Illegal/Underground Adoption Theories and leads

Discussion in 'Gabriel Johnson' started by YellowSubmarine, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane!

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    Let's discuss any information we have and the possibility of this . . .
     
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  3. dini1976

    dini1976 New Member

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    Well for one, TS herself blurted out the possibility of him "going underground" on NG.

    We know of a lady, Tammy Faye who ran an underground operation.
     
  4. January.

    January. Active Member

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    I agree very much with kissdegirl's theory in the main thread. I really think someone is hiding little Gabriel and TS is behind the whole thing with the plans of getting Gabe for herself in the end. The one piece I can't quite fit in though is how did she really think she would get away with all of this? How in the world could she see herself getting custody after all of this? There are still a lot of questions in this theory, but I'm sticking to it.
     
  5. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane!

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    We also know that Janet M, who runs the Adoption Place in Mount Juliet Tennessee has been accused of falsifying docs and other illegal practices. She is well-known to the Smiths, who put EJ in contact with her.
     
  6. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    Is it ok if I repost it here? I posted right as we found out we had a subforum? Let me know if I need to take it down or something..I'm sure someone will let me know ;)

    I will stick to my theory until we know otherwise. I went to bed last night and slept well too, finally. I feel more at ease today as well. I hope they are good signs.

    I know TS set up EJ with someone. I think EJ does not know where he is, but TS knows who he's with. Of course, she cannnot contact them or else LE will find Gabriel. Her only source of communication right now is the internet and the media. That's why her face is all over it, all the time, acting smug and confident. She has to communicate to the person who has him that "all is well, don't worry, everything's fine...see, they're looking at EJ, it's okay, don't panic, don't hand him over, keep calm, it will blow over like I said."
    The person who has him, I also believe is watching the internet, and FB as well. Everything to this point has been a TS attempt to keep that person calm, but with the fan site so heated up, TS is concerned this person will crack under the pressure like EJ. So, she's now making it private, and removing things so this person will hopefully calm down. TS is just trying to show this person she is still in control.
    This is all just MHO of course. It's the only thing that the most sense to me. Someone uninvolved but a POI, wouldn't put their face out there this much.

    EJ's cracking, but she won't be able to help unless she really saw the person that has Gabriel (TS may have taken Gabriel to meet them though). TS knows, but she will never say, she is that self-righteous and believes she is doing the right thing...the right thing in Tammiland.

    I think he is either in TX, or TS/EJ took him to Victoria, where someone drove to Houston and hopped a plane for anywhere. Victoria was used as the distraction.

    I hope that Logan's trip is helpful, for him at least. Whoever has Gabriel, I hope they are moved by seeing this daddy trying so hard to find his little buddy.
     
  7. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    My reasons for believing in an illegal adoption are simple. If she wanted to kill him, he would have died in Tempe.
     
  8. dini1976

    dini1976 New Member

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    exactly!
     
  9. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    You were not kidding....simple! It does make sense though.
     
  10. OneLove

    OneLove New Member

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    Not_My_Kids, you are a hero to me. I so incredibly admire the work you are doing here and the passion with which you are doing it. My hat is off to you!

    After wavering back and forth several times between illegal adoption and killing Gabe, I am hopeful of a live Gabriel. Sadly, I see enough clues to make a case for either of these. I worship at your feet for continuing to look for Gabriel and for marshalling the forces behiind the effort. :)

    On your position that if she had wanted to kill him, he would have died in Tempe: I have worked professionally for decades with many with bipolar and borderline personality disordered women. I now also have several close family members by marriage that are sadly afflicted. I have personally been through a LOT by way of providing support and even physical presence when it was necessary to protect the young and innocent (much like Gabe).

    This helps me to be very aware that IF Gabriel was killed by his own mother, it likely was not premeditated. It was likely in an uncontrollable rage when her thoughts were not at all reasonable or rational during a massive impulse control failure. EJ was far from anyone who could exert a moderating influence on her thoughts and actions. She was not where she knew someone was keeping an eye on her mental status.

    Back in Tempe, she was surrounded by family and friends, which acted somewhat as a moderating influence. For example, she was out of control enough to tear up the apartment, but never touched Gabriel because she felt just enough moderating influence to know not to go there. San Antonio was different. And if she was off her medication, well, there is just no telling.

    Still, I vote for a live, happy, and healthy Gabriel when the day is done. :)

    I believe EJ's behavior on the phone yesterday just might have been partly due to another bipolar manic phase with signs of rage. She did beat the phone first before she hung up. :twocents:

    Many blessing to you and to your fellow sleuthers who are angels of mercy.
     
  11. OneLove

    OneLove New Member

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    If you are right (and I hope you are) about TS worrying about someone else cracking under the pressure from reading the *fanpage*, then those posts must be getting to TS also. Otherwise, she would just continue to shrug them off.

    Those are some tough words over there, but lets hope they are effective at getting through the self-appointed, self-righteous armor of the Smiths.
     
  12. edie1276

    edie1276 New Member

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    ITA! This is exactly what I'm thinking!
     
  13. OneLove

    OneLove New Member

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    I know, January, the sense of entitlement is off the charts. However, she DID get away with it once before with their own grandchild. They schemed and used dirty tactics to get legal custody of that child and it worked. So unfortunately, it may have reinforced their belief they could do it again.
     
  14. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    I think it was already said and done, and they were in too deep to turn back. They had no idea it would blow up like this, maybe beleiving EJs possible lies that LM wouldn't even look for them or something.....or...something.
     
  15. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane!

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    Did anyone get a screenshot of TS's fb comment - something like "Please pray for Elizabeth and Gabe while they're on the road. She got underground help in TX". It's deleted now.
     
  16. dini1976

    dini1976 New Member

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    did anyone send that in as a tip? Hopefully LE found it when they searched TS's house.
     
  17. kissdegirl

    kissdegirl New Member

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    This is probably a huge undertaking, if it hasn't already been done...but, I was wondering if it's possible to cross reference all those Smith relatives names (can't find it yet) with all of the Smith's social websites fan /friends list. I just really want to see who is watching everything a little too closely...if there is any possible way. :D
     
  18. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane!

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  19. Lucythree

    Lucythree New Member

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    Why was E going to Florida? Has that been stated?
     
  20. OneLove

    OneLove New Member

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    I believe there has only been conjecture that it would be a good place to make a new start and blend in with a new identity far from everything she was leaving behind.

    Several things are interesting:

    * The hostel he stayed at was said to be an international one that required guests to show that they were entering the country or leaving the country. I don't know if that has been verified. If it is true, did she have plans to leave the country, to where, and why? And how did she plan to fund that on only $500 in her pocket?

    * It might be possible she interviewed for a job in San Antonio and was "sent" to south Florida with job promises there, maybe in the skin/entertainment/club trade. Maybe having her hair done and a manicure were part of getting ready to go job shopping.

    * Did she have resources more than that $500 found on her? Had she already stashed money in either a bank account under her new identity, or had she put money in a lockbox or locker somewhere? Or even handed it off to someone at the hostel right as LE was moving in on her?

    * Has anyone there been interviewed as to what she had told them in the short time she was there?
     
  21. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    I'm a bit hesitant to add this in since I've never heard this before, but it is the P.I. saying this, so I'm adding it in for the sake of completeness.

    In this news video, the P.I. says specifically that Eliz said she sold Gabe in a parking lot.

    My transcription starting @ 3:40:

    Reporter: There's already a previous attempt to sell this baby the first time.

    Jay's son (nods affirmative): Correct.

    Jay (slight single affirmative nod)

    Reporter: and that probably gives you a much stronger leaning towards this
    theory.

    (Jay and his son both nodding affirmatively strongly while reporter says this. Unable to tell what Jay is saying while he's nodding.)

    Jay's son (said while reporter speaking): Absolutely. Absolutely.

    Jay's son: That's one of the reasons that we have... that's some of the information we have that leads us to believe that she... she was already on this track, which is gives us hope, which is what gives the family hope that her motivation to sell the baby was greater than her motivation to do the baby harm.



    Note: Although prior to this interview clip, there is some verbiage regarding the Smiths, there is no reference during this dialog to either of the Smiths, so it is not specified during this dialog when or to whom Eliz made this previous attempt to sell Gabe.

    http://www.ktsm.com/news/search-baby-gabriel


    This video also has Jay Sr. saying that Elizabeth was trying to sell Gabe.

    http://www.azcentral.com/video/#/Ne...+is+alive/40280768001/35150280001/64948296001

    Jay: That's what she was trying to do. She... We've been following the footsteps and... She was trying to uh, uh, give it up for adoption, but sell it up (may have said 'out' rather than 'up') for adoption...
     

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