Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

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sandy_80

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Yes. Something or someone pointed LE in RA’s direction. Whatever they found during that search led to the arrest. If it was a someone that pointed LE that way, I hope they receive the reward money if he is found guilty
or he was booked for a different crime that required DNA is also possible
that charge could have been withdrawn later
cause they cant get a search warrant cause of a tip
 

gizmobtj

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If KK thought he was connected to RA- through some online activity- the fact that he knew the perp was free could keep him quiet. For all we know KK could have been threatened with his life. To talk he would need safety.

If some of KK charges were dropped right before LE was tipped to RA- that also supports a connection. It could be as distant as online sicko web, but KK could also be headed to greater charges once they get from him all they can. Felony murder is a thing in Indiana

If there is no connection between KK and RA- How did RA know to be prepared? Were the girls targets or did he often show up prepared waiting for an opportunity?

What we do know is RA is believed to be the killer and he brazenly lived in plain sight within a very small community for many years. That fact is terrifying and speaks of a different level of evil ego. I fear he has a horrific resume of victims.
One note -- I think the charges were dropped against KAK right  after RA was brought into custody.

August - Fox 59 reports KAK is taken out of jail and his custody is transferred to another LE agency

August - Fox 59 reports this is when the Wabash River search in Peru begins. The search is from the Nickel Plate Trail Bridge and extends west past the US 31 bridge. It is a few miles from KAK's dad's home. According to ABC7, the connection between the search is its proximity to KAK's former home and that KAK was interviewed regarding his contact with Libby

Sept. 28 - ISP confirms to WishTV that the Wabash River search in Peru is completed

Oct. 13 - RA home and car search warrant

Oct. 26 -- RA taken into custody

Oct. 28 -- RA charged

Nov. 3 - Prosecutors ask for several charges to be dropped for KAK


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wn...ld-*advertiser censored*-case/?outputType=amp






 

Nobody_special

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He has the right to decline representation. I believe that the state can only appoint him one if he is unable to financially procure one himself.
That’s my understanding as well. Just a few possibilities:

- He or his family may be able to afford an attorney and are in the vetting process. Or he/they may at least be exploring it before realizing that they don’t have the proper funds for a case of this magnitude and will then accept a public defender. A wealthy relative may also be considering whether or not they want to pay for his defense.
- Due to the high-profile nature of the case, he may have already been approached by attorneys willing to represent him pro bono. I think this will be much more likely if it does end up being a death penalty case.
- He may be considering representing him self (pro se). Very unlikely but not unprecedented.

Or any number of other scenarios. Even beyond the 20-day window—or after accepting a PD—he can always decide to hire his own attorney if he can find a way to afford one.

In other words, in my layperson opinion, I wouldn’t read much into the fact that he hasn’t retained counsel yet.
 

FromGermany1

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Maybe, every special type of a person with a certain character one day could be a hit man. Idk, if I would think, RA could be one of them. It's a bit far-fetched, but never the less perhaps possible. Staging then in order of the client??

Idk RA, can't say, if I estimate him as such. My for now l-o-s-t poi I felt, he could have been a hitman, easily.
 

NoSpoonFeeding

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- Feb 13, 2017 Abby and Libby have contact with the KK profile, this KK is a collector and dealer in CSAM. They go to the bridge, take a picture and post it on social media, They meet a monster who kills them
This is hearsay, LE has never stated there is proof of contact of the 13th. The photo was posted on Snapchat only, when they were already on the bridge. They know which of her contacts could view it, it's not publicly viewable. No one claimed KAK saw her Snapchat or that he was a contact.
- Aug 2020- KK gives recorded statement with Det Vido ISP, arrest with no bond, 30 charges listed involving CSAM
Nothing in these charges is related to the murders.
- Aug 19 2022 KK is taken out of jail with LE, reports say related to Delphi murder case
This reason is only claimed by MurderSheets, there are no reports.
- Aug 2022 LE searches the Wabash river near Peru, Indiana for days, believed related to KK and the Delphi murders, KK is described as in negotiations with prosecutors
MurderSheets claimed someone in Peru called them and said a search was going on and it had to do with KAK. All hearsay and nothing has come of this information.
 
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gizmobtj

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I think it’s more common in federal cases.
Oklahoma City bombers (Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols)
Olympic bomber (Eric Rudolph)
Dylan Roof (Charlestown church shooter)

I know there have been many others in high-profile cases. Surprisingly, I couldn’t find a picture of the Boston Marathon bomber in a vest. I know I’ve also seen pictures of Gary Ridgway (not federal) in one but couldn’t find any in a cursory glance.

They obviously don’t want someone pulling a Jack Ruby on RA, which makes sense.
Also, John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo on state charges. And George Wagner and Jake Wagner in the Rhoden murders in Ohio now. I just think its about the public profile of the case
 

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gizmobtj

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.Just hit me.

For years, we were discussing five signatures. Ives mentioned signatures. They form in the process of killings, right? You don't wake up one day, decide to kill two people and leave signatures. You have to be a serial killer, right? If it is your first time, maybe you leave one, but five?

Or, maybe someone else in Delphi is a killer. Who can prevent a killer from burying a "clue" in someone's backyard when that person is away, then calling the police with a tip on that guy?

Or maybe someone not only posed, but indeed, staged the scene to look as the act of a serial killer?

And if it is RA who staged, posed, left signatures, the police should better find other murdered by him.
Yes, you do have to wake up some day and develop a signature. It has to start at some point and every killer has their first. Signatures can come from fantasies, fetishes, past experiences, books and movies -- not just prior crimes
 

TheProblemWeAllLiveWith

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It was strange because when asked if RA is the guy on the bridge, DC replied that is something we'll find out (when PC is unsealed), but when asked if they got their guy, it was a resounding yes.

ETA: I do think RA is the BG. I'm just curious why LE can't outright say he's the guy on the bridge
Great Point. I still cringe when I think of the press conference when they unveiled the young BG photo and announced This is the person responsible for the deaths…

Disclaimer- I understand this is an ‘Us’ problem, we may not be entitled to any information, there is plenty we don’t know, it’s an ongoing investigation, etc
And I’m getting way ahead of myself thinking about the implications of these confusing statements by LE if this thing goes to trial.

Just a little Transparency, or just answer a couple questions, would be great is my point lol.
 

gizmobtj

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The charges are double murder and No bond. RA is the only person ever arrested for the Delphi murders that took place five years ago. I’m thinking the evidence is rock solid.

It is possible there are other victims, some could be minors, or he is loosely linked to crimes in other cities with others- yet they don’t have the evidence to arrest those others.

I don’t see how sealing the PCA is not justice if it clearly lays out due process, it is backed by the local LE, ISP, and FBI and would have to be backed by the DA and signed by a judge.
This arrest doesn’t give the Ick feeling of a rush to judgment due to a crime that has a community up in arms- they’ve been patient and the missing puzzle piece was just found.
The other argument is they moved fast because they perceived him to be a danger to the public once they had a slice of evidence
 

vls12345

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I found this link with info about having a court-appointed lawyer in Indiana:

One statement of interest (to me) is, "Courts may appoint counsel in other cases if the court determines that the interests of justice demand such an appointment."

I feel like this is a case where the court should have done this from day one. The fact that he has been in jail for many days, been transferred between jails, had a judge recuse himself, etc. says (to me) that he should had had legal representation (even if it wouldn't have changed any of the actions that happened). Appointing a lawyer for him from day one would help protect the case, imo.

MOO.
 

Marzipan

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Also said many times, when it's solved it will be KAK and/or TK and one of them was BG.
Now I see the acceptance that RA is BG, but some don't think he found the victim's on his own and/or he had some input from KAK on who he should kill. To me, it looks like a theory that is still trying to fit KAK into the murder. Part of RA's MO and fantasy would have been the trips to scout out locations, to watch and wait for the right circumstances.
MOO
I’ve been moving away from trying to fit kk into the Murder. When I say I still think he’s connected, I don’t necessarily mean to the murder—but maybe to the murderer through his accounts and network. I have no evidence for that. Just the appearances of how everything happened in sequence with searches, LE moves, prisoner movements. Could all be coincidence.
Even the Murder Sheet producers could have been played.
 

Trebor5591

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All of this is MOO, but wow I just read the court order of Judge Diener, and I was shocked by some of the language he used in transferring Richard Allen to state custody. Below are excerpts I selected from Judge Dieners orders:

"This FINDING is not predicated on any acts or alleged acts of the Defendant, since arrest, rather a toxic and harmful insistence on “public information” about Defendant and this case..."

"this judicial officer keeps getting direct requests from non-parties for "public information," claiming that this officer has seven (7) days or one (1) day, when hand delivered, to respond to the request or face litigation! "

"...The public's blood lust for information, before it exists, is extremely dangerous. ALL PUBLIC SERVANTS administering this action do not feel safe and are not protected...."

"Most of the "public interest" consists of people attempting to ... raise their status or profit financially. When the public peddles misinformation with reckless abandon, we all are not safe...."


Aside from the language revealing the Judges feelings towards the public requesting information that should be in the public domain (i.e. the Arrest Warrant), the court documents show that Richard Allen has not yet obtained counsel:

"Defendant indicated at the initial hearing an intention to hire private counsel. Defendant is reminded that he must retain counsel within 20 days of the initial hearing because there are deadlines for filing motions and raising defenses and, if those deadlines are missed, the legal issues and defenses that could have been raised will be waived or given up."

MOO


 

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NoSpoonFeeding

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Link, please?

jmho ymmv lrr
I reposted with lots of MOO, if I need a link to show RA wasn't acting under the influence or direction of KAK to commit murder, then the other opinion would have needed some foundation. Unless there is something to show otherwise, I think it's generally accepted that people act of their own free will.MOO
 

Trebor5591

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I found this link with info about having a court-appointed lawyer in Indiana:

One statement of interest (to me) is, "Courts may appoint counsel in other cases if the court determines that the interests of justice demand such an appointment."

I feel like this is a case where the court should have done this from day one. The fact that he has been in jail for many days, been transferred between jails, had a judge recuse himself, etc. says (to me) that he should had had legal representation (even if it wouldn't have changed any of the actions that happened). Appointing a lawyer for him from day one would help protect the case, imo.

MOO.

I agree. An interim counsel should have been appointed (MOO)
 

Charlot123

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.
Assuming that not releasing information helps with successful prosecution of the preperatrator assumes that they have the right perpetrator and assumes that more information will not lead to strong tips ...
And assuming no other crimes against minors, from other people, are left unveiled by not releasing the information...
 

gizmobtj

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This is hearsay, LE has never stated there is proof of contact of the 13th. The photo was posted on Snapchat only, when they were already on the bridge. They know which of her contacts could view it, it's not publicly viewable. No one claimed KAK saw her Snapchat or that he was a contact.

Nothing in these charges is related to the murders.

This reason is only claimed by MurderSheets, there are no reports.

MurderSheets claimed someone in Peru called them and said a search was going on and it had to do with KAK. All hearsay and nothing has come of this information.
Its not herseay. Well, everything is herseay so far but its not just a rumor. The anthony_shots profile is the "last person to communicate with Libby German before her death"


 

O.Incandenza

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It was strange because when asked if RA is the guy on the bridge, DC replied that is something we'll find out (when PC is unsealed), but when asked if they got their guy, it was a resounding yes.

ETA: I do think RA is the BG. I'm just curious why LE can't outright say he's the guy on the bridge.
One way to make sense of some of the oddities is this: LE got some sort of tip about RA, be it from KAK or some other source. They got a warrant and searched his house. During the search they found something that definitively ties RA to the crime scene, maybe the clothing items that were mentioned missing in the RL warrant. Maybe something else.

Whatever they found makes them confident they can prove he was at the scene at the time of the crime. But they're not real sure of the scenario beyond that. So they can't rule out the possibility of an accomplice. That means they charge him with felony murder instead of the normal murder charge in case they later find out there was someone else there who did the actual killing. And it means they're cagey about whether he was the guy on the bridge, because they can't prove that for sure (hence no separate kidnapping charge and no charge for tampering with the bodies). And it means they keep asking for tips, because there's still a lot they don't know about how it went down.

My only problem with that scenario is that it makes the arrest seem a bit premature. You'd think they'd wait to flesh out the case before they arrested RA. But perhaps they were worried that the search had tipped him off and decided they needed to get him in custody.
 

gizmobtj

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All of this is MOO, but wow I just read the court order of Judge Diener, and I was shocked by some of the language he used in transferring Richard Allen to state custody. Below are excerpts I selected from Judge Dieners orders:

"This FINDING is not predicated on any acts or alleged acts of the Defendant, since arrest, rather a toxic and harmful insistence on “public information” about Defendant and this case..."

"this judicial officer keeps getting direct requests from non-parties for "public information," claiming that this officer has seven (7) days or one (1) day, when hand delivered, to respond to the request or face litigation! "

"...The public's blood lust for information, before it exists, is extremely dangerous. ALL PUBLIC SERVANTS administering this action do not feel safe and are not protected...."

"Most of the "public interest" consists of people attempting to ... raise their status or profit financially. When the public peddles misinformation with reckless abandon, we all are not safe...."


Aside from the language revealing the Judges feelings towards the public requesting information that should be in the public domain (i.e. the Arrest Warrant), the court documents show that Richard Allen has not yet obtained counsel:

"Defendant indicated at the initial hearing an intention to hire private counsel. Defendant is reminded that he must retain counsel within 20 days of the initial hearing because there are deadlines for filing motions and raising defenses and, if those deadlines are missed, the legal issues and defenses that could have been raised will be waived or given up."

MOO


Yeah -- doesn't exactly inspire confidence in his decisions thusfar
 
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