Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

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gizmobtj

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One way to make sense of some of the oddities is this: LE got some sort of tip about RA, be it from KAK or some other source. They got a warrant and searched his house. During the search they found something that definitively ties RA to the crime scene, maybe the clothing items that were mentioned missing in the RL warrant. Maybe something else.

Whatever they found makes them confident they can prove he was at the scene at the time of the crime. But they're not real sure of the scenario beyond that. So they can't rule out the possibility of an accomplice. That means they charge him with felony murder instead of the normal murder charge in case they later find out there was someone else there who did the actual killing. And it means they're cagey about whether he was the guy on the bridge, because they can't prove that for sure (hence no separate kidnapping charge and no charge for tampering with the bodies). And it means they keep asking for tips, because there's still a lot they don't know about how it went down.

My only problem with that scenario is that it makes the arrest seem a bit premature. You'd think they'd wait to flesh out the case before they arrested RA. But perhaps they were worried that the search had tipped him off and decided they needed to get him in custody.
Yes! And yes
 

NoSpoonFeeding

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Its not herseay. Well, everything is herseay so far but its not just a rumor. The anthony_shots profile is the "last person to communicate with Libby German before her death"


On the 13th! This is hearsay, LE has never stated there is proof of contact of the 13th.
 
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Trebor5591

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LE has no power to seal records

The Judge decides whether to do it. IMO the public would really only need to start worrying if there was a trend in Judge's sealing proceedings without good grounds.
MOO, I agree with you. I said "LE" (law Enforcement) using a large umbrella, to include the prosecution, and the Court...maybe that's not correct!

Another case in which the Court sealed many documents was the Lori Vallow murdere case, which has many threads on this website. Here's a link:


I think the public largely feel that sealing documents (in cases where there is high public interest) is done as a result of political pressure rather than valid reasons, MOO
 

Charlot123

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The charges are double murder and No bond. RA is the only person ever arrested for the Delphi murders that took place five years ago. I’m thinking the evidence is rock solid.

It is possible there are other victims, some could be minors, or he is loosely linked to crimes in other cities with others- yet they don’t have the evidence to arrest those others.

I don’t see how sealing the PCA is not justice if it clearly lays out due process, it is backed by the local LE, ISP, and FBI and would have to be backed by the DA and signed by a judge.
This arrest doesn’t give the Ick feeling of a rush to judgment due to a crime that has a community up in arms- they’ve been patient and the missing puzzle piece was just found.
It is Indiana's case.

However, everything about it being kept under wraps. This, and us periodically getting sketches and descriptions of the "people responsible" that do not resemble RA a bit, plus nation-wide scandals with FBI agents supervising the case, make one question the thinking pattern of the detectives working on "the Delphi Murders".

This is why, when someone says, "now we are sure", and you remember how in 2019 they unveiled that sketch and changed everything, including the age range, so that their prime suspect is a definite outlier, you want to see what makes them so sure, you know. In short, nowadays I'd like to see some proof to ISP statements
 

raja

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Great Point. I still cringe when I think of the press conference when they unveiled the young BG photo and announced This is the person responsible for the deaths…

Disclaimer- I understand this is an ‘Us’ problem, we may not be entitled to any information, there is plenty we don’t know, it’s an ongoing investigation, etc
And I’m getting way ahead of myself thinking about the implications of these confusing statements by LE if this thing goes to trial.

Just a little Transparency, or just answer a couple questions, would be great is my point lol.
I be always thought they said the man on the bridge video and his voice was the person responsible for the murders. Not so much as the new sketch the revealed.
 

FrostedGlass

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Since the big deal is about the sealed docs, what info would we be wanting "before it exists"? (The bolded part below)
All of this is MOO, but wow I just read the court order of Judge Diener, and I was shocked by some of the language he used in transferring Richard Allen to state custody. Below are excerpts I selected from Judge Dieners orders:

"This FINDING is not predicated on any acts or alleged acts of the Defendant, since arrest, rather a toxic and harmful insistence on “public information” about Defendant and this case..."

"this judicial officer keeps getting direct requests from non-parties for "public information," claiming that this officer has seven (7) days or one (1) day, when hand delivered, to respond to the request or face litigation! "

"...The public's blood lust for information, before it exists, is extremely dangerous. ALL PUBLIC SERVANTS administering this action do not feel safe and are not protected...."

"Most of the "public interest" consists of people attempting to ... raise their status or profit financially. When the public peddles misinformation with reckless abandon, we all are not safe...."


Aside from the language revealing the Judges feelings towards the public requesting information that should be in the public domain (i.e. the Arrest Warrant), the court documents show that Richard Allen has not yet obtained counsel:

"Defendant indicated at the initial hearing an intention to hire private counsel. Defendant is reminded that he must retain counsel within 20 days of the initial hearing because there are deadlines for filing motions and raising defenses and, if those deadlines are missed, the legal issues and defenses that could have been raised will be waived or given up."

MOO


 

AngTxGal

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Since the big deal is about the sealed docs, what info would we be wanting "before it exists"? (The bolded part below)

The info the judge thinks the public wants ‘before it exists’ could be the name of his attorney, any thing he says upon arrest, maybe items that are thought to be evidence but are not yet processed?

I assume whatever was found at his home would be used a leverage to get him to talk.
We don’t know if he is talking, but as he has no attorney he should keep quiet.
We do know there aren’t any statements to the public from an attorney, yet, because no attorney has been hired or appointed?
 

Yuletide

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I can’t imagine what his family is going through right now. If he was able to commit this dastardly crime and then just slide back to normal, it must be completely awful for them right now.
 

NeverPersonal

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For Elizabeth's dad, Drew Collins, the likelihood his daughter's death is linked to the Delphi case is not totally out of the realm of possibility, though he believes there's only a "very small chance" it could be.

However, what has given him a renewed cause for optimism in his quest to get justice for his daughter was a bombshell announcement made by police in Indiana last week that an arrest had been made in connection with Abby and Libby's deaths.
We're going to find you, we're going to find out who helped you hide, and we're not going to stop until we do.
Drew Collins, Elizabeth's Dad, Speaking To Her Killer
Investigators are still exploring whether others may have been involved [in Delphi murders].

Drew said the potential breakthrough has "definitely" given him confidence that the culprit behind the murders of Elizabeth and Lyric will one day be unmasked.

"That guy [Richard Allen] wasn't even on anybody's radar, which just shows you these things can take time," said Drew, 51.

"We have a lot of good detectives working on this case and a lot of other dedicated people, and they aren't going to quit until we find who did this."

RENEWED CONFIDENCE​

"It could take 10 years, it could take 20 years, it could take longer ... but we're going to find who did this, it's just a matter of when. We're going to expose that person, their whole family is going to know what they did, and everyone will know what they did to those two beautiful little girls."
 

Jillyg

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Could you also post the link you're referencing when you update after you've found the 'other parts''? Thanks. So many links that it's hard to know which link people are talking about.
Absolutely. I'm about to do that in just a few minutes!
 

Yuletide

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For Elizabeth's dad, Drew Collins, the likelihood his daughter's death is linked to the Delphi case is not totally out of the realm of possibility, though he believes there's only a "very small chance" it could be.

However, what has given him a renewed cause for optimism in his quest to get justice for his daughter was a bombshell announcement made by police in Indiana last week that an arrest had been made in connection with Abby and Libby's deaths.

Investigators are still exploring whether others may have been involved [in Delphi murders].

Drew said the potential breakthrough has "definitely" given him confidence that the culprit behind the murders of Elizabeth and Lyric will one day be unmasked.

"That guy [Richard Allen] wasn't even on anybody's radar, which just shows you these things can take time," said Drew, 51.

"We have a lot of good detectives working on this case and a lot of other dedicated people, and they aren't going to quit until we find who did this."

RENEWED CONFIDENCE​

"It could take 10 years, it could take 20 years, it could take longer ... but we're going to find who did this, it's just a matter of when. We're going to expose that person, their whole family is going to know what they did, and everyone will know what they did to those two beautiful little girls."
The date of those murders and the date of these murders certainly have an eery similarity
 
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AngTxGal

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The question was how would he know to be ready for the victims if he didn't know ahead of time they would be there, as if killers don't walk about with the weapons they will use in hopes of finding a victim. There is no evidence that KAK knew they would be on the trail.
There is zero indication RA knew the victims, catfished them or had something to "revenge". They were sexually motivated murders.
Some killers likely do walk around with weapons on them in hopes of finding victims.
Would a family man walk around regularly with a weapon on him, to hike a local trail? I don’t think so, but I’m in Texas and many men walk around with guns and pocket knives.
His premeditation could have happened the moment he left to go to the bridge, he picked up a gun or knife or both. The day may have felt like a good day because he knew the kids would have no school so there would be kids in the bridge area.

I don’t think there has to be a connection between KK and RA, it make sense with or without that connection. I do think the timing of the Wabash river search and 4-6 weeks later the search and arrest of RA are very close to one another.

Yes, there is no evidence we know of that links RA to the girls. Of course we haven’t a clue what was used as PC for the search, or PC for his arrest.
 

AngTxGal

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The question was how would he know to be ready for the victims if he didn't know ahead of time they would be there, as if killers don't walk about with the weapons they will use in hopes of finding a victim. There is no evidence that KAK knew they would be on the trail.
There is zero indication RA knew the victims, catfished them or had something to "revenge". They were sexually motivated murders.
When we think of preparedness it has to be in the context of this case, where he eluded capture while living in the area.
His preparedness is more than his weapon. It has to be all the things and planning including how he got there, his alibi, how he protected his clothing, and how he got away in the daylight to a car or home.
We know that what he did kept him off the radar for five years. So it seems it worked

- Where was his wife? Was she not at home?
- Why was he not at work?
- What alibi did he gIve when questioned by LE back in 2017?
- How did he not become covered with blood?
- If he was covered in blood what did he do with his clothes?
- How did he not leave more evidence of his presence at the scene?
- Did he walk or drive to and from? Which path did he take?
- What weapon did he use and what did he do with it after?
 
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Jillyg

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I’m adding the whole quote I referred to, from the video I just posted, here for others, to clarify my remarks, as we were both paraphrasing, & that can introduce confusion! At about the 11 min mark DC says: “I believe in the probable cause. I’ve read it multiple times. I believe in that probable cause. & I believe in its outcome. So I believe, in some semblance of a short amount of time, it will be up to the courts, it will be up to the judge, but that answer will be in due time.”

I know this group is definitely divided on whether there were others involved! I hear you. Reasonable minds may differ & all that. I personally still tend to think others may be involved in some capacity. I believe he acted alone that day, but I haven’t yet entirely discounted the “ring” aspect. I’m totally open to changing my mind though & I actually hope I’m wrong. JMO
The rest of what I had paraphrased last night.

Do you anticipate there could be other arrests in this case?

DC: There always could be other arrests with any case

Start about 11:48 mark

*Talking about the killer, the interviewer asks "Did you find that person?"

DC: We did.

Start about the 13:00 mark.


 

Mellowmelly

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When we think of preparedness it has to be in the context of this case, where he eluded capture while living in the area.
His preparedness is more than his weapon. It has to be all the things planning including how he got there, his alibi, how he protected his clothing, and how he got away in the daylight to a car or home.
We know that what he kept him off the radar for five years. So it seems it worked

- Where was his wife? Was she not at home?
- Why was he not at work?
- What alibi did he gIve when questioned by LE back in 2017?
- How did he not become covered with blood?
- If he was covered in blood what did he do with his clothes?
- How did he not leave more evidence of his presence at the scene?
- Did he walk or drive to and from? Which path did he take?
- What weapon did he use and what did he do with it after?
Could he have been unemployed at the time of the murders or transitioning between jobs ? His wife could have been at work at the time of crime. As he lived close enough could he have stashed a change of clothes somewhere in the woods previously in preparation for carrying out his fantasy/urge ? Like Isreal Keys as a previous poster has mentioned.
 

Figuring

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The rest of what I had paraphrased last night.

Do you anticipate there could be other arrests in this case?

DC: There always could be other arrests with any case

Start about 11:48 mark

*Talking about the killer, the interviewer asks "Did you find that person?"

DC: We did.

Start about the 13:00 mark.


Thank you for this, I fell asleep last night & am just catching up! He does look so gratified when he says “we did.” I cannot imagine what an arrest must feel like to everyone there after all this time.
 

Trebor5591

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Since the big deal is about the sealed docs, what info would we be wanting "before it exists"? (The bolded part below)
Yes that's interesting wording. My interpretation (MOO) is that the judge is referring to requests he received by the public, some of which asked for information that doesn't exist. For instance I wonder if someone asked the court for "any information linking Kegan Kline to Richard Allen" and the judge is referring to that as information that doesn't exist. MOO
 

CSIDreamer

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When we think of preparedness it has to be in the context of this case, where he eluded capture while living in the area.
His preparedness is more than his weapon. It has to be all the things and planning including how he got there, his alibi, how he protected his clothing, and how he got away in the daylight to a car or home.
We know that what he did kept him off the radar for five years. So it seems it worked

- Where was his wife? Was she not at home?
- Why was he not at work?
- What alibi did he gIve when questioned by LE back in 2017?
- How did he not become covered with blood?
- If he was covered in blood what did he do with his clothes?
- How did he not leave more evidence of his presence at the scene?
- Did he walk or drive to and from? Which path did he take?
- What weapon did he use and what did he do with it after?
I've wondered if he ever hunted. There are some folding knives made specifically for hunters. I've not been convinced he was necessarily covered in blood. JMO

ETA not to specify you have to be a hunter to own one of these knives.
 
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