead for no reason what so ever. I don't think he was even there to rob the bank.... I just don't get it. The only good thing is that they caught that idiot right away. But here we are 11 years later and still nothing!

Always, this time of year when it is snowing, freezing and gray outside I really start thinking about this. It really bothers me that this has not been solved and I really feel so bad for the families.
 
Yes, it was Ms. Woolfolk that he struggled with. There was thought that during that exchange some of his DNA transferred to her. And in the video you shared above, the lead detective hinted, but did not confirm, that they have his DNA. If so, I am hoping they take a page from the state of California and the Golden State Killer case and try to track him down through his relatives. I'm certain that they also have his fingerprints. He left shell casings behind as well as duct tape. This is one reason I believe they may have a person in their sights and are just trying to put the last pieces together. I am also hoping the 11 year anniversary will bring us some more updates.
 
Yes, good thought about running the DNA through the different ancestry DNA databases to see if there is a familial DNA match out there.

I really don't' see why LE just doesn't come out and confirm that they have his DNA. Its not like he can do something to change his DNA.

I doubt this was his first crime. I would think he has some kind of record. In a interview with the detectives in one of my prior posts one of the detectives said "he may be sitting in a jail somewhere". I'm not sure of the law in all states but isn't DNA collected from anyone who is convicted of a criminal offense?

Anyone know how they came up with 10:08 A.M. being the time the killer entered the store? I was watching an interview with LE and the camera panned on a white board in the LE office. It showed it very briefly but on the white board were the enhanced NASA surveillance photos of the vehicles in the parking lot, however the ones shown on the white board were time stamped 10:08 A.M. not the photos they have posted to the public time stamped 10:38 A.M. through 10:46 A.M. The detective is pointing to the photos. I wonder if the dark small SUV is seen in the 10:08 A.M. photo as well.
 
I believe the survivor gave the timeline for the most part. Other than the 911 call coming in at 10:45, LE is relying on Martha for the timeline. How accurate her timeline is is another story. Was the clock she was looking at completely accurate. Could she have been a little confused after going through such a traumatic incident that she was was off on her timeline. Unfortunately, she is the only living witness and there is no one to corroborate her story. The description of the suspect is also based almost exclusively on her account. There has been speculation on many message boards that she was off on her description, some even questioning if the killer was even a man. I believe based on what I have read and the voice on the 911 call that this was indeed a man.

I don't believe he is in jail. They have his fingerprints, and I think they have his DNA. If he ever gets arrested for a serious crime and is fingerprinted, he should be done. I have a feeling he has crawled under a rock somewhere and knows any slip up could put him behind bars. If they have his DNA, that is probably their best shot, and for all we know, they could be tracking someone waiting for him to leave something behind with prints or DNA.
 
The timeline might also be from phone records from when RM called the other store about the delivery. I have not seen one interview or newspaper article that reports that RM made a call to another store in regard to the delivery. I've only heard this on pod casts. Does anyone know where that information came from?

There is also the matter of the $100,000 reward. That is a pretty hefty reward. People have turned in people for a lot less. Here locally it has stayed on peoples minds but I'm not sure of the rest of the nation. There have been no Datelines, 48 Hours type of shows about this case that would bring it to a national level. There was a Most Wanted episode about it but that aired not long after it happened. The murderer may be and is probably not from the area and those that know him and might know about what he did may not be aware of the reward money. They need to get the word out nationwide instead of just doing local news interviews on the anniversaries.
 
I moved to the area after it happened. It amazes me that no other traffic camera, business camera, or toll road caught a vehicle that matches this description. Maybe they did and we don’t know it.

I also don’t think it was a hit. My gut feeling is that he would have been in and out quicker if it was a hit.

It also makes me wonder how he selected a store with no security cameras inside. Did he know that store didn’t have security cameras. Did he get lucky? I’m going to assume they checked out the employees at that Lane Bryant. I wonder if they checked out the employees and their family/friends at other Lane Bryant’s in the area. They could have known that this store didn’t have security cameras. Also the delivery drivers & their friends/family. My gut tells me he knew that store didn’t have cameras since he didn’t wear a mask & stayed so long.

My husband thinks it just someone who did something really stupid & random and got really lucky but I think there is more to it. He’s gotta have some connection.
 
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Your husband just may be right!! Been thinking about this for almost 11 years now and have to think maybe I've over analyzed it!!!

I sometime wonder if he was just on I-80, saw the sign for Brookside and was in need of some cash, got off the Interstate onto Harlem and made his way to Frontage Road and choose Lane Bryant simply because it is one of the first stores. I mean there was some carelessness there. I know that at the end he had to be in a big hurry to get out of there but he didn't even pick up the shell casings.

But then I think, does he always carry a roll of duct tape. Does he always have a believable delivery slip (paper work) and so on and so on....
 
I have been wondering for years why we don't see this case on TV, such as 48 Hours or Dateline or even ID. Heck, the Las Cruces Bowling Alley Massacre even got a documentary movie, which I thought was a good idea. This story needs to be put out to the nation more, as this person could be anywhere now.

I don't believe he knew whether there were cameras in the store until he walked in. I think the delivery angle was just a ruse to give him time to scope the place out and check for cameras. Once he was comfortable there was no cameras, he announced the robbery. Had there been cameras, I think he takes the paperwork back and leaves the store with nobody none the wiser. I think it is totally possible that he used the delivery ruse at other places and he possibly robbed other stores without ever getting caught. It's just this particular morning, things did not go as planned. We still do not know the true sequence of events as far as when the four customers entered the store. Did they enter one at a time and how long in between?

I am sure he set out that morning to commit a robbery and he was prepared with the duct tape and paperwork, along with his Glock 40. I think he changes his hairstyle and maybe alters his appearance just enough that other victims do not recognize the sketch, which is probably accurate, but not 100% accurate.
 
So here is a interesting article I found. It kind of goes to my theory that other shoppers must have tried to enter the store while the killer was in the back with the victims. Again, there was some kind of $9 promotion going on that day. See article here:

Investigators meet about Lane Bryant murders

Makes me wonder if she is the driver of the SUV arriving in front of the store at 10:39 A.M. and leaving at 10:45 A.M. The article said she had her hand on the door but at last minute decided not to go in. It does not say if she tried to open the door at all leaving me still wondering if he had one of the employees lock the front door or was it left unlocked.

I still think other shoppers had to have either tried to enter the store and it was locked or did enter (if left unlocked) the store while the killer was in the back. 10:08 A.M to 10:45 A.M. is a long time not to have anymore customers. If you think about it 4 customers entered the store before he took them to the back. Is the scenario that there were just 4 shoppers in total and he takes them to the back just before killing them. In other words he hung out in the front of the store for the majority of the time.

I have to agree with jbirner, we just don't know the true sequence of events!
 
Anyone remember how much publicity this case got? I watched crime shows just about every night back then and I don’t remember hearing about it. I have found one transcript of a Nancy Grace show where she discusssed it. There could be more that I didn’t find. The fact that no one turned him in for reward money or a lighter sentence after 11 years makes me think he may not be from the area. It would have been so important to get his mo out and to see if anyone that worked retail recalls anyone attempting a suspicious delivery. Surely if he was scouting stores that lane Bryant wasn’t his first place to checkout. Idk just a thought.

I also wonder if he locked the door at some point. The only problem with that is anyone that has worked retail knows that a some customers will wait, bang on door, call store or corporate if the doors are locked during normal hours. I also wonder what his plan was if several customers had entered at the same time. Also if he thought about what if one of the ladies had a husband waiting on her in the car. My husband will do that in strip malls.

I would also love to know if he left the delivery papers and if they got any good evidence from them. Also I would love to know about the duct tape. Where did it come from? They should have a good idea where he purchased it.
 
When it happened it was all over the news, night and day. But that was here locally, not sure about the rest of the country. Like I noted before, the only national exposure I'm aware of is the Most Wanted episode that aired not long after the crime and as you have noted Nancy Grace.

I did see an interview with the detectives that they did reach out to a vast area of retailers in the U.S. to see if they had robberies with someone using the similar ruse of wanting to make a delivery. They had hoped that there may have been similar robberies that did not go so horribly wrong in the end. However they did not make public the result of this audit.
 
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I haven't been to Brookside Markerplace or Tinley for at least 5 years. I moved just over the state line in NW IN. I was there that morning around 10:15. Target parking lot was not filled to capacity but it was fairly busy like a typical winter weekend. It was a cold gray day but not as cold as it is today that's for sure!!!
 
flgrl017 said:
I moved to the area after it happened. It amazes me that no other traffic camera, business camera, or toll road caught a vehicle that matches this description. Maybe they did and we don’t know it.

I also don’t think it was a hit. My gut feeling is that he would have been in and out quicker if it was a hit.

It also makes me wonder how he selected a store with no security cameras inside. Did he know that store didn’t have security cameras. Did he get lucky? I’m going to assume they checked out the employees at that Lane Bryant. I wonder if they checked out the employees and their family/friends at other Lane Bryant’s in the area. They could have known that this store didn’t have security cameras. Also the delivery drivers & their friends/family. My gut tells me he knew that store didn’t have cameras since he didn’t wear a mask & stayed so long.

My husband thinks it just someone who did something really stupid & random and got really lucky but I think there is more to it. He’s gotta have some connection.
Click to expand...

We moved from that area less than a year before the murders. It did receive widespread coverage, and it was so shocking because although I hadn’t shopped in that particular store I was often at other stores in the area, including Target.

Somehow I had thought it would be quickly solved. A crime in daylight, in an area where surely someone would have seen him.
 
As someone who lives far away from the Chicago area, Tampa, Fl to be exact. There is very little national coverage. Over the last 6 years or so when I first started reading about this case, I have been waiting for some kind of show on ID, 20/20 or Dateline or People Magazine Investigates. Nothing but crickets from these shows. Most other mass murders (Las Cruces, Austin Yogurt) have had books written and documentaries made, along with several episodes of shows on ID and also Unsolved Mysteries. True Crime Garage is the first time I have heard any kind of lengthy discussion from someone outside the Chicago area. Maybe the 11 year anniversary will bring some new information.

I have never read anything about whether door was locked. If he was looking for a big score, I think he would most likely keep it open so more victims with cash could come in. That's assuming this was a robbery. I think there was one, maybe two customers in the store when he walked in and the others staggered in over the next few minutes. He was probably going back and forth between front and back and I would bet he had a spotter outside, be it in that SUV or somewhere else. Suppose someone walks by and notices an empty front of the store and calls police.

It's an eerie thought that someone almost walked into this near the ending. This could be the SUV driver they were originally looking for and she turned out to be a potential customer.
 
Yes there was two ways in, marketplace road and frontage road.

Interesting article, especially the part about Mokena ramp search. Wonder what lead them to search that area. As far as ponds I'm not sure, you'd think they would be frozen over at that time of year. I do remember a pond across the target parking lot, if you were facing petsmart. It's like a small retention pond.

Also that was the first I heard about his finger print on the door although I'm not sure how they can claim it's his. It's a store door and a lot of people would have left finger prints on the door...
 
Jbiner I lived in your area for many, many years. Off Dale Mabry in Northdale and off Lutz lake Fern near Cheval and then in New Port Richey, Trinity area. Small world!!
 
Wow, definitely a small world. I live in the Town and Country area, Waters Ave and the Veterans Expressway.

Interesting article from early on. I didn't know the fingerprint was from the door. I was thinking the shell casings were where they would find the most useful prints. Along with the duct tape. I'm thinking the murder weapon is at the bottom of a lake somewhere and may never be found.
 
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