IL - Roger Holyfield, 17, dies after tazing by Jerseyville police, 28 Oct 2006

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by spclk, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. spclk

    spclk New Member

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    This really makes me angry. This kid was not hurting anyone but now he is dead. You didn't use to need tazers to subdue someone but now it seems someone is dying every week after being tazered.

    JERSEYVILLE, Ill. — Authorities are investigating the death of a 17-year-old boy who died after officers in this St. Louis-area community shot him twice with a stun gun while he carried a Bible and cordless telephone, shouting "I want Jesus."

    Roger Holyfield died Sunday night at a St. Louis hospital, a day after the former Jersey Community High School's confrontation with police.
     
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  3. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    I think that there is more to this then meets the eye, could you please provide a link to the full story.

    I put money that there was some sort of 'drug" history or drug use involved.
     
  4. Details

    Details Former Member

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    But was it the tazer? They don't know that yet - with his behavior, he could very likely have been high and overdosed on something that really killed him.

    Tazers save a lot of lives too. Police would otherwise need to physically subdue people, and some of them would no doubt become a threat to the officer's safety - thus meaning gunfire if non-leathal alternatives were not available.
     
  5. reb

    reb New Member

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    oh goody,, another story the media is spinning to make cops look like the bad guys. hhhmmm..... you seem to have left out the part about him yelling at the officers, not responding to them and getting COMBATATIVE with them, after he ignored their warnings when they tried to calm him down.

    smells like drugs to me. mental illness, MAYBE.... but more likely- drugs. they probably didn't mean to kill him, but when someone is on drugs and they are aggressive and combatative to a police offer-- hey you get what you deserve- which is to be tasered. if he was on drugs then it's HIS fault he died, NOT the cop's!!!!!! please don't make this guy into a saint or a martyr just because he was 'calling for jesus'. so what? that doesn't mean anything,, insane or drugged out people do that all the time. just makes a good news story, because the media knows readers will feel sorry for him and paint him as the innocent god-fearing victim.

    ..at least not until you hear the whole story. but knowing the media today, i doubt we ever will.
     
  6. Mr. E

    Mr. E New Member

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    I'm not a cop, but I can't imagine facing the unknown all the time like they have to. They didn't use guns; they didn't beat the boy. They tried to control him with a tazer. I don't know the whole story, but if he was wigging out, what were they supposed to do?
     
  7. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    Yeah it happened here also, a person was "tasered" and died. But alas, when they did the autopsy, they found high levels of cocaine in his system, booze, and meth. His heart was already "racing" when he was tasered, so again he was pre-disposed to an erratic heart beat, the drugs contributed greatly to his death. If he was not under the influence, then the taser would not have killed him
     
  8. spclk

    spclk New Member

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    Sorry, I forgot the link:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226417,00.html
     
  9. spclk

    spclk New Member

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    I am not defending the kid for resisting arrest, I am simply saying that there must be better ways to subdue a "child" (and yes, he is still a child) than with 2 tazer shots. The article states that 156 people have died in the last 5 years from tazers.

    It has nothing to do with him shouting for Jesus (although is this a crime? Last I checked it is not yet...but probably will be in my lifetime). I think that this was extreme for just standing on the street corner and shouting.

    Call me crazy if you like, but we are becoming a "less than democratic country" where many of our freedoms are being taken away from us. Yes, some religious, but many just human and american.
     
  10. Details

    Details Former Member

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    Accepting both biased stats in that article as true -
    Not a bad ratio - saving 8,844 lives! Of course, Amnesty International is probably biased to list deaths as caused by taser, even when the drugs or some such were the major cause of death; and the Taser company probably exaggerates the number of lives saved... but still, the taser looks good.


    And the police do have a responsibility not to just let this guy go screaming through the neighborhood - they can't just let him go because he's combative, just give up. If he's going to be combative, it should be with the police, they shouldn't just let him go off to get combative at the next civilian person he comes across. Taser is the easy option, the safest option for this guy.
     
  11. Details

    Details Former Member

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    Making a disturbance can be a crime - I don't see the time (was it middle of the night?) - but that's not why he was shot by the taser. He was shot when he became combative. Police can't just walk away from that - the next person he becomes combative at probably won't have a taser nor a gun to defend themselves with. He may still be a child - but at 17, plenty big enough to kill if he's not in his right mind - or if he is, and it's not a very right mind.

    This isn't religious - he was having a freakout, not trying to preach or communicate to people. And he was combative, and the officers used the gentlest method that he allowed them to use.
     
  12. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    The Police are not going to risk their lives because they do not use the taser. I rather the Taser is used, then a gun.

    A youth was on the ground, he was in the process of being handcuffed, he had a "small "jacknife" hidden, in his hand. He attempted a "round house" swing, to "stab" the cop(s). The cops had no choice but to shoot him, he died. He was 17.

    Well an inquest was held. The families position, was that "he was murdered", the cops got away with "murder", that there was no knife and the cops only wanted to kill him because of his ethnic background. You know, the cops lied, they planted evidence, they planted a fake knife, they did not tell the kid they were cops, etc. It was the cops fault that the kids died, he was just such a "great" kid.

    Everything except that their kid tried to "knife" two cops and they defended themselves with lethal force. If he did not try to knife the cops, then he would not have died. End of story.

    The family is still "suing" police........even though their kid was at fault.
     
  13. SadieMae

    SadieMae Former Member

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    Some 17 year olds are bigger than the cops trying to arrest them. My stepson is a 16 year old "child", 6'3" and 235#. It's not about not being democratic, or about Jesus, it's about obeying the authority of the law. The cops probably had families and children also. My sister is a cop and a single Mom. At 5'3" I doubt she's going to take any chances that would prevent her from raising her child, and she doesn't want "shoot to kill" any one else's child. The tazer is a method to control an out of control person. What normal person stands on a street corner shouting anyway. Somethings wrong there...they are on drugs or mental. JMO.
     
  14. reb

    reb New Member

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    i don't know what's happening in our society that the criminals, trouble-makers & murderers are being made into martyrs by their family, and then the media picks up on it and they become some kind of folk hero... and cops are the evil bad guys for just doing their job. i am so sick of this. sure there are some bad and corrupt cops just like all people. but they are HUMAN-- they have a job that most of us would never want, and i'd like to see what society would be like if we didn't have them-- it would be a mess, anarchy, a free-for-all-- you wouldn't have 911 to dial- you'd have to defend yourself. i think cops deserve our utmost repect- and in cases like this, the benefit of the doubt. most are just doing their job to the best of their ability- which is to protect and serve- and they certainly deserve to stay alive and go home to their families at night. why do we always make them out to be the enemy? because we feel harassed when we get a traffic ticket?? OK, no one likes speed traps, or to see cops pick on us easy targets, when they should be dealing with crack houses and criminals. but most every time i got a ticket or stopped by a cop, i deserved it-- that's what they do. there are traffic laws for a reason, to keep people safe!! other than that, why do people hate cops so much?? who exactly are YOU (meaning anyone) going to call when someone is attacking you and you need help???
    cops save so many lives every day and when do they get credit for that? they only get raked across the coals every time a drug addict or criminal dies in their custody, which makes the headlines nationwide. what about the heroes-- those who risk their own life to help others??? oh yeah- i forgot-- that's what they're doing EVERY DAY. it's kind of like being a soldier on the front lines, except they never get to go home!

    as for the taser-- what were they supposed to do? did you have a better idea? oh yeah, tackle them, and get stabbed? or get in touble for laying a hand on them?

    that being said i rather enjoy when a cop does beat the **** out of somebody who is trying to elude them and threatening them. they usually deserve it. and they usually do have a weapon. a cop has a right to defend his/her own life. and if that involves beating someone down, so be it. and if someone has a coke-induced heart attack, then hallelujah- that's one less **** on the streets or clogging up the prison system. it's their own fault anyway.
     
  15. Opie

    Opie Well-Known Member

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    reb, I like the way you think.
     
  16. Shadow205

    Shadow205 New Member

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    Holyfield became combative when officers tried to calm him, then was shot with a stun gun after ignoring their warnings to comply with their commands, police said. He was shot a second time when he continued struggling, police said.


    It's just my opinion but I really don't see a problem here. The officers did what they had to do to deal with a compative person. As for him being 17 years old, a 17 year old can hurt you just as badly as a 25 year old. Not that it matters but I doubt seriouslly that he gave the officers his age.
     
  17. SadieMae

    SadieMae Former Member

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    After re-reading your post, what were they supposed to use? They carry batons, (sure beat the **** outta him), guns (shoot him), or just gang up on him. I get tired when people blame the police of misconduct when they do their job by the book. Where is it someone is "dying every week"? What sources does this information come from? If it were me, or one of my boys "out of control", I'd rather take my chances with the tazer. No scars, no broken bones. It's unfortunate this young man died, but it didn't have to happen. His death was not by any fault of the police. JMHO
     
  18. GlitchWizard

    GlitchWizard Reprobate

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    I once called the police on a boyfriend who punched my windshield and was suicidal. I wanted the police to take him away to a place where he'd be safe, like a mental hospital. Instead, they battered him around a bit first.

    I was SO UPSET (and naieve) at the time.

    Years later, I met a correctional officer who put it into perspective. He said "You are called on a case where a verbally abusive person just punched out a windshield. He reeks of alcohol and there is a chance he is unable to feel pain (which makes him "stronger" and more dangerous because his muscles don't tell him to stop what he is doing due to pain.) Your job is to put him in the car and not let him hurt you in the process. It's not like you can reason with him and say "Please sit in that car over there.""

    So, I'm no longer upset. I also no longer date alcoholic men with short tempers.

    :)
     
  19. lymom3

    lymom3 Active Member

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    It took 6 police officers and tasering him twice to subdue him. Don't know if drugs were involved but I've heard that he was Bipolar. They say he was in a state of "excited delirium" that ups the adrenaline. Can be caused by mental illness or by drugs but autopsy findings they are saying may take up to 6 weeks.
     
  20. spclk

    spclk New Member

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    Look, I hear you all loud and clear and agree that in most cases it is justified. However, according to a local newspaper:

    "The teen stood about 5 feet 7 inches tall and weighed about 150 pounds, compared to the officers, who were at least 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighed 180 pounds or more, according to a department news release. Wagner called for back-up, and Officer Matt Witt responded. "

    He also had been handcuffed before they tazered him the first time, much less the second time. How much of a danger could he have been while handcuffed and only 150 pounds with NO weapon???

    I can't help but feel sorry for this kid and his family. He wasn't dealing drugs, or stealing or attacking anyone......where was his crime? He was just standing on the street corner shouting. If it were my child I would want to know the full details of why this happened and I stand by my opinion!
     
  21. GlitchWizard

    GlitchWizard Reprobate

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    Of COURSE. When it's someone you love, and you know, the whole issue is changed completely for you. Even if my daughter were strung out on PCP and hurling live handgrenades at the entire police station - I'd be wondering what else they could have done besides kill her!

    Shooting to kill made way for those plastic pellets, batons and tazers. Perhaps plastic pellets, batons and tazers will eventually make way for an even better solution. (Personally, I like the idea of those darts they use to bring down wild animals temporarily for medical treatment and relocation.)

    I'd rather be knocked out and safely transported if I ever lost my mind and went after an officer, than beaten, shocked, shot or killed.
     

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