Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

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Boxer

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To me, it looks the opposite, like a well-rehearsed play, like Schiller's "the Moore has done his duty, the Moore can go". Diener gets the case, seals PCA, excuses himself, leaves, passes it to another judge whose job is to keep it sealed. If it is unsealed, even in redacted form, I shall be very much surprised. But maybe i am making too much of it?
MOO Diener most likely was shocked he was doxxed and let go of the case because of it.
 

photographer4

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I do not expect that the PCA is going to be released and I fully anticipate a publication ban over the trial proceedings as well. If they believe others may still be involved, they'll want to go after them as well, and any information may hinder their ability to bring others to justice.

I have no idea whether RA was involved in whole or in some part. I'm not a fan of secret documents and proceedings. But I do understand that if there are witnesses to any part of the crime or the story itself, they should be protected as much as possible, for as long as possible.
 

Boxer

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From your link:

Carter: Well, I think you will remember, I have said from the very beginning, since 2017, a sketch is a sketch. It is not a photograph. That is the first time I have seen that, and I have also indicated over time that once we get where we are today, we will be able to look at the similarities and make a photograph, which will be Richard Allen. I think there is a little bit of both, and I don’t regret that strategy by any means.

So the two sketches per what DC is saying now are indeed both supposed to be BG who in turn is supposed to be Richard Allen. This is where we are today. Are we all on one page now? Is LE all on one page now? I can't tell.
Looking at RA, turn the clock back 5 1/2 years…the young guy sketch a bit of stretch but MOO no more so then the GSK and the many sketches of him.
 

UnapologeticallyAspie

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Respectfully, would someone please politely explain why mostly everyone is having a hissy fit about the judge recusing himself?
Will it or has it hurt A&L’s case, in any way, shape, form or fashion?
I seriously don’t understand what the big deal is. However I’d like to know, to learn why it’s such a big deal.
Please and thank you.

ymmv
 
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photographer4

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Will someone please politely explain why mostly everyone is having a hissy fit about the judge recusing himself?
Will it or has it hurt A&L’s case, in any way, shape, form or fashion?
I seriously don’t understand what the big deal is. However I’d like to know, to learn why it’s such a big deal.
Please and thank you.

ymmv
The big deal is *why* did he recuse himself?

Was it because he / his loved ones were threatened in some way with something? With bodily harm? Death?
If so - who made the threats? And why? If he was feeling threatened, that is a huge deal to anyone, judge or not, and I cannot blame him one bit for recusing himself!

Was it because he felt he could not be impartial for some reason? A conflict of interest perhaps? If so, then so be it. Better he isn't presiding.

Was it because he felt that he / his staff could not handle the pressure? That is ok too. He might be right. It might better in another courtroom if he lacked faith in his staff' and their ability to do their jobs.

The bigger issue would have been if he was aware of his own inability to be impartial or the inability of himself / his staff to handle the case, or was aware of a conflict of interest (any conflict!) and had *failed* to recuse himself. That could be grounds for a mistrial.

I think he made the right call here given the document he put out regarding the case and the public's demand for information and all he wrote in that doc.
 

DetectiveFoyleWannabe

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I'm not so sure the prosecution is ready to go just yet, but they believed they had enough to charge him with murder. It seems that recent developments, whether it be KAK or other person/s or something else are important, are missing and they want it. If they have some doubt whether he was in fact the murderer, then I can only think they believe he played a very significant part in the crime. Every day things are delayed is one more day they have to investigate.

In the early days of this case there was a lot of discussion as to whether or not one or more persons were involved and this stemmed from things said by various LE officers.

The fact is they've charged him with 2 murders, and if they lose at trial they won't get a second chance under the Fifth Amendment double jeopardy rule. If a judge failed to follow the law, there are some limited bases for appeal by the prosecution but I'm sure they'd never want to rely on that.
This case won’t be tried for at least a year. Too much discovery and way too complicated. IMO.
 

JudgeJudi

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Posted Nov 3 and updated Nov 4 Top

“The sketches have been widely discussed since the release of the mug shot of Allen. When asked about them, Carter explained he to this day supports that both sketches — which appear different — were released.

I've always said that the two sketches are simply sketches. They're not photographs. It's a piece of the investigative puzzle. And when we're all done with this, we're gonna be able to meld the two of them together. And we're going to find that individual".

Sketch overlay
Sketch overlay.JPG

'I feel a sense of peace': ISP Superintendent Doug Carter speaks three days after Delphi arrest announcement

I-Team: Allen was charged. The statute that he is charged under, the murder charge, also indicated that he has to have committed another crime, like rape, child molestation or human trafficking. Is he charged properly?

Carter: He is, and those questions will be answered in due time, and they certainly should come from the prosecutor and not from me, but eventually when that PC (probable cause affidavit) is released that will be clear.

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial
 

Dutch77

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While he never stated his exact, specific reasons, he did state:

"The Judge of Carroll Circuit Court has determined that the particular circumstances within the underlying case warrant recusal and dictate that a special judge be appointed in this case." Judge recuses self from Delphi murder suspect case

So my guess is, it's those particular circumstances are directly related to the conduct of content creators that have crossed a line, and made him concerned for his family's safety.

jmo
Can’t blame him, especially if it’s one of the trials where it appears the defendant is guilty but there is enough reasonable doubt to acquit.
 

Alethea

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Respectfully, would someone please politely explain why mostly everyone is having a hissy fit about the judge recusing himself?
Will it or has it hurt A&L’s case, in any way, shape, form or fashion?
I seriously don’t understand what the big deal is. However I’d like to know, to learn why it’s such a big deal.
Please and thank you.

ymmv
I don’t understand the confusion either. I think it was quite clear from the incredibly bizarre and unprofessional “orders” that he issued that he was not prepared for his job - and probably shouldn’t be a judge, period. He recused himself because he wasn’t able to do the job he was elected to do.

I understand it’s stressful and this is a high profile case but judges preside over murders, serial killings, terrorism, hate crimes, and gang cases everyday across the country without rage-quitting so I think ultimately this is a personal issue for this judge and not some weird conspiracy theory thing.
 

iamnotagolem

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I’m going to say this and risk looking like an idiot. Okay both sketches depict full heads of hair. The dna seems weird.

What if BG/RA was wearing a wig and left hair behind which was matched to someone clearly not involved?

Maybe wigs don’t work that way. Anyhow, I’m so far behind on this thread but it sprang to my mind and unfortunately for y’all I decided to share. ;)
 

accordn2me

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I don’t understand the confusion either. I think it was quite clear from the incredibly bizarre and unprofessional “orders” that he issued that he was not prepared for his job - and probably shouldn’t be a judge, period. He recused himself because he wasn’t able to do the job he was elected to do.

I understand it’s stressful and this is a high profile case but judges preside over murders, serial killings, terrorism, hate crimes, and gang cases everyday across the country without rage-quitting so I think ultimately this is a personal issue for this judge and not some weird conspiracy theory thing.
From the article posted above by Dutch77: "“A judge does not have to explain a reason for recusal,” the Indiana Supreme Court said."

Wow! I thought judges had a duty to preside unless for good cause they are required to recuse. I would think good cause would require a statement of the reason(s). This particular judge not only recused himself, he recused all of the judges in his county!
 

Thewiley

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Presumption of innocence until we see otherwise. I hope the DA has a rock solid case.
but nothing that I have read to this point would convict this man.
furthermore, I feel his family is off limits at this time!
 

Ontario Mom

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Leaked because I’m assuming that if it’s leaked that it means it’s come out before it’s been released. But I could be using the incorrect terminology.
If it's leaked, that's BS. Hopefully that doesn't happen, since we would not be free to discuss it here.
 

HistoryNut

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I suspect that the judge has some kind of conflict of interest. Or maybe he was just terrified by what was in the PB. Since he doesn’t have to provide a reason, no one will ever know.

I also wonder if LE knows who the other LE knows who the other actor(s) were If I had to guess, I’d say yes. I believe KAK made a plea deal and identified them. I think we’ll see more arrests pretty soon. All MOO
 

AC4RD

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I'm 100% good with giving LE, the judge, the lawyers, etc. the benefit of the doubt that they know exactly what they're doing in each of their respected professions within the criminal justice system, and will do a good job of doing their job. Unless they give me a legit reason to doubt them.
[sound of applause] Yes, 100%. Sealed documents are an infrequent occurrence in our legal system, the seal is temporary, and a duly appointed judge ruled that leaving some information sealed for now was reasonable and best served the public interest.

Nobody asked the general public if we wanted the dox sealed--and as you point out above, the decision for a temporary seal was made by the only person with the legal authority AND the knowledge of what the documents contain. The system has apparently worked exactly the way it is supposed to up to this point, and criticizing and second-guessing is pointless.

I'm a hard-line old leftist hippie and I LOATHE the idea of secrecy in our legal system. Except in a very few cases when it's approved by a judge--and will later, beyond doubt, be an item for appeal, so if the judge was wrong to seal them, we will know. Ontario Mom, you put it perfectly: they are doing their job, and we just need to wait and see, IMO. ETA: the business of why a judge recuses himself is also not one that requires approval from the general public. The first judge did as he saw fit and if he was wrong, the state legal board and/or appeals courts will decide on it; IMO there's nothing to be gained by arguing about it.
 

Le Singe

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Why would he know what had been found? It's sounds much more reasonable that he had no idea what they found because he knows he didn't have anything to do with it. Also why he overestimated the cost of an attorney. An innocent man does not Google the cost of capital defense attorneys. According to media, RA's wife is behind him and believes in his innocence. His desperate plea to the judge on her and her children's account seems to support this. If his wife did NOT provide testimony implicating him, it stands to reason that she did NOT recognize the cap, jeans, shirt or blue jacket in the video. The judge is not helping by refusing to release the evidence against him. RA shares few physical features with the photo or the sketches. It's been nearly six years. IMO this PD has not earned the benefit of the doubt here. At present, there are several reasons to believe this man is innocent.
if the cops search your house in relation to a murder 1 case and you don't consult or at least look in consulting with an attorney you are very naive and/or making very bad decisions. This is no proof of innocences nor is his wife sticking by him (happens all the time with people that are guilty as home made sin). The only thing that even slightly suggest anything is that the cops/court/state w/e are being so secretive. They do need to release the PCA so some of the crazy speculation can stop.
 

Ravenmoon

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I don’t understand the confusion either. I think it was quite clear from the incredibly bizarre and unprofessional “orders” that he issued that he was not prepared for his job - and probably shouldn’t be a judge, period. He recused himself because he wasn’t able to do the job he was elected to do.

I understand it’s stressful and this is a high profile case but judges preside over murders, serial killings, terrorism, hate crimes, and gang cases everyday across the country without rage-quitting so I think ultimately this is a personal issue for this judge and not some weird conspiracy theory thing.
If the judge stepped down due to fearing for his safety and the well-being of his family, wouldn't that send a message to potential jurors that they too should worry about their own lives?
Isn't this a problem for giving people a message that says " being seated, impartial and fair is dangerous?"
I feel that he has already done some damage through his actions.

JMO
 

Taffy550

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Yep, HistoryNut is spot on. Someone made a plea deal and spilled the beans. I've thought for the longest time the girls were catfished online and lured to the park to meet. That being said, this case is so similar to Lyric Cook-Morrissey, and her cousin Elizabeth Collins. I hope LE is looking at this. JMOO

 
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