Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[Marzipan]

Not saying this is what happened but here's some food for thought on the Delphi and KAK connection. We are 30 charges in with KAK and there is no charge that involves actually meeting someone. There are some good indications that nothing about KAK is really about KAK. Two comments in the transcript of his interview obtained by MS stuck out to me -- it's the part where KAK says his father had sex with a girl KAK brought home and bringing his father into the sex play with girls KAK video chatted with online. It is not wildly unheard for teams to catfish-- one person reels the person in and the other one runs the last mile. Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein are an example.

What if KAK was the facilitator?

In this world, he would set the situations up on social media and, then, hand off the rest to others by giving them access to his account, where they would have the images and have the ability to further engage the victims and potential victims.

At the end of the day, his Googling of the Marathon gas station, if true, makes my hair stand up.

Now, this all, I recognize, stretches the bounds of sanity as a theory, and a more likely explanation is the murders of Abby and Libby cause ISP to double down on child SA and CSAM cases, which leads to Kline. And just like drunks hang out in bars, and sometimes go to the same ones, the two cases may be linked because they involve knocking on a lot of the same doors.

Either way, we will find out soon

I think it’s a very reasonable theory and a lot like those other people have considered for at least the 3.5 years since I started following, even before we knew of KAK or that there was for certain any catfishing (but some here were always very suspicious there was). And since we learned that there indeed was catfishing, it seems way more likely. You articulated it really well.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I would love to see discussions/info about RA as to where he has lived, worked, been associated with (places - not people) and other possible unsolved crimes in those areas.

He grew up in Mexico, Indiana before moving to Delphi in December 2006 and has lived in the same home since then according to FOX 59 citing public records. It's a 40 min. drive from Mexico to Delphi. I can't help with any other info.

 

[Le Singe]

This sentence structure reminds me of the old English teacher grammar joke "let's eat grandma".

Based on structure or punctuation, it's saying the girls were murdered on the 13th (and they were), and at some unspecified time or day after that event, he went to the CO and said he was on the bridge.

Or, it's saying that literally he went to the CO on the 13th, the same day they were murdered.

I read it as the former, since it doesn't say he went to the CO on the 13th, but that he went to the CO after the girls were murdered on the 13th.

jmo

i felt the same way. To me is unclear whether they are specifying he we to the CO shortly after the murders on the 13th or if theu are saying the murders were on the 13th and RA went to the CO some unspecified "short time" later which could even be days later.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Wow, no real relevant past performance is given for the lead - just current. Nothing for Rozzi.
JMO

Bradley A. Rozzi is a partner at Hillis, Hillis, Rozzi and Dean. He's a 1991 graduate of Logansport High School and earned a Bachelor of Science Degree in Criminal Justice ... He went on to earn a Masters Degree in Criminology from Indiana State University and ultimately his Juris Doctorate from the University of Toledo School of Law in 2001. In 2002, he was admitted to practice law in Indiana and immediately began working with his father-in-law, John R. Hillis, in Logansport.

His primary areas of concentration include criminal law, divorce and child custody law, adoptions, and guardianships.

He's successfully defended several major felony cases including murder, attempted murder, burglary, child molestation and drug offenses. He's represented clients accused of committing multiple murders and other heinous acts and is death penalty qualified in the state of Indiana.


Logansport, Indiana Law Attorney Bradley A. Rozzi | Hillis, Hillis, & Rozzi | Logansport, Indiana Lawyer | Estates, Wills, Corporate, Real Estate Law

 

[CaliSun]

Not necessarily replying to you as much as the linked article.

But BBM part is just mind boggling. I can’t imagine anyone else was even on the bridge that day, yet the killer mentioned it that afternoon?? It says “right after” the murders? I swear if we find out he was covered in blood when he told them he was on the bridge my head might just explode.

I’m just trying to Understand how this took 5.5 years to solve? Seems 5.5 hours should have been plenty of time.

IMO I 100% agree with you. Seems almost like collusion on the CO part. How do you forget that critical clue? MOO

 

[gizmobtj]

You could be right in many ways.

As someone who professionally sees photographs from the absolutely most horrific crime scenes, often it takes a minute to even recognise a human in front of you. Horrid to say. And each one of the photos and videos stays with me forever. Definitely middle of the night sleep-loss material…

I think that's a great point. I have seen 271 bodies of people who have died of unnatural causes (yes, I keep count) because of my former job, and for the first 60 or 70 so it felt like "what's that."

 

[Le Singe]

I wonder the conservation officer dropped the ball? Maybe wrote something that BG said he was on the trail the day before or the day after?

You know, humans are flawed and do make mistakes.

The "fact" that he told a conservation officer and not an official member of LE was actually pretty clever in that respect

i don't think this is the case b/c there is a record of it in the case file so the CO obviously passed the information on and that would have been the end of his responsiblity. The CO (this is the same thing as a game warden right?) isn't tasked with investigating the case he/she was likely just helping in the search etc.

 

[gizmobtj]

I think it’s a very reasonable theory and a lot like those other people have considered for at least the 3.5 years since I started following, even before we knew of KAK or that there was for certain any catfishing (but some here were always very suspicious there was). And since we learned that there indeed was catfishing, it seems way more likely. You articulated it really well.

That makes me wonder. Do we know if LE recovered their phones or was everything they captured from uploads and cloud storage? And, if LE got the phones, what on Earth wad BG thinking? Well ...

 

[CaliSun]

i don't think this is the case b/c there is a record of it in the case file so the CO obviously passed the information on and that would have been the end of his responsiblity. The CO (this is the same thing as a game warden right?) isn't tasked with investigating the case he/she was likely just helping in the search etc.

CO are LE in Indiana.

Become an Indiana Conservation Officer

Learn what it takes and how to become an Indiana Conservation Officer

www.in.gov

Simply jotting down the info doesn't suffice IMO. Such a small town, suspect and CO known to each other? It just doesn't add up IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

i felt the same way. To me is unclear whether they are specifying he we to the CO shortly after the murders on the 13th or if theu are saying the murders were on the 13th and RA went to the CO some unspecified "short time" later which could even be days later.

IMO ‘right after’ the murders RA went to the CO would mean to me on that same day as opposed to days later but have no way of knowing if this source is providing reliable information. But if it is, why I’m thinking that is if anyone noticed RA that day by voluntarily coming forward as a ploy, it gives the appearance he wasn’t involved rather than LE having to track him down if he remained silent. JMO

“Right after Abby and Libby's death, Allen went to the officer and said he was on the Monon High Bridge that afternoon, but that he didn't see the girls, according to the source.”

Delphi murder cops 'forgot suspect's huge admission five years ago'

THE suspected killer in the Delphi murders made a shocking admission years ago that was forgotten by cops until now, police have revealed. Richard Allen, 50, was arrested on October 26 and then cha…

www.the-sun.com

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: Discussing/referenced removed posts is a violation of TOS> ..someone asked me where are the links supporting that he was an alcoholic.

Not to mention that we have no access to his medical diagnosis, but here are certain articles indicating that RA had an episode of domestic incident when drunk and was taken by his wife to the hospital for a medical evaluation (that drunk? Mental component? Medical consequences from drinking?$.

Suspect Richard Allen involved in ‘domestic incident’ two years before Delphi murders

Libby, 14, and Abby, 13, were murdered in 2017 after setting off on a hike along the Monon High Bridge Trail in their hometown of Delphi

www.independent.co.uk

This article is even more interesting. Tobe Leazenby said that RA was “drunk and wife took him to the hospital for medical evaluation”, same case, but:

There is a photo of young KA (with dark hair) and RA. What would you say about his eye color?

Delphi suspect faces murder charges with underlying offenses

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen had his initial bail set at $20million after he was arrested for the 2017 slayings of two teenage girls in Indiana.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[TL4S]

Allegedly, RI said this in an early print interview at the same time he first mentioned '3 signatures' and it was later removed at the request of LE because Ives felt it shouldn't have been said. This might be true as even some reputable people seem to have run with it since.

Whilst searching RI stuff I re-watched this from a year ago. Interesting to note that he felt the case would be solved in 2-3 days. RI states with the evidence at the scene and video/audio of BG that you'd be able to solve the case even in the 1960s with what LE have.

Well worth a re-watch for tidbits. Fox59 Robert Ives Interview

Thank you for answering! I've been so confused where this was coming from. I sure wish we knew for certain, because that's a significant detail. What was he specifically referencing when he supposedly said it?

 

[MistyWaters]

<modsnip: Discussing/referenced removed posts is a violation of TOS> ..someone asked me where are the links supporting that he was an alcoholic.

Not to mention that we have no access to his medical diagnosis, but here are certain articles indicating that RA had an episode of domestic incident when drunk and was taken by his wife to the hospital for a medical evaluation (that drunk? Mental component? Medical consequences from drinking?$.

Suspect Richard Allen involved in ‘domestic incident’ two years before Delphi murders

Libby, 14, and Abby, 13, were murdered in 2017 after setting off on a hike along the Monon High Bridge Trail in their hometown of Delphi

www.independent.co.uk

This article is even more interesting. Tobe Leazenby said that RA was “drunk and wife took him to the hospital for medical evaluation”, same case, but:

There is a photo of young KA (with dark hair) and RA. What would you say about his eye color?

Delphi suspect faces murder charges with underlying offenses

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen had his initial bail set at $20million after he was arrested for the 2017 slayings of two teenage girls in Indiana.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Did you notice the incident in the article occurred two years prior to the murders, not immediately following.

 

[The Observer]

Thank you for answering! I've been so confused where this was coming from. I sure wish we knew for certain, because that's a significant detail. What was he specifically referencing when he supposedly said it?

Allegedly when discussing the crime scene he said it had 'non-secular elements' to it.

Pretty sure even Sheryl McCollum said she heard and/or used the term 'non-secular' regarding the scene on her WS live with Trish.

 

[verbonica]

Allegedly when discussing the crime scene he said it had 'non-secular elements' to it.

Pretty sure even Sheryl McCollum said she heard and/or used the term 'non-secular' regarding the scene on her WS live with Trish.

Could the person have said, or meant, non-sequitur -- meaning something that doesn't follow in logical order?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Carroll County officials are meeting this week to determine how to handle the anticipated rush of media and onlookers who will throng to the county courthouse in downtown Delphi next Tuesday for the first public hearing into the case.

RMA is currently housed at the Westville Correctional Facility under the control of the Indiana Department of Correction and may attend the hearing in person now that he's represented by two court-appointed attorneys. He’s been charged with two counts of Felony Murder.

RMA voluntarily came forward in the early days of the investigation and admitted he was in the vicinity of the bridge that day.

Judge Gull is inclined toward the release of the document and Doug Carter said he is not opposed to the release, that, “the Probable Cause stands on its own,” and, “the investigative quality will not be affected by its release.”

The most significant detail that could be released would confirm the investigative process that led detectives back to RMA 5 1/2 years after he first came forward.

Carroll County prepares for hearing into Delphi murders case

 

[The Observer]

Could the person have said, or meant, non-sequitur -- meaning something that doesn't follow in logical order?

You're definitely not alone in wondering that and it's possible, but IMO no.

 

[mrjitty]

I’ve wondered why two deer would be attracted to the area where two bodies were lying at all? Honestly that is just so bizarre to me. I’m no expert on animal behaviour but it just seems odd to me. Deer are not going to eat the remains. Would the bodies smell odd to them and keep them away generally? Would the presence of so many people in the general area in the time before the girls were found keep them away? Apparently not - but why not? Was there a station set up to draw deer into that general area? If so, why? So weird. Maybe its not as odd as I think it is…

We have Deer on our property and they tend to follow set routes over many kilometres, so basically they are likely to have been arriving on the scene via one of their trails, IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

I hesitate to talk about KAK because I don’t think he’s involved. But here goes…

How many girls was KAK catfishing? Lots. So many. IMO the chances that any teen girl murdered would have been catfished by KAK was probably pretty high.

It took me a while to wrap my head around Libby being catfished by KAK and killed by someone unrelated but really that’s what seems to be the case.

I think we have to be careful of logical fallacies

The chances of anyone you are talking to over text/chat being murdered is tiny.

But obviously if someone is murdered, they were almost certainly talking with people on text/chat, one of whom may turn out to be criminal, or unusual. This is the trouble with our human instincts as to what is likely and unlikely and reading patterns into things, which were in fact independent events.

It's not that unusual for a murder to subsequently reveal hidden things in the victims life which seem too coincidental, but which turn out to be unrelated. e,g, a secret affair.

Also, viewed from the other side, the catfisher is likely to be busted sooner or later - the odd nature of this reveal feels coincidental, but of course, needn't be significant. So in other words, the murder caused the catfish to be revealed - the catfish does not cause the murder. Libby could have had her phone stolen, which cause the catfishing to be revealed, but then we wouldn't assume the two events are related.

I feel i haven't explained this well!

 

[mrjitty]

What i am wondering with the reporting is whether something else led them to RA, then they looked back and found he came forward early on, or the other way round?

I wonder if someone in the community developed suspicion?