Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

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pseudo_hum

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My only problem with this is if RA was interviewed/talked to on the 13th after the murders although it’s a missing persons report wouldn’t he have been muddy and bloody at that point.

Jmo
My understanding, I dont think the conversation happened the same day the girls disappeared. No one knew at that time on 2/13, what had happened. They were considered missing (by the family), but nothing in the media at that point. So when RA spoke to the CO it may have been soon after that date but not on the same date.
 

Le Singe

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Calling the failure to follow up with "RA" a "clerical error" is ridiculous. He came forward to say he was on the bridge.

The idea that no one at LE, at any agency, was like: "let's make a list of the middle aged guys on the bridge between 2pm and 4pm and speak to them again" is absolutely crazy to me.

You'd think a big memo would go out: if ANYONE speaks to ANYONE that admits to being on the bridge, please report it to the core team. Finding people who were on the bridge seems like the single most important thing in this whole case?
especially since the wording of the PCA makes it seem like its literally a handful of people not thousands.
 

Le Singe

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had a weird hunch off what was in the PCA so i decided to check how the market did 2/10/2017 and 2/13/2017 but no dice both days seem to be mild increase .... Of course he could have been heavy gambling with penny stock options or something and still lost his butt despite what the broader market did. Could have introduced a stressor in his life. I doubt most pharmacy techs in rural Indiana are aggressively watching the the market for their 401k more likely and active ticker watcher got roped into some pump and dump scam. Or maybe the watching the stock ticker story is totally made up. Just seems like a really weird story to make up.
 

iamnotagolem

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It's nice to know his attorney confirmed that RA kept his clothes, hopefully there is enough DNA on them to convict.

I do have to agree the Ford Focus looks nothing like a PT Cruiser or a Smart Car, but my teen daughter would disagree. And most people who don't know anything about cars would probably not know the difference.
 

Jscre

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Dotta

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"Why would the police withhold [the cause of death]? The only thing I can think of is it was too gruesome, in their mind, to release," Garrett said. "It seems like there is something more to it than just a gun.

Garrett said it's possible that the gun jammed and the killer turned to another weapon."

 

MistyWaters

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My understanding, I dont think the conversation happened the same day the girls disappeared. No one knew at that time on 2/13, what had happened. They were considered missing (by the family), but nothing in the media at that point. So when RA spoke to the CO it may have been soon after that date but not on the same date.

It’s not true that no one but the family knew the girls were missing. According to early reports officers were canvassing door to door and Libby’s grandfather said “the whole town was helping to search”, in smaller communities word spreads fast. In the early threads there’s links to local media reports. This is just one however it’s was updated the following day.
 

girlhasnoname

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From RA's Attorney Press Release
<snipped & BBM>

The police did not contact Rick after Libby German and Abby Williams went missing,
rather Rick contacted the police and voluntarily discussed being on the trail that day.
Like many people in Delphi, Rick wanted to help any way he could. Rick contacted
the police to let them know that he had walked on the trail that day, as he often did.
Without Rick coming forward, the police probably would not have had any way of
knowing that he was on the trail that day.

Rick volunteered to meet with a Conservation Officer outside of the local grocery
store to offer up details of his trip to the trail on the day in question. Rick tried to
assist with the investigation and told the police that he did recall seeing three
younger girls on the trail that day. His contact with the girls was brief and of little
significance. Rick does not recall if this interaction with the Conservation Officer was
tape-recorded but believes that the Conservation Officer scribbled notes on a
notepad as Rick spoke to him.

2 Things Interesting to me here:

1) We don't know what day RA first contacted LE, it doesn't say it was the 13th, 14th or any date. I don't think it was the day
of the murders because they weren't officially missing persons until the 14th.
2) He agreed to meet with the CO outside of the local grocery store and believes the CO scribbled notes on a notepad?

MOO
 

Forpsy

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Apropos of nothing but weren't we told by someone that RA went to a "conservation officer" about having been on the bridge that day. Said he saw no one? I'm paraphrasing but why do I remember that? JMO
 

WildHuncher

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"Why would the police withhold [the cause of death]? The only thing I can think of is it was too gruesome, in their mind, to release," Garrett said. "It seems like there is something more to it than just a gun.

Garrett said it's possible that the gun jammed and the killer turned to another weapon."

From that link:

Garrett explained that an "unspent bullet is one that has the casing and the projectile still together." To get that, he said one of two things happens: 1.) Someone tries to fire the gun but it's a faulty bullet and it doesn't fire, or 2.) The gun jammed, which Garrett said is common.

It's more like one of three things: 3.) Just to make a threat, someone racks the slide on the gun, not intending to fire. This will eject one cartridge harmlessly except for getting that someone caught if he's dumb enough to murder two girls and leave it behind.

I seriously doubt he intended to fire with unknown numbers of people within easy hearing distance.
 

IceIce9

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It was a Conservation officer, not any kind of police officer, not much training or special skills
needed/ Become an Indiana Conservation Officer
In Indiana Conservation Officers are sworn law enforcement officers.


From the link: Indiana Conservation Officers are fully recognized Indiana police officers”
 

girlhasnoname

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had a weird hunch off what was in the PCA so i decided to check how the market did 2/10/2017 and 2/13/2017 but no dice both days seem to be mild increase .... Of course he could have been heavy gambling with penny stock options or something and still lost his butt despite what the broader market did. Could have introduced a stressor in his life. I doubt most pharmacy techs in rural Indiana are aggressively watching the the market for their 401k more likely and active ticker watcher got roped into some pump and dump scam. Or maybe the watching the stock ticker story is totally made up. Just seems like a really weird story to make up.
Stocks would sound a lot safer than looking at CSAM or tracking a young girl on social media. IMO
 

Le Singe

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Apropos of nothing but weren't we told by someone that RA went to a "conservation officer" about having been on the bridge that day. Said he saw no one? I'm paraphrasing but why do I remember that? JMO
It was all, even the stuff, in the media 3rd and 4th hand tellings so i wouldn't put a ton of stock in the exact details. The PCA shows the file notes from 2017 and it says he mentioned the 3 girls.
 

NoSpoonFeeding

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In Indiana Conservation Officers have jurisdiction anywhere in the state including state waterways.
MOO Having LE capabilities anywhere in the state is not the same as jurisdiction. If a crime occurs in an incorporated city, that city's police have jurisdiction. If the crime is in unincorporated county territory, the sheriff's dept has jurisdiction. The state police have jurisdiction over an accident on the freeway, etc.

Yes, there are lots of areas of overlap so I don't think it is necessary to make a long list or to give examples of more hypotheticals, as basically, LE can figure out who the primary agency would be for investigating a crime, and who would assist.
Conservation Officers would have no "jurisdiction" over the Delphi murders.

Indiana Department of Natural Resources
The role of an Indiana Conservation Officer is centered on being service oriented. As the law enforcement division of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources, we concentrate on full time police work focused on community needs within natural resource laws and rules.

A conservation officer has the same power with respect to natural resources matters and the enforcement of the laws relating to natural resources laws as have law enforcement officers in their respective jurisdictions
 

IceIce9

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Which could also be used as yet another inveterate piece of "circumstantial evidence".

Also this to consider, if it hasn't been mentioned... does Indiana require a front license plate? I believe some states do not.
We don’t have front license plates in Indiana. Our plates are very expensive here, for example I pay over $400 per year for my SUV plate.

Because the plates are so expensive you see quite a few expired plates. People often back in next to a building or park weird to hide an expired plate
 

MistyWaters

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From RA's Attorney Press Release
<snipped & BBM>

The police did not contact Rick after Libby German and Abby Williams went missing,
rather Rick contacted the police and voluntarily discussed being on the trail that day.
Like many people in Delphi, Rick wanted to help any way he could. Rick contacted
the police to let them know that he had walked on the trail that day, as he often did.
Without Rick coming forward, the police probably would not have had any way of
knowing that he was on the trail that day.

Rick volunteered to meet with a Conservation Officer outside of the local grocery
store to offer up details of his trip to the trail on the day in question. Rick tried to
assist with the investigation and told the police that he did recall seeing three
younger girls on the trail that day. His contact with the girls was brief and of little
significance. Rick does not recall if this interaction with the Conservation Officer was
tape-recorded but believes that the Conservation Officer scribbled notes on a
notepad as Rick spoke to him.

2 Things Interesting to me here:

1) We don't know what day RA first contacted LE, it doesn't say it was the 13th, 14th or any date. I don't think it was the day
of the murders because they weren't officially missing persons until the 14th.
2) He agreed to meet with the CO outside of the local grocery store and believes the CO scribbled notes on a notepad?

MOO

Good summary, just one clarification. The girls were officially considered missing when the missing persons report was filed @ 5:30 pm on Feb 13th up until the time their bodies were found shortly after noon on Feb 14th.
 

Gemmie

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We don’t have front license plates in Indiana. Our plates are very expensive here, for example I pay over $400 per year for my SUV plate.

Because the plates are so expensive you see quite a few expired plates. People often back in next to a building or park weird to hide an expired plate
That's a really weird way for a state to do that IMO. It's also wasteful. :( Here we can reuse the same plate for decades, and even transfer it to a new car (although not many dealers know how to do this because hardly any car buyer knows they can ask to keep their old plate!). We have to renew the registration and pay for new tags to go on the plates (front and back) every 2 years. It's not much money (I don't recall the amount but it's not hundreds)!

IN should do it that way IMO. Then it wouldn't have been necessary for RMA to back his car in to hide the plate. ;) It also makes it so you can only get a license # if you see the rear of the car. That's weird and doesn't help LE. "Sorry, officer... I only saw the front of the car so couldn't get a plate number".
 

girlhasnoname

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Good summary, just one clarification. The girls were officially considered missing when the missing persons report was filed @ 5:30 pm on Feb 13th up until the time their bodies were found shortly after noon on Feb 14th.
Yeah I saw your post after I had already posted :) Although I think it would have looked super suspicious to run up to one of the searchers and offer information on the very same evening. He probably experienced a significant Adrenaline Dump and was trying to clean himself up in the hours right after.

I think the news hit the TV stations around 10 pm that night, so he might have called LE on the 14th or after. I wish we knew for sure.

JMO
 

flashy09

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especially since the wording of the PCA makes it seem like its literally a handful of people not thousands.
That was so eye opening to me. I don't think I ever realized he was the only male on the trail during the time frame of the girls being there and that there were only 4 other people (and 3 were leaving) on the trail at all.
 

Gemmie

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That was so eye opening to me. I don't think I ever realized he was the only male on the trail during the time frame of the girls being there and that there were only 4 other people (and 3 were leaving) on the trail at all.
There might have been at least one other out there. I'm not convinced both descriptions (all black, jeans and blue for exampl) and the sketches are of the same guy. There very well could have been another guy out there during that time, along with the women (woman?) and other kids, that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the murders. Just some guy taking a hike like the woman and kids were. That would definitely explain why the sketches and descriptions don't match BG/RMA.
 
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