IL IL - Mascoutah, BlkFem Skeletal 327UFIL, 20-40, SK victim, off I-64, Jan'02

[MizKim]

Just wondering if anyone here is going to submit Bedriye?

I've never submitted someone but I'm about to for the other UID thread I've been posting on ... I can also do this one if no one else wants to, I'll just need more time to research since I'm not very familiar with this case.

I think you should submit it also.

 

[zinc]

The overlay is sort of crude (I finger drew the main facial feature outlines on my computer) ... I traced Jane Doe's face, copied and pasted an exact duplicate drawing on Bedriye Sayrun to make sure the features were all in proportion. The nose was such a perfect match it's as if the artist used Bedriye's nose as her 'model nose' - all other features also incredibly close!!

Just in case this is a source of confusion to anyone: the remains are supposed to have been skeletal, so the nice match between the noses should only be credited to the judgment of the reconstructor. Good thought on the traced overlay. For me the striking point of resemblance is in the way the cheeks draw in as you descend from the face midpoint toward the chin. Don't know what the correct terminology for that would be.

I have some minor neurological issues that, among other things, fuzz up my facial recognition a little bit (I even browse MP and UID sites with images turned off). It's unusual for me to quickly 'get' that sense of recognition that most folks do, and I did this time. I am hopeful that MizKim's possible match works out here.

Thank You Zinc! I had the exact same question on another UID thread & before submitting a possible match I wondered about the DNA samples (both the Jane Doe & the possible match have DNA samples on file according to NAMUS) - you answered my question!

Very glad if it was helpful. I seriously urge anyone who is interested in knowing more about how NamUs works to read the slides I mentioned above (or Google search for others, there are a bunch of useful B. J. Spamer presentation PDFs about NamUs floating around the Internet):

Issues that Impede Missing and Unidentified Person Investigations, B. J. Spamer
http://www.untfsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/FVTC-Feb-2011.pdf

Has serial killer Larry Bright been looked at for this one? He killed black women here in IL about that time.

Officially, the UID is believed to be a victim of serial killer Maury Troy Travis, though it's not clear what links him to her, since no cause of death was determined and her remains had been exposed to the elements for many months. Mr. Travis committed suicide in jail without having given much meaningful information on the women he killed, and his only surviving victim suffered such significant brain damage that she had to be placed in a care facility. It is possible that someone resembling the UID reconstruction was seen on one of his souvenir videotapes*.

* If you Google Maury Troy Travis for more information, the videos are one of the first several results, but please do not watch them in any hopes of matching a UID. I was watching a newscast with friends once when we caught just a few seconds of the footage, which was shown without any warning. The paralyzing horror that descended over the entire room is beyond description. That was ten years ago, and I still cannot forgive the sick f--- who thought it was appropriate to broadcast for the amusement of the public what those women endured.

 

[carbuff]

re: Travis and this UID -- I read somewhere, though I can't find the citation now, that he told police he dumped one body in the general vicinity of where this UID was found. Sick doesn't begin to describe that monster.

Zinc, I'm what they call "face-blind." I only recognize faces from context. The art classes I've been taking have taught me how to look at shapes and proportions much more closely, so if I treat a sketch or a photo face as if it's a flower or a vase, I can get useful information.

 

[SunsetGirl]

Just in case this is a source of confusion to anyone: the remains are supposed to have been skeletal, so the nice match between the noses should only be credited to the judgment of the reconstructor. Good thought on the traced overlay. For me the striking point of resemblance is in the way the cheeks draw in as you descend from the face midpoint toward the chin. Don't know what the correct terminology for that would be.

I realize an expert would probably laugh at my crude drawing comparisons on these faces ... I'm guessing certain measurements are 'fixed' measurements based on the skull and other features are the artist's best guess - I think I need to learn a few basic facts about facial reconstruction/comparison if I'm going to try my hand at this.

I will submit Bedriye.

 

[SunsetGirl]

Officially, the UID is believed to be a victim of serial killer Maury Troy Travis, though it's not clear what links him to her, since no cause of death was determined and her remains had been exposed to the elements for many months. Mr. Travis committed suicide in jail without having given much meaningful information on the women he killed, and his only surviving victim suffered such significant brain damage that she had to be placed in a care facility. It is possible that someone resembling the UID reconstruction was seen on one of his souvenir videotapes*.

* If you Google Maury Troy Travis for more information, the videos are one of the first several results, but please do not watch them in any hopes of matching a UID. I was watching a newscast with friends once when we caught just a few seconds of the footage, which was shown without any warning. The paralyzing horror that descended over the entire room is beyond description. That was ten years ago, and I still cannot forgive the sick f--- who thought it was appropriate to broadcast for the amusement of the public what those women endured.

There are 3 unidentified victims believed to be killed by Maury Troy Travis:

Our Jane Doe here - I'll call her Victim #1 ...http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/327ufil.html ... found Jan 30, 2002

Victim #2 ... http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/334ufil.html
(I could not find a Namus file for her) ... found Mar 11, 2002

Victim #3 ... http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/302ufil.html
Her Namus file: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/12166 ... found Mar 28, 2002

I don't see WS threads for Victims #2 & #3 ... time frame is really close so any possible matches we find for our Jane Doe could be considered for the others.

 

[SunsetGirl]

Here are side by side comparisons for Jane Doe and Toi Mitchell ... I used the eyes as my gauge - once I make the eyes line up width wise, I see how everything else works - since I'm using 2 photos not of exact size/perspective it's a bit of a guessing game but that way I can be consistent and not be distorting the proportions to make them work (does that make sense?)

She's a possibility I think also. I'm in communication with the detective in charge of this Jane Doe's case so I'll run Toi Mitchell by her as a possible 2nd. I'm just about to email her Bedriye Sayrun's info & photos. She was exceptionally kind and helpful as I stumbled over my words trying to explain what we've found.

 

[SunsetGirl]

Along the above lines, there's a slide I remember from a presentation about NamUs for investigators:

Issues that Impede Missing and Unidentified Person Investigations, B. J. Spamer
http://www.untfsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/FVTC-Feb-2011.pdf


As public users, we doubly can't assume any of the above, because we have no information on it. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that we laypersons are supposed to just read "DNA available" and trust that a comparison will be made, and not get into law enforcement's business. The large numbers of public possible match submissions as a result of NamUs have become a source of frustration for many investigative departments, and justifiably so.

The detective in charge of this Jane Doe case said the same thing - just because NAMUS says DNA is on file really means nothing - it may not be compared against anything until a request comes in - good to know! She said they use 10 different DNA testing labs - the results may not actually be uploaded into the database for comparison even if it says DNA submitted.

 

[MizKim]

Here are side by side comparisons for Jane Doe and Toi Mitchell ... I used the eyes as my gauge - once I make the eyes line up width wise, I see how everything else works - since I'm using 2 photos not of exact size/perspective it's a bit of a guessing game but that way I can be consistent and not be distorting the proportions to make them work (does that make sense?)

She's a possibility I think also. I'm in communication with the detective in charge of this Jane Doe's case so I'll run Toi Mitchell by her as a possible 2nd. I'm just about to email her Bedriye Sayrun's info & photos. She was exceptionally kind and helpful as I stumbled over my words trying to explain what we've found.

Couldn't see your side by side so I'm posting both here.



I think Toi Mitchell could be a match also. I think Bedriye looks more like the first sketch and Toi more like the second.

 

[carbuff]

There are 3 unidentified victims believed to be killed by Maury Troy Travis:

Our Jane Doe here - I'll call her Victim #1 ...http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/327ufil.html ... found Jan 30, 2002

Victim #2 ... http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/334ufil.html
(I could not find a Namus file for her) ... found Mar 11, 2002

Victim #3 ... http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/302ufil.html
Her Namus file: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/12166 ... found Mar 28, 2002

I don't see WS threads for Victims #2 & #3 ... time frame is really close so any possible matches we find for our Jane Doe could be considered for the others.

Does Travis have a thread in the serial killers forum?

 

[SunsetGirl]

Hi all - I have submitted Bedriye Sayrun and Toi Mitchell as possible matches.

 

[SunsetGirl]

I'm repeating this post so I can add new links for the Illinois State Police Unsolved Crimes files & adding a potential 4th victim:

There are 3 unidentified victims believed to be killed by Maury Troy Travis:

Our Jane Doe here - I'll call her Victim #1 ...
[URL="https://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/unsolveddetails.cfm?ID=17"]Illinois State Police - Unsolved Crimes
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/327ufil.html[/URL] ... found Jan 30, 2002

Victim #2 ... http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/334ufil.html
Illinois State Police - Unsolved Crimes
(I could not find a Namus file for her) ... found Mar 11, 2002

Victim #3 ... http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/302ufil.html
Her Namus file:
[URL="https://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/unsolveddetails.cfm?ID=4"]Illinois State Police - Unsolved Crimes
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/12166[/URL] ... found Mar 28, 2002

I don't see WS threads for Victims #2 & #3 ... time frame is really close so any possible matches we find for our Jane Doe could be considered for the others.

Victim #4? ... found her on the Illinois State Police - Unsolved Crimes page also - her skeleton was found Oct 1, 2002 but the file indicates she is believed to have been killed in 2001 ... she might be unrelated to the other 3 I can't tell
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/546ufil.html

 

[gnsndr33]

SunsetGirl I think you guys are doing great job on this lady!

 

[SunsetGirl]

Hi everyone,
I've been corresponding with the CSI handling our Jane Doe's case here ... this is the reply I received today (bbm):

Through the course of my work, I became aware that NamUs was being under-utilized by agencies in the state of Illinois. Recently, I have been searching for UP cases by meeting with coroner's offices and searching law enforcement databases. I am creating a NamUs entry for each of the cases ... Over the past couple of months, I have created 7 UP entries. I have located several additional cases and will enter them as I find time. This is not a task that I am assigned to full-time. I do it in addition to my daily CSI responsibilities because I believe that these cases need attention. So, tell concerned forum members that there are more UP entries forthcoming.

In reference to NamUs UP#11788, her DNA is in NDIS (National DNA Index System) and not hiding in a local system.

I will check into Bedriye Sayrun to see if the DNA from the MP case has been searched against the UP case.

I will be contacting the Missouri Highway Patrol and St. Louis PD next week to see if there is DNA available on Toi Mitchell.

Thank you for your assistance and remind all family members of the Missing to make sure family reference DNA has been submitted on behalf of their loved ones. If they find that local law enforcement is less than helpful, urge families to contact the Illinois State Police.

Sergeant Abby Keller
Crime Scene Investigator
Illinois State Police
Division of Forensic Services

and then ...

P.S. I contacted St. Louis PD today and they are currently working on tracking down family members (they have recently located a son) of Toi Mitchell for DNA collection. There is no DNA on file at this time.

I'm grateful for Sgt Keller's assistance and will continue to post updates as I receive them!

 

[carbuff]

Wow, be sure to convey our gratitude to Sgt. Keller for all her hard work!

 

[Lil Quirky]

Kudos SunsetGirl! "YOU ROCK!"

 

[jenstar]

For Toi Mitchell, It still says initial inquiry underway for DNA. But I think she'd be a great match also for this UID: IDK which one you guys have labeled her but it's this one:http://doenetwork.org/cases/302ufil.html

I started looking it up after I saw a namus case number briefly on this article. It's where a woman finds out she's renting from the serial killer's mother..after the fact. How horrible would it be to find out that your house was used by a serial killer and NO ONE told you? JMO
http://www.14news.com/story/2597534...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[carbuff]

Oh. My. God. I'd be freaking out totally.

It says he has at least 17 victims? Wow.

 

[jenstar]

The one with the velour jumpsuit: https://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/unsolveddetails.cfm?ID=17
To me that seems kinda formal to be wearing on a date or just "out on the town". It could be that we're looking for someone that went missing around Thanksgiving of 2001. Also could be from out of state, and in IL visiting family. (Given the "several months" that the ME had mentioned.) jmo

 

[carbuff]

Toi Mitchell (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/24934/184) and Bedriye Sayrun (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1714/0/) both have DNA available, so it appears neither was a match.

 

[dotr]

http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article175220861.html

A 20- to 30-year-old black woman was found dead near mile marker 22 on Interstate 64 on Jan. 30, 2002. Illinois Department of Transportation workers discovered her skeletal remains in rural Mascoutah. Officials could not determine a cause of death. The woman had two rings on her left hand. One was a small 14-karat gold band and the other was a costume-style ring with a light blue tear-shaped stone. She was wearing a black, sleeveless Jason Matthews-brand jumpsuit.
Anyone with information about the woman can call Illinois State Police Zone 6 Investigations at 618-346-3782.

This woman’s body was found in rural Mascoutah near I-64 in January 2002. Clothes are jewelry she was found wearing are pictured above.
Provided by Illinois State Police

Read more here: http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article175220861.html#storylink=cpy