Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

[mrjitty]

I mean, that's what happens during the trial. I'd rather a potential jury go into it without any bias whatsoever. Do not want a mistrial.

Especially we don't want counsel offering testimony on behalf of the accused that he might not be prepared to give at trial

"Like many people in Delphi, Rick wanted to help any way he could."

 

[Gemmie]

Unfortunately, I do not think the accused killer, RA, had any intentions of abducting anyone via his vehicle. There's simply no way back to the CPS lot without being visible somewhere en route. If abduction via his vehicle was the plan all along, I don't think he would have cornered the girls so far away from his vehicle, either. There was the cemetery and the south private drive, both less visible, both closer to the south end of the bridge, but apparently he didn't know about or chose those options for whatever he had planned. His parking spot, along with having weapons on his person, not to mention hanging around the bridge and cornering them at the end, is highly suggestive of criminal intent, IMO, and while he did, in fact, abduct them, I believe murder was his ultimate plan. JMO.

Yeah, I agree he likely didn't have intentions of abducting them via his vehicle. It's not like he's a single guy that didn't have to be home by early evening or else his wife would wonder where the heck he was. Where would he have taken them in the short amount of time that remained until his wife got home? No idea when that would be but guessing 5pm-ish or at most a few hours after that.

I think he got them where he wanted them. DTH.

 

[Peppery]

If that is true he accessed roaming data

I’m not sure what that means, can you clarify?

 

[Vpq]

I’m not sure what that means, can you clarify?

If he was looking at stocks, he had to have roaming on to access internet data and that service provider would have records how long he was roaming on phone.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Great visual - thank you.

So then is the idea that RA had a gun on him, likely showed it to the girls and/or made it known he was armed and walked with them to the opposite end of the bridge then told them "down the hill" which you see around 8:00 in the video? If so then would they have gone left or right? It appears there's a hill on both sides.

Down both for complete privacy IMO.

 

[LammyTheRobot]

Lamma
As a student of the law, surely you can do your own research.

Well in the jurisdiction I originally studied in (England, the mother of legal systems), a judge couldn’t change the order after it was ordered, sealed and announced. Not unless there was another reason, ie another application. Judges can’t just make orders when they feel like it.

 

[jdglove]

The girls were found on private property, so I'd imagine there weren't other rounds or cases found around the bodies.

But did they look?

If they found a bullet a few feet from the crime scene that was never fired, was not the murder weapon, and had no blood or dna or fingerprints on it, the obvious question to ask is "How unusual is that?"

The obvious investigative step is to run a metal detector over the adjoining area (and beyond just the crime scene). If that was the only bullet, it makes more sense to presume it may have been related to the crime. Especially since there was presumably no independent evidence that any gun was involved in the crime - the girls saying "gun" is suggestive but could have been expressing a subjective fear (like when they said he was creepy).

If there were 1000 bullets of the same type (this is the USA) then that one being there says very little. If there were 1000 and 50 seemed to have marks that could have matched RAs gun, then the one bullet is all but meaningless and not even probable cause IMO.

Doing a thorough investigation rather than assuming things is good practice. There were two other suspects RL and KAK that were suspected based on circumstantial links to the crime scene and/or communications with the girls. RA is the latest, but it has to be proven.

 

[WingsOverTX]

There is no secrecy. The prosecution should not be discussing the facts of the case in the media in the first place. That can jeopardise the right to fair trial.

And the Judge has had to do this to prevent the accused from putting his version in the media when he will likely not testify.

I respect your opinion.

Here in the U.S., a vigorous debate can ensue on this topic and has with frequency. It is a judgment call & this judge certainly has the power to make it. I would err on the side of not gagging even in this case but there are good arguments to be made on both sides re: the appropriateness of gag orders.

Perhaps I am wrong in this case. I don't think so, though.
JMO

 

[Boxer]

RA reported that he saw three girls on the trail. He reported he stood on the platform of the bridge, then sat on a bench. But he never reports seeing the witness who saw him on the bridge. Maybe he never saw her?

Apparently she walked up to the beginning of the bridge. Lots of brush cover there. Like the spot the girls were murdered, you can see the bridge clearly but you are hard to see from the bridge

 

[Boxer]

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159'
Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #159

I don’t think this is a good look for him at all. It feels very manipulative, especially with calling him “Rick”

Note, per the Defense Attorney:

This is not a lost tip, RA met in person with the Conservation Officer outside a grocery store who took took notes during the conversation

The twitter defense Letter to the Press is in the link above.

 

[Yvettea]

Good afternoon. It’s not known at this time how the notes about RA’s meeting with the Conservation Officer have been excluded from this investigation up until now. (Is excluded too strong a word)? We do know the FBI refuses to take all the blame
in what has been a multi-agency investigation.

It’s not entirely clear to me that RA met someone in front of the grocery store. This information comes only from the defense. MOO

 

[m00c0w]

But did they look?

If they found a bullet a few feet from the crime scene that was never fired, was not the murder weapon, and had no blood or dna or fingerprints on it, the obvious question to ask is "How unusual is that?"

The obvious investigative step is to run a metal detector over the adjoining area (and beyond just the crime scene). If that was the only bullet, it makes more sense to presume it may have been related to the crime. Especially since there was presumably no independent evidence that any gun was involved in the crime - the girls saying "gun" is suggestive but could have been expressing a subjective fear (like when they said he was creepy).

If there were 1000 bullets of the same type (this is the USA) then that one being there says very little. If there were 1000 and 50 seemed to have marks that could have matched RAs gun, then the one bullet is all but meaningless and not even probable cause IMO.

Doing a thorough investigation rather than assuming things is good practice. There were two other suspects RL and KAK that were suspected based on circumstantial links to the crime scene and/or communications with the girls. RA is the latest, but it has to be proven.

The round by itself would not be probable cause, but all of the facts together do form probable cause. Even if they had not matched it to his specific firearm (but rather just Sig Sauer P226s in general), it would still be one piece of a body of evidence that would form the overall probable cause. If you took any one element on its own, probably not very strong. Altogether? Easily meets the probable cause threshold IMO.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

But did they look?

If they found a bullet a few feet from the crime scene that was never fired, was not the murder weapon, and had no blood or dna or fingerprints on it, the obvious question to ask is "How unusual is that?"

The obvious investigative step is to run a metal detector over the adjoining area (and beyond just the crime scene). If that was the only bullet, it makes more sense to presume it may have been related to the crime. Especially since there was presumably no independent evidence that any gun was involved in the crime - the girls saying "gun" is suggestive but could have been expressing a subjective fear (like when they said he was creepy).

If there were 1000 bullets of the same type (this is the USA) then that one being there says very little. If there were 1000 and 50 seemed to have marks that could have matched RAs gun, then the one bullet is all but meaningless and not even probable cause IMO.

Doing a thorough investigation rather than assuming things is good practice. There were two other suspects RL and KAK that were suspected based on circumstantial links to the crime scene and/or communications with the girls. RA is the latest, but it has to be proven.

Practically the entire forest floor in the area was gridded and bagged for forensic analysis. Just the leaves presented so much surface area it took better part of year to get through them.

 

[Boxer]

Good afternoon. It’s not known at this time how the notes about RA’s meeting with the Conservation Officer have been excluded from this investigation up until now. (Is excluded too strong a word)? We do know the FBI refuses to take all the blame
in what has been a multi-agency investigation.

It’s not entirely clear to me that RA met someone in front of the grocery store. This information comes only from the defense. MOO

True. But usually lies are reserved for situation with less easily corobotated information.

 

[Yemelyan]

Does anyone else remember that, during the very first or second police press conference after A and L were found deceased, that the police chief, I believe it was, made the statement (paraphrased) ... "Parents need to know what their kids are doing online." ? I've tried to go back and find the specific news conference but I'm not very good at being able to find old news videos, etc. But it seems to me that LE had a pretty good idea way back then what had probably taken place. At the time, we had a discussion here about catfishing and most seemed to think the officer had said as much in that statement.

The reason you might not have been able to find what you remembered is that it wasn't the police chief who said this....in a news conference on February 15th, two days after the murders, Sgt. Kim Riley, who at that time was the public information officer for the ISP in that region, said this:

“I think people need to be cautious and careful,” Riley said. “Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what’s going on in their lives. That’s the most important thing I can say at this point in time.” Source: Police ask for assistance in identifying man seen walking on trail where Delphi teens went missing

I remembered this for a very long time as "parents need to know what their kids are doing online." Then I found this news article and thought I had misheard or misunderstood.

Eventually another poster here pointed out that there was another member of LE who referenced this case and social media. He was the Flora Town Marshal (LE in a neighboring town), perhaps not in the inner circle of the Delphi investigation, but also not totally unaware of what was going on as all local towns were assisting. On March 8th 2017 he said this:

“Parents need to know where their kids are and what they are doing.” Redmon went on to explain, “if there is anything good that has come out of this, it is that kids on social media are being looked into. With social media, anyone can talk to anyone else all over the world.”
“Kids are talking to people they don’t know and some (of these people) have been sexual predators,” he said.
Redmon’s advice to parents is to be parents first and be aware of what kids are doing on social media. “Kids should not be online friends with people parents would not want to stay over at their house,” Redmon concluded. Source: Flora Police discuss dangers connected to social media - Carroll County Comet

It's actually unclear to me if he was speaking about safety for kids in general/his own assumptions or with knowledge of specific goings-on in this case.

 

[AC4RD]

Well in the jurisdiction I originally studied in (England, the mother of legal systems), ... ...

Mother of legal systems? Oh, the ghost of Marcus Tullius Cicero is probably glaring down at you from the afterlife, shaking his head sadly.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Is it possible to cut-and-paste Twitter responses to these threads rather than just providing a link? I have Twitter blocked on my computer.

Like you, I cannot read tweets so including the content would be helpful IMO, too.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Mother of legal systems? Oh, the ghost of Marcus Tullius Cicero is probably glaring down at you from the afterlife, shaking his head sadly.

Right?

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Well in the jurisdiction I originally studied in (England, the mother of legal systems), a judge couldn’t change the order after it was ordered, sealed and announced. Not unless there was another reason, ie another application. Judges can’t just make orders when they feel like it.

IANAL, but judges in the US have a lot of power within their courtroom. Case in point: Judge Cannon whose "special master" order was just overturned. The primary constraint on judges is the appellate process, so if no one challenges a judge's order it will stand, regardless of how egregious it is.

Moo

 

[Yvettea]

True. But usually lies are reserved for situation with less easily corobotated information.

Do you think it will ultimately come to light, how something so critical was excluded for so long?

I’m not inclined to simply believe the defense since they don’t mention the name of the Conservation Officer or the store which could result in verification. Now with the gag order the prosecution and LE can’t elaborate.

Edited by me