GUILTY IL - Laquan McDonald, 17, fatally shot, Chicago PD charged, 20 Oct 2014 -J. VanDyke GUILTY*

[KateB]

Each of our special interests deserves it's own sub-forum (IMO), but in the meantime, we actually sort of kind of already have something similar.

Tags 101:

Tags can be used to group demographics together and added by anyone. Members have already tagged many of the LE misconduct cases together with the 'police brutality' tag search:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/tags.php?tag=police+brutality

Bookmark the link (not the results page since it is a temp page) if you'd like to view an index of police brutality cases on Websleuths.
Please add the tag to any that are not tagged.

 

[Cubby]

I have read a few of those positive stories and thought about posting a positive comment in a few but after seeing a few jeers about members not responding I thought I wouldn't be taken seriously. I do appreciate the positive side of policing.
I think with so many stories of late it would be worthwhile to have a section dedicated to the subject of LE wrongdoing but I understand that some would have a problem with that and agree it may be difficult for the mods. IMO

WS is both a victim friendly forum and a LE friendly forum. Singling out LE, imo, would defeat the purpose of WS. I liken it to subforums divided into race, religion, etc. Perhaps a thread prefix for LEO committed crimes within the crimes in the news forum would be a better choice for WS, based on the forums principles.

Don't let any jeering bother you, just scroll and roll as we say.

 

[Cubby]

So where he was working was in a way foreign to him? I wonder how that would affect his ability to see the people where he worked as different from him, and how that might affect his treatment of them.

Very foreign. Just look up the demographics for Burr Ridge and Hinsdale.

 

[Cubby]

Tags work well, too. I hadn't seen KateB's post when I posted.

 

[KateB]

Brandon's latest has been published in the Guardian opinion section:

I filed suit for the Laquan McDonald police video. Its mundanity shocked me
by: Brandon Smith
Contact author @muckrakery
Wednesday 25 November 2015 12.15 EST
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...police-video-release-its-mundanity-shocked-me

The video seems so everyday, so scarily commonplace. And coming after a stream of similar images from across the country – of Sandra Bland, of Tamir Rice, of Walter Scott – its significance should not be. I want it to have meaning. Laquan’s death has the potential to have meaning – particularly for other people of color, who should not have to be afraid of our police. As the statistics stand, they have reason to be.

 

[PeregrineFaulkner]

That's not the way it works.They feel powerless,victimized and disrespected,they're not interested being told to sit down,shut up and play by the rules.They're inundated by music other media that glorifies materialism,violence and rebellion a far cry from any recipe for law enforcement avoidance.

Well, America *is* a deeply capitalist nation born of rebellion.

 

[bluesneakers]

Very foreign. Just look up the demographics for Burr Ridge and Hinsdale.

I looked them up. What a difference. It must have been quite a culture shock at first.

 

[Montjoy]

Very foreign. Just look up the demographics for Burr Ridge and Hinsdale.

Well, I don't know that the differences should be seen as an excuse for his behavior (not suggesting that you are saying they should be). If he couldn't adapt to new environments, perhaps he was not qualified for his job. Myself, I've taken on jobs in which I've had virtually no personal experience with my target population -- but I did a heck of a lot of research beforehand, and I was looking forward to my work, and I had a lot of experience with gaining rapport with people who were different from myself. I wonder if any of this applied to this LEO.

 

[Yvettea]

Any chance Van Dyke knew it was McDonald who was the subject of the call? He drove there directly siren wailing, followed McDonald briefly, then shot him almost immediately after exiting the car. Maybe they had prior differences.

 

[Cubby]

Well, I don't know that the differences should be seen as an excuse for his behavior (not suggesting that you are saying they should be). If he couldn't adapt to new environments, perhaps he was not qualified for his job. Myself, I've taken on jobs in which I've had virtually no personal experience with my target population -- but I did a heck of a lot of research beforehand, and I was looking forward to my work, and I had a lot of experience with gaining rapport with people who were different from myself. I wonder if any of this applied to this LEO.

Not an excuse for his behavior, just my bias on why he might be a product of his environment and how that might influence his perception of residents in the community he works.

 

[fizzypop]

I fully agree with your second paragraph.

Regarding the first paragraph,, maybe it's a regional thing, but I don't see anything threatening about his gait. He appears to be walking confidently and with a purpose, imo.

As far as Van Dykes background. I hadn't planned on mentioning this but will. His upbringing in Burr Ridge and Hinsdale are two very very expensive areas to live. In general, and I know this is a stereotype, but these are areas I would consider more likely to come out with the white privilege attitude. I couldn't imagine the background and lifestyle Van Dyke came from to be more opposite of the areas he was working in. Based on these murder charges and his history of misconduct complaints, I have to wonder if a pattern exists among officers who are the bad apples.

I can really see how these two worlds, where Van Dyke was raised and where he worked as being like oil and water. It makes me go hmmmm.

BBM

I agree with that, it's the fact that he's clutching a knife in his hand while walking with a purpose is that's scary to me.

 

[fizzypop]

JMO but I think LE killing and brutalizing civilians - no matter if they are unarmed, mentally ill, innocent, or under the age of 18 - is 100% on them. Especially the coverup that inevitably comes later. No one made them hide this video for a year. Cops shoot, kill, look away, pretend nothing happened. And then they get support from the public. That's the problem.

I don't know who was hiding this video but I'd say it goes up higher than the police department. The city is who paid out the money to the family and convinced them not to talk about it. It's not on the PD imo. Of course it's on them if they didn't take action on the cop after seeing what he did and continued to let him get paid, but there were many people at higher and higher levels who also saw it and could have done something.


My other issue is that everyone seems to think that most cops are bad and that these things happen all the time. Only .05% of black people killed are killed by police, and not even all of them white police, plus you have to consider that the majority of those .05% are in fact justified. Add to that the fact that more white people are actually shot by police and I hardly think it's just something to lay on the shoulders of LE. It goes much farther than that and I think it's unfortunate that many people see just the shootings and what the media reports and all of a sudden everything is LE's fault.

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't know who was hiding this video but I'd say it goes up higher than the police department. The city is who paid out the money to the family and convinced them not to talk about it. It's not on the PD imo. Of course it's on them if they didn't take action on the cop after seeing what he did and continued to let him get paid, but there were many people at higher and higher levels who also saw it and could have done something.


My other issue is that everyone seems to think that most cops are bad and that these things happen all the time. Only .05% of black people killed are killed by police, and not even all of them white police, plus you have to consider that the majority of those .05% are in fact justified. Add to that the fact that more white people are actually shot by police and I hardly think it's just something to lay on the shoulders of LE. It goes much farther than that and I think it's unfortunate that many people see just the shootings and what the media reports and all of a sudden everything is LE's fault.

Sure, more white people are shot by police BUT white people outnumber black people in the USA. Once you account for the difference it turns out police kill 2.58 White people per million, but they kill 6.2 Black people per million, and 2.96 Hispanic/Latino people per million.

And:
Black Americans killed by police twice as likely to be unarmed as white people

Black Americans are more than twice as likely to be unarmed when killed during encounters with police as white people, according to a Guardian investigation which found 102 of 464 people killed so far this year in incidents with law enforcement officers were not carrying weapons.

An analysis of public records, local news reports and Guardian reporting found that 32% of black people killed by police in 2015 were unarmed, as were 25% of Hispanic and Latino people, compared with 15% of white people killed

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/black-americans-killed-by-police-analysis

 

[magnolia]

BBM

I agree with that, it's the fact that he's clutching a knife in his hand while walking with a purpose is that's scary to me.

Knowing he had the hallucinogenic drug PCP in his system while clutching that knife is very scary.

PCP may cause acute anxiety and a feeling of impending doom; in others, paranoia and violent hostility, and in some, it may produce a psychoses indistinguishable from schizophrenia. Many believe PCP to be one of the most dangerous drugs of abuse.

http://www.drugs.com/illicit/pcp.html

 

[Yvettea]

Knowing he had the hallucinogenic drug PCP in his system while clutching that knife is very scary.



http://www.drugs.com/illicit/pcp.html

Shot 16 times? In the presence of other officers!

 

[Cubby]

BBM

I agree with that, it's the fact that he's clutching a knife in his hand while walking with a purpose is that's scary to me.

At the moment he was shot he was of no danger to any of the officers. A folded knife isn't a danger that calls for deadly force. Especially with someone walking away from the police.


The number of shots fired and the number of other officers present who did not feel they were in danger should make this case a slam dunk.

 

[Cubby]

Knowing he had the hallucinogenic drug PCP in his system while clutching that knife is very scary.



http://www.drugs.com/illicit/pcp.html

It was reported he had "trace" amounts of PCP in his system. Trace definition
https://www.google.com/search?q=def...droid-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Very small amounts, too small to be accurately measured. No where has it been stated he was under the influence at the time of the shooting.

 

[night train]

It looked bigger than a pocket knife and he was stalking down the street with a knife out and an obvious attitude, and he didn't follow orders to drop the weapon. He looked threatening (not to the officers, but in general) to me, the way he was walking, knife out, obviously with an attitude. Not saying he should have been shot for that but it's not as simple as some people are making it sound. He wasn't just walking down the sidewalk with a knife in his pocket. He was running in the middle of the street, knife out, after leaving the scene of a crime, and then didn't listen to officers telling him to put the knife down.

(edit and BBM by me)

What was the hurry? The police were all on the clock,they were getting paid,what's the rush to terminate a human being's life? It didn't matter if Laquan McDonald was waving a Samurai sword around,they had overwhelming firepower,they had it covered.The priority should have been de-escalation,no one on that street needed to die.

The irony here is that the Chicago Police approach is the way our military could and should be fighting wars but it's a disastrous way to police a community.

 

[fizzypop]

At the moment he was shot he was of no danger to any of the officers. A folded knife isn't a danger that calls for deadly force. Especially with someone walking away from the police.


The number of shots fired and the number of other officers present who did not feel they were in danger should make this case a slam dunk.

First of all, the knife was clearly not folded. You can see the glints of light off the blade in the video. It's definitely open. It also looks bigger than 3" but that's neither here nor there. I do agree that he was definitely NOT a threat to the officers at the point he was shot, I'm not debating that at all. The only reason I say the first shot was debatable is that the officer *could* have thought given his "determination" or "demeanor" whatever you want to call it, coupled with the knife out and possibly other aspects of his behavior, maybe he worried he was a threat to the public. That part I don't know. But every shot after that first one that spun him around and knocked him down was completely unnecessary. I agree the officer should be charged and convicted with something. I don't think 1st Degree murder was the right call, but hopefully the jury will have the option of convicting of 2nd degree or even manslaughter if they don't find it was 1st Degree. The cop couldn't have premeditated this, he didn't wait long enough for one thing, he didn't know who they were going to find when they answered the call for the break ins, etc... I definitely think he needs to be prosecuted though and his action was not right.

That said there are a lot of people to be disappointed in in this situation. The kid could have listened to the cops. The city could have done the right thing and fired the guy. They could have given the family the $5m but not treated it as hush money as it seems like they did. The family could have demanded justice so that this cop could have been dealt with earlier, especially since there is video evidence. I am not blaming here, I'm just saying lots of things could have been done differently in this case, the way they did it just gives anyone who is already suspicious of the police (and government) fuel for their fire. Cops are not perfect and when they do screw up they should be dealt with accordingly. I know they are only human but they also should be held to a higher standard and when they do something bad it should not be swept under the rug. They need more transparency.

 

[fizzypop]

(edit and BBM by me)

What was the hurry? The police were all on the clock,they were getting paid,what's the rush to terminate a human being's life? It didn't matter if Laquan McDonald was waving a Samurai sword around,they had overwhelming firepower,they had it covered.The priority should have been de-escalation,no one on that street needed to die.

The irony here is that the Chicago Police approach is the way our military could and should be fighting wars but it's a disastrous way to police a community.

I don't disagree with this. They should have tried to deescalate it. They shot him way too fast and there was no need to keep shooting him. This officer is definitely a problem and should have never been allowed to keep his job for this last year. The police had their guns and they could have just followed him on foot, he wasn't even running. I'm not saying he deserved to be shot at but still I don't understand why people can't just follow officers orders when one is obviously don't something wrong. That wouldn't solve all these cases and might not have even solved this one since the officer was so quick on the trigger, but there are lots of cases where the person could just do what they are told (within reason of course) but they choose to escalate the situation by not listening.

My LE professor told us that there are so many instances where he was just going to talk to a person or give them a warning and before he could even say anything the person got an attitude or fled or did something else before he even said a word, so he ended up ticketing or even arresting them. That's on them. Not acting suspicious and cooperating would diffuse a lot of these situations. Of course there are bad cops and sometimes nothing the person does will be "right" in that officer's mind, but those are not the majority.