Here is my theory on the timeline. Approx 10:08 he comes in store, claims he had delivery. During the next ten minutes or so, RM is probably reading the paperwork and not certain about this delivery. She calls a store to verify. By now it is probably around 10:18. This is when I think he pulls the gun. At this time there is 2 employees and 2 customers. By the time he gets all four in the back, bound with tape and collected all belongings, it is closer to 10:30. Sometime around here, 2 more customers walk in and now he has to get them in the back, bound with duct tape. He fights with CW. By now it is probably around 10:35 or so. He calls his lookout/getaway driver to see where he is. The driver pulls in front of store a few minutes later. Probably tells him there is a cop in the parking lot nearby. As he is getting ready to make escape, he starts wondering to his accomplice what do we do with hostages. RM probably hears this and frantically gets her hands free. Thinking the lives of her and her fellow hostages are in danger, she calls 911. We know the rest of the story. This is just my theory and not based on anything from LE or from witness.
IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008
- Thread starter SuziQ
- Start date
Here is my theory on the timeline. Approx 10:08 he comes in store, claims he had delivery. During the next ten minutes or so, RM is probably reading the paperwork and not certain about this delivery. She calls a store to verify. By now it is probably around 10:18. This is when I think he pulls the gun. At this time there is 2 employees and 2 customers. By the time he gets all four in the back, bound with tape and collected all belongings, it is closer to 10:30. Sometime around here, 2 more customers walk in and now he has to get them in the back, bound with duct tape. He fights with CW. By now it is probably around 10:35 or so. He calls his lookout/getaway driver to see where he is. The driver pulls in front of store a few minutes later. Probably tells him there is a cop in the parking lot nearby. As he is getting ready to make escape, he starts wondering to his accomplice what do we do with hostages. RM probably hears this and frantically gets her hands free. Thinking the lives of her and her fellow hostages are in danger, she calls 911. We know the rest of the story. This is just my theory and not based on anything from LE or from witness.
I feel like if he didn’t know the area he would tried to use the main entrance while fleeing and created a major scene in that log jam -or- he would have ended up panicking in the back by Kohl’s trying to find an exit. I think he utilized the less used entrance/exit while fleeing. When I first started shopping at this complex I found it a bit confusing to navigate.
I think this sounds accurate. I noticed in podcast I linked it said he waited 15 minutes. No clue where they got that info. If he waited 10-15 minutes before announcing the robbery he really didn’t have as much time as people think. He technically didn’t spend all the 36 minutes he was inside “robbing” the store. It would be more like 21-26 minutes.
I will admit I know nothing of the area having never been there. I'm thinking in their panicked state, knowing the cavalry was descending upon them, they were probably deviating from their exit plan, if they had one. We know now they didn't plan for a 911 call or even the presence of a LEO in the parking lot. We don't know if the police knew the description, maybe RM was able to give a description before she was caught by the shooter. We know by the time "Martha" gave them the description, they were long gone.
I think that if they didn’t know how to get out of the shopping center quickly we’d have more witnesses and better descriptions of the vehicles. It seems they just disappeared into thin air without creating any attention.
They knew about the green beads when they questioned the guy in the target lot. I think it’s likely Martha had the strength to talk to them shortly after it happened.
If they went right on 191st, it turns into the Mokena jurisdiction very fast. They may not have even passed any cops.
(Black x on map is approximate location of crime).
Attachments
Most likely, the shooter got into the getaway vehicle and hid out of sight. The driver, who might even be the mastermind of this, knew the area well and knew nobody would be looking for him/her. They probably just drove natural out of the area without detection. The cops, being focused on the store itself, wouldn't be looking for any vehicles at that moment.
That’s what I think too. The driver knew the area and was able to remain calm enough not to attract attention.
Just a couple things here, I am very familiar with this area, I've worked in this area for over 10 years and travel via 191st and Harlem for the last 5 years at least, passing this site every day:
1) There is no way he could have parked on the south ramp that leads out to Harlem Avenue. Way too much traffic, even in the mornings. Also, fairly certain there was snow on the ground, so his prints would have been visible, since there was grass between the ramp and where the mall was located.
2) I agree he would have had to exit the parking lot via Market Drive. After that though, it gets tricky to say if he traveled west down 191st or east towards Harlem. Either route would have been risky for him to take. 191st to La Grange is a 3 mile drive with multiple stop lights and is obviously a busy street, he would have risked being seen by responding officers or random drivers in general, as it is a busy street. There are a few businesses on that street, including the Tinley Park Fire Station (which I assume was there at that time, but I could be wrong) and a couple mini-malls, so he also might have risked being caught on camera.
If he traveled east towards Harlem and the 80 on-ramp, he would have risked driving past the crime scene and responding officers on Harlem (one of which said he was traveling south on Harlem, fuzzy on the details but I believe it was the second responding officer, with the first responding officer being the one that was already in the parking lot).
3) Just my opinion on this case: I feel like the murderer had to have known the area. This wasn't random -- the location of the store essentially proves this. Back then, the mall was even sparser, and this Lane Bryant (TJ Maxx now) sat spack dab in the middle and rear of the parking lot. Yes, it is close to I-80, but the location of this particular store isn't convenient. It was chosen for a reason and the perp knew it was there; and how to get there.
Second, this is pure speculation, but I've always thought that the perp may have worked as a delivery or Fed-Ex driver in the past. Perhaps this was why he was familiar with the area in general.
1) There is no way he could have parked on the south ramp that leads out to Harlem Avenue. Way too much traffic, even in the mornings. Also, fairly certain there was snow on the ground, so his prints would have been visible, since there was grass between the ramp and where the mall was located.
2) I agree he would have had to exit the parking lot via Market Drive. After that though, it gets tricky to say if he traveled west down 191st or east towards Harlem. Either route would have been risky for him to take. 191st to La Grange is a 3 mile drive with multiple stop lights and is obviously a busy street, he would have risked being seen by responding officers or random drivers in general, as it is a busy street. There are a few businesses on that street, including the Tinley Park Fire Station (which I assume was there at that time, but I could be wrong) and a couple mini-malls, so he also might have risked being caught on camera.
If he traveled east towards Harlem and the 80 on-ramp, he would have risked driving past the crime scene and responding officers on Harlem (one of which said he was traveling south on Harlem, fuzzy on the details but I believe it was the second responding officer, with the first responding officer being the one that was already in the parking lot).
3) Just my opinion on this case: I feel like the murderer had to have known the area. This wasn't random -- the location of the store essentially proves this. Back then, the mall was even sparser, and this Lane Bryant (TJ Maxx now) sat spack dab in the middle and rear of the parking lot. Yes, it is close to I-80, but the location of this particular store isn't convenient. It was chosen for a reason and the perp knew it was there; and how to get there.
Second, this is pure speculation, but I've always thought that the perp may have worked as a delivery or Fed-Ex driver in the past. Perhaps this was why he was familiar with the area in general.
SpringDonut77
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Article in the Chicago Tribune on the 14th anniversary
Tinley Park police put fresh eyes on case, remain confident the 2008 slayings of 5 women in Lane Bryant store will be solved
Potential good news: "Two new detectives with the department were assigned in December to the case and they’re reexamining the evidence collected since the Feb. 2, 2008, shooting deaths at the Brookside Marketplace store southwest of Harlem Avenue and Interstate 80."
Tinley Park police put fresh eyes on case, remain confident the 2008 slayings of 5 women in Lane Bryant store will be solved
Potential good news: "Two new detectives with the department were assigned in December to the case and they’re reexamining the evidence collected since the Feb. 2, 2008, shooting deaths at the Brookside Marketplace store southwest of Harlem Avenue and Interstate 80."
14 years. Hopefully this is good news.
IceIce9
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“Fresh eyes” is hopeful, but as always, I wonder why they wait so long to put “fresh eyes” on the case.
14 years is a long time.
If I read correctly, the lead detective has retired. I think fresh eyes is a good thing, maybe a fresh perspective can lead to resolution. I would not be surprised at all if when all is said and done that they had the name of the killer/killers all along. Hopefully they move forward with DNA technology.
Gloomy Bear
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Thinking of the victims, hopefully this case gets solved soon, it has been TOO long the area has lived with this killer on the loose!
airportwoman
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I've always believed that it was either a police officer, or someone who has an alliance with them.
Feb 3 2022
Lane Bryant murders remain unsolved, but 2 new detectives assigned to case
''Seventy-five hundred leads have come in over the years. Working with the sole survivor, police were able to develop a composite of what they think the shooter looks like. And two new detectives were recently assigned to take a fresh look at the case.
"We're hoping they develop something," Rafferty said. "We hope something was missed and if not maybe today we'll get a tip that will help us out and get us going."
It is that same hope that keeps the victims families going, even after all this time.
"I have faith on someone doing the right thing someday," Hamilton said. "It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow."
Investigators do believe someone is out there that knows something -- someone who maybe didn't feel comfortable talking back then, but who will someday come forward. A 100,000 reward is still being offered for any information that leads to an arrest.
''Seventy-five hundred leads have come in over the years. Working with the sole survivor, police were able to develop a composite of what they think the shooter looks like. And two new detectives were recently assigned to take a fresh look at the case.
"We're hoping they develop something," Rafferty said. "We hope something was missed and if not maybe today we'll get a tip that will help us out and get us going."
It is that same hope that keeps the victims families going, even after all this time.
"I have faith on someone doing the right thing someday," Hamilton said. "It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow."
Investigators do believe someone is out there that knows something -- someone who maybe didn't feel comfortable talking back then, but who will someday come forward. A 100,000 reward is still being offered for any information that leads to an arrest.
willowsongs
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This case haunts me every single time I read about it or see it in the local news. I work in one of the store fronts directly beside the then Lane Bryant. Someone definitely has to know something with regards to location and to the atmosphere of the area.
I worked retail for over five years in a strip mall. Our deliveries came in through the back door not the front. There was a buzzer at the back door to announce their arrival. I don't know how LB did it. However, if the killer came in through the front door, it may have been to get them to open the back door. It may not have been just cash he came in for. LB clothing may have been part of his plan. Grabbing clothes off the racks and taking them out the back door wouldn't have taken much time. The clothes could have been sold at flea markets, etc. Or, he could have had a buyer that would take all of them. The 911 call may have cancelled this plan.