Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

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SMK777

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Yes I’m not sure why people might think a plain and simple murder charge against somebody else ought to accompany the charge RA is facing as if it indicates he wasn’t directly involved in the murders.


Last week when Sheriff Leazenby got word that an arrest was being made in Abby and Libby’s murder, we asked if there was some hesitation of getting his hopes up.

“Based on what the investigators shared with me my answer is no. I felt very confident with what they had gained,” said Sheriff Leazenby…”

From FOX59 reporter: No bond, and the charge is felony murder instead of murder.
CE2616C5-4852-4FAF-A4C1-C0260FA26ABE.jpeg
 

MistyWaters

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Please link the Indiana penal code that says this. ALL the sections under Indiana's Murder charge state "You killed a human and......."
BBM

“Investigators have alleged that Abby and Libby were forced under threat to leave the bridge by a man whose voice and image were captured on one of the cell phone of one of the girls and their bodies were discovered several hundred feet on a piece of land along the bank of Deer Creek.

Experts tell FOX59 News that the felony murder statute provides prosecutors with leeway to charge multiple individuals with participation in a murder even if they played only a supporting role.”
 

MistyWaters

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From FOX59 reporter: No bond, and the charge is felony murder instead of murder.
View attachment 378503


Without knowing the evidence, why is there questions as to what RA was charged with? I don’t get it. It’s a serious charge, call it felony murder if you want, that can qualify for the death penalty, if the Prosecution chooses to go for it. It does not require additional aggravating circumstances.

Murder is a higher-level charge with more serious potential penalties than any level of felony in Indiana. When the prosecution can prove at least one aggravating circumstance exists, it can request the jury or judge to consider a sentence of life in prison without parole or death. Indiana Code § 35-50-2-9 specifies the conditions that qualify as aggravating circumstances in Indiana murder cases:
  • Intentional murder in the course of committing arson, burglary, child molestation, criminal deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, carjacking, organized crime, dealing cocaine or other narcotics, or in criminal confinement
 

positive

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Would they release the full BG video? Assuming they blur/omit the parts with the duo's face and really upsetting aspects?
I believe that if no plea deal is arrived at, and it goes to trial it would be introduced as evidence with no redactions. ONLY if prosecutors deemed it necessary to win the case and with the families approval.
 

positive

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It doesn't matter what the family wants. If it's needed, it will be played.
I agree. Thats why I said only if prosecutors deemed it necessary, meaning it absolutely has to be entered to win the case. If they have what they believe to be enough evidence without it (forensics, DNA, video,audio), it will never see the light of day.
 

O.Incandenza

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True, and another example is the Elkhart Four from Indiana.

But I would be shocked in this case if it turns out that RA is being charged for anything less than the actual, physical and direct murder of Libby and Abby.

Here is a paraphrased transcript of Carter’s interview with I-Team 8:

I-Team: Allen was charged. The statute that he is charged under, the murder charge, also indicated that he has to have committed another crime, like rape, child molestation or human trafficking. Is charged properly?

Carter: He is, and those questions will be answered in due time, and they certainly should come from the prosecutor and not from me, but eventually when that PC (probable cause affidavit) is released that will be clear.

I agree. That's certainly how they're talking.

I'm just curious why they charged him this way if that's the case. Let's say the felony that they're alleging is the kidnapping. The way I would expect to see it charged if RA was the killer is:

2 counts of murder under Ind. Code § 35-42-1-1(1): "knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;"

2 counts of kidnapping under Ind. Code § 35-42-3-2.

Additional counts for tampering with a body, sexual assault (if there was any), etc.

Basically if they charge under (1) instead of (2), they could also separately charge him with whatever the associated felony is. The advantage of that is he would receive separate sentences for each of those crimes and they could run consecutively. So 65 years for the murders + 20 years for the kidnappings + etc.

It could very well be that this is just a placeholder charge and they'll get around to charging the rest later. But even in that case, I find it somewhat surprising the placeholder charge is under subsection (2) instead of (1).

It's not a big deal. Felony murder is a very serious charge. But in the absence of the AA, the charges are the only hints we have as to what they think happened. And the way they charged it is a little odd. What that means? I do not know.
 

positive

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It doesn't matter what the family wants. If it's needed, it will be played.
Also, believe it or not, families can and do play a role in prosecution. For instance, if a family does not wish to go thru all the horrors of evidence in a trial, they can push for a plea. This has happened and does happen. Not saying anything about the family in this case. Just mentioning that families do have input regarding prosecutions.
 

Prime8

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Please link the Indiana penal code that says this. ALL the sections under Indiana's Murder charge state "You killed a human and......."
35-42-1-1(2): 2017 Indiana Code :: TITLE 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: ARTICLE 42. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON :: CHAPTER 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Indiana coroner's handbook "The Law of Homicide", Page 4, "Malice aforethought as the intent to commit an inherently dangerous felony is referred to as the felony-murder rule. When a person voluntarily commits an inherently dangerous felony (that is, a felony likely to result in the use of force or resistance by the victim, such as robbery, rape, or aggravated assault), that person knows that a foreseeable result of the commission of the felony is the killing of another human being. Traditionally, any death resulting from the commission or attempted commission of an inherently dangerous felony has been defined as a murder. This is true even where the killing is accidental, and where the decedent is the intended victim of the felony, or a bystander, or even an accomplice of the accused." - https://www.in.gov/ctb/files/appendix1.pdf

Indiana defense attorney blog: How It Is Possible to be Convicted of Murder Without Killing Anyone
 

watcher9

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When troopers at the Indiana State Police post in Lafayette slapped handcuffs on Richard Allen and told him he was under arrest for the killings of two girls abducted from the Monon High Bridge east of Delphi in February of 2017, the clock started ticking on the Carroll County man’s constitutional rights of presumed innocence.

An initial hearing two days later without the presence of a lawyer, moves from the Carroll County Jail to the White County Jail to the Indiana Department of Correction for his own safety and the almost unheard-of sealing of the Probable Cause Affidavit detailing the case against Allen could give the defendant’s eventual legal counsel an opening to challenge the charges lodged against his client.

 

positive

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I agree. That's certainly how they're talking.

I'm just curious why they charged him this way if that's the case. Let's say the felony that they're alleging is the kidnapping. The way I would expect to see it charged if RA was the killer is:

2 counts of murder under Ind. Code § 35-42-1-1(1): "knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;"

2 counts of kidnapping under Ind. Code § 35-42-3-2.

Additional counts for tampering with a body, sexual assault (if there was any), etc.

Basically if they charge under (1) instead of (2), they could also separately charge him with whatever the associated felony is. The advantage of that is he would receive separate sentences for each of those crimes and they could run consecutively. So 65 years for the murders + 20 years for the kidnappings + etc.

It could very well be that this is just a placeholder charge and they'll get around to charging the rest later. But even in that case, I find it somewhat surprising the placeholder charge is under subsection (2) instead of (1).

It's not a big deal. Felony murder is a very serious charge. But in the absence of the AA, the charges are the only hints we have as to what they think happened. And the way they charged it is a little odd. What that means? I do not know.
This is only the charge to arrest or hold. I believe that the charges will added to. I would guess a minimum of 5 more charges.
 

Boxer

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When troopers at the Indiana State Police post in Lafayette slapped handcuffs on Richard Allen and told him he was under arrest for the killings of two girls abducted from the Monon High Bridge east of Delphi in February of 2017, the clock started ticking on the Carroll County man’s constitutional rights of presumed innocence.

An initial hearing two days later without the presence of a lawyer, moves from the Carroll County Jail to the White County Jail to the Indiana Department of Correction for his own safety and the almost unheard-of sealing of the Probable Cause Affidavit detailing the case against Allen could give the defendant’s eventual legal counsel an opening to challenge the charges lodged against his client.

Barry Morphew’s was sealed also. The DA in this case looks
more competent so hope nothing goes wrong from the DA asking the court for an exception to the rules of court proceeding transparency.
 

flashy09

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BBM

“Investigators have alleged that Abby and Libby were forced under threat to leave the bridge by a man whose voice and image were captured on one of the cell phone of one of the girls and their bodies were discovered several hundred feet on a piece of land along the bank of Deer Creek.

Experts tell FOX59 News that the felony murder statute provides prosecutors with leeway to charge multiple individuals with participation in a murder even if they played only a supporting role.”
One of the most disturbing elements of the KAK transcripts for me were the Sandy Hook victim pictures. I had no idea this sort of thing existed. I try to put it out of my mind, but I often wonder if KAK wanted to sell some photos and RA was "hired." Or maybe someone else hired RA and KAK provided the account to view them. I just feel like it's going to be something really sinister. I hated typing all that out but between the latest PC and the sealed documents I can't shake the same awful feeling I had as when I first read the transcript.
 

steeltowngirl

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I don’t know either. I guess it will all become known once the documents are available. But I’m torn about the whether or not the probable cause affidavit should be unsealed in a couple of weeks.

Like nearly all of us here, I have been long invested in this case. The arrest itself was a cause for celebration among those who have followed the case for years. Of course I am now curious about how and why the arrest came to be, but I can easily wait until next year for the details. Part of me prefers to wait and not spend the holiday season pouring over the documents (selfish reason).

Part of me wants them unsealed because that‘s just how it works with most cases. I fear that holding them back will fuel concerns of some type of political agenda, or lack of evidence. Anything that people can’t have - they will clamor for with greater intensity.

Part of me sides with BP and KG simply because they want them to remain sealed, and what they want is good with me. It’s their family member. I am also concerned that evidence released to the public too soon may later be motioned to suppress by RA’s defense.

Maybe it’s best to leave the documents sealed. I can’t see a downside that won’t resolve itself later, once they are unsealed. Perhaps now is the time to let cooler heads prevail and just watch as the case follows due process.

It is a high-profile and emotionally charged case, but at the end of the day, I suppose it’s not that much different from any other sad homicide case I have followed. The suspect’s guilt must be proven in court and a jury must find for his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. We have waited this long, we can wait a bit longer.

I keep trying to settle myself down and not lose sight of that.

jmo
 

Gardenista

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When troopers at the Indiana State Police post in Lafayette slapped handcuffs on Richard Allen and told him he was under arrest for the killings of two girls abducted from the Monon High Bridge east of Delphi in February of 2017, the clock started ticking on the Carroll County man’s constitutional rights of presumed innocence.

An initial hearing two days later without the presence of a lawyer, moves from the Carroll County Jail to the White County Jail to the Indiana Department of Correction for his own safety and the almost unheard-of sealing of the Probable Cause Affidavit detailing the case against Allen could give the defendant’s eventual legal counsel an opening to challenge the charges lodged against his client.


Finally the MSM addresses the DP. This is what I've been saying since we got the charges. They charged him in this manner because they are going to seek the DP. I'm curious to find out if I'm right or if it was charged in this way because he merely participated.

Allen is charged with two counts of felony murder in which aggravators could include kidnapping, child molesting or child sex trafficking, factors that could be considered by the Carroll County Prosecutor on whether to pursue the death penalty for the murders of Abby and Libby.
 

positive

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I don’t know either. I guess it will all become known once the documents are available. But I’m torn about the whether or not the probable cause affidavit should be unsealed in a couple of weeks.

Like nearly all of us here, I have been long invested in this case. The arrest itself was a cause for celebration among those who have followed the case for years. Of course I am now curious about how and why the arrest came to be, but I can easily wait until next year for the details. Part of me prefers to wait and not spend the holiday season pouring over the documents (selfish reason).

Part of me wants them unsealed because that‘s just how it works with most cases. I fear that holding them back will fuel concerns of some type of political agenda, or lack of evidence. Anything that people can’t have - they will clamor for with greater intensity.

Part of me sides with BP and KG simply because they want them to remain sealed, and what they want is good with me. It’s their family member. I am also concerned that evidence released to the public too soon may later be motioned to suppress by RA’s defense.

Maybe it’s best to leave the documents sealed. I can’t see a downside that won’t resolve itself later, once they are unsealed. Perhaps now is the time to let cooler heads prevail and just watch as the case follows due process.

It is a high-profile and emotionally charged case, but at the end of the day, I suppose it’s not that much different from any other sad homicide case I have followed. The suspect’s guilt must be proven in court and a jury must find his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. We have waited this long, we can wait a bit longer.

I keep trying to settle myself down and not lose sight of that.

jmo
Does a part of you believe in the right to a speedy trial?
 

SMK777

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Without knowing the evidence, why is there questions as to what RA was charged with? I don’t get it. It’s a serious charge, call it felony murder if you want, that can qualify for the death penalty, if the Prosecution chooses to go for it. It does not require additional aggravating circumstances.

Murder is a higher-level charge with more serious potential penalties than any level of felony in Indiana. When the prosecution can prove at least one aggravating circumstance exists, it can request the jury or judge to consider a sentence of life in prison without parole or death. Indiana Code § 35-50-2-9 specifies the conditions that qualify as aggravating circumstances in Indiana murder cases:
  • Intentional murder in the course of committing arson, burglary, child molestation, criminal deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, carjacking, organized crime, dealing cocaine or other narcotics, or in criminal confinement
Agree fully.
 

Boxer

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About collecting DNA for a felony arrest. New law as of 2018 in Indiana:

Indiana authorities are now required under a new state law to collect a DNA sample from those who are arrested for a felony crime. The law that took effect Monday requires that police collect a DNA cheek swap, along with fingerprints and photographs, during the booking process.Jan 2, 2018
 
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