Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

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MistyWaters

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Then it doesn't seem reasonable that he knew the info about the 3 girls (witnesses) because it hadn't been released yet. Did he make a good guess on 3? Wasn't there another that actually talked to him? Making 4?

That’s right, he wouldn’t have known if they gave statements to LE or what they recalled, infact until the PC was released LE had never released any identifiable details regarding any possible witnesses. One girl spoke to the media early on about her friend sighting a “man in black” on the trails but that was about it.
 

layer

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Sorry for arguing so much its a minor point. The last thing i will say just to clarify I personally 150% think RA is a pedo and would not be surprised in the least that LE have evidence of this. I just don't think Alice was implying she had knowledge of it.
Got it, anyway thanks for directing me to their podcast. I'm listening to the one on Kyron right now. That case always bugged me.
 

iamnotagolem

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Right, it was a .40 S&W... but was it a Sig Sauer?

The reason I ask is because Sig ammo is not all that common compared to say, Winchester or Federal or Hornady or Remington or Speer or CCI or PMC.

opplanet-sig-sauer-40s-w-165gr-elite-v-crown-jhp-20-e40sw1-20.jpg
I've wondered that, too. I was even wondering if maybe RA got a free box of SigSauer ammo when he bought his P226 and just hasn't put many rounds through it. If it was a SigSauer round I wonder if that's why the previous rumors of it being a Sig were so common. I'd imagine not many people buy SigSauer ammo and much less buy it for a non-Sig gun.
 

layer

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I've wondered that, too. I was even wondering if maybe RA got a free box of SigSauer ammo when he bought his P226 and just hasn't put many rounds through it. If it was a SigSauer round I wonder if that's why the previous rumors of it being a Sig were so common. I'd imagine not many people buy SigSauer ammo and much less buy it for a non-Sig gun.
Exactly! I know a couple of my Sigs came with that free ammo deal.
 

asyousay

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Am I alone in thinking he didn’t plan this?


I just can not wrap my head around this being planned when it’s such a moronic crime. Why would he drive his own car and do it on his own doorstep when he was worked locally?
 

JnRyan

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Right, it was a .40 S&W... but was it a Sig Sauer?

The reason I ask is because Sig ammo is not all that common compared to say, Winchester or Federal or Hornady or Remington or Speer or CCI or PMC.

opplanet-sig-sauer-40s-w-165gr-elite-v-crown-jhp-20-e40sw1-20.jpg
I don't believe the particular ammo is mentioned. I would hope that LE used the same as the cartridge at the scene to avoid differences between manufacturer's cases.

My experiences with Sig ammo are very good. I had one gun that problems with firing or ejecting. Sig was the only reliable ammo with that gun. I no longer have it due its unreliable status.
 

Gemmie

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Am I alone in thinking he didn’t plan this?


I just can not wrap my head around this being planned when it’s such a moronic crime. Why would he drive his own car and do it on his own doorstep when he was worked locally?
Evil urges that someone that doesn't have those kind of urges find it hard to understand those that do?
 

legalmomma

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DELPHI, Ind. — “This is not settled science.”

Tania Brief, a senior staff attorney with The Innocence Project, is talking about a type of commonly used forensic examination accepted by law enforcement and courts for decades: tool mark analysis.

It is how the Indiana State Police Laboratory says it confirmed an unfired 40-caliber cartridge was ejected out of a handgun of Richard Allen. The unfired round was found between the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. This is the only piece of publicly disclosed evidence linking the accused killer to the crime scene.


To understand how such a match is determined, we talked with Chris Monturo who has 26 years of experience and a forensic consulting and testing company in the Cincinnati area.

FOX59 Investigates asked how confident he was that he could match a cartridge to a specific gun. Monturo responded that he’s “absolutely confident” because of his training and experience.


This will be the biggest hurdle for the State IMO
 

AC4RD

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It's simple whoever did this is unquestionably a pedo in reasonable peoples minds.
(rsbmff) I'm not sure that's a certainty, honestly. Pedophiles, as I understand it, are attracted to prepubescent children; Libby and Abby were older.

And I wouldn't personally call RA a hebephile; I lack the credentials for diagnosing it ( Hebephilia - Wikipedia ) or other paraphilias. I don't know that we can really SAY someone is afflicted with such an illness based on what we read in the news, if you see my point?

And we might think Bridge Guy / the murderer was a hebephile, but perhaps he isn't attracted sexually to those kids, it might just be that he thought teenieboppers would be easy victims. I'm just thinking we really shouldn't make medical or psychiatric judgements without more information and actual credentials--see what I mean? Thanks! --ken
(Edited to add: I see a lot of discussion on this subject; I replied before I read all of it, but I stand by my belief that you can't diagnose asthma without pulmonary testing, and you can't diagnose hebephilia on the basis of some acts that are not, as of now, legally proven, and without some appropriate training. JMHO.)
 

Le Singe

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Am I alone in thinking he didn’t plan this?


I just can not wrap my head around this being planned when it’s such a moronic crime. Why would he drive his own car and do it on his own doorstep when he was worked locally?
i think he planned it to a degree. I think he might not have planned for sure that it would be THOSE girls THAT day, but i think he had this type of crime in his mind at this location and was just waiting for an opportunity. He used the end of that bridge tactically to trap them. He knew you could go down the hill there and reach a place where you could cross the river where it was ankle deep. and he knew he could escape by the grave yard (not ideal). I don't think this was a completely shooting from the hip if you will. He had thought this through and fantasized about it many many times IMO.
 

CNYDarkStar

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i think he planned it to a degree. I think he might not have planned for sure that it would be THOSE girls THAT day, but i think he had this type of crime in his mind at this location and was just waiting for an opportunity. He used the end of that bridge tactically to trap them. He knew you could go down the hill there and reach a place where you could cross the river where it was ankle deep. and he knew he could escape by the grave yard (not ideal). I don't think this was a completely shooting from the hip if you will. He had thought this through and fantasized about it many many times IMO.
This is pretty much my thinking on it. He was hunting and it came to fruition no matter how much of a close call it was. He had to know how much risk he was taking considering the people he saw.

Where he chose to park and the "odd manner" in which he supposedly did, would be questionable as well, given that there is a parking area at the trail.
 

Silver_produce0

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I had a random thought as I sit here watching the Iowa/ISU basketball game. We’ve been wondering if there really was communication with Libby through the AS account scheduling a meeting at the bridge. We’ve assumed it would be over sole social media but what if he talked to them through a headset while playing video games? That could be why there might not be any “proof” that AS truly set up a meeting. It could have been verbal and would there even be a trace of that if it was done through an XBox or Play Station?
 

TL4S

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And I've always thought he was. Why else would a seemingly normal man with a family, home and job go off the deep end and murder 2 teenage girls? It was in his mind, he planned this, he executed it with quite a bit of precision except for Libby catching him on video.

I think it's something he's fantasized about for a long time, and I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't heavily into CSAM with or without the KK connection. Wonder if there are any other victims of RA, not murders per se, but S A victims or stalking, peeping charges that weren't reported? Maybe there will be other victims that come forward.

Just speculating, MOO
Like ski mask peeper? I'd be interested to know if RA had Monday afternoons off.
 

TL4S

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Am I alone in thinking he didn’t plan this?


I just can not wrap my head around this being planned when it’s such a moronic crime. Why would he drive his own car and do it on his own doorstep when he was worked locally?
The moronic moves he made that day, along with the circumstantial but alarmingly close timing in proximity to the girls arrival, makes me think it was not planned for that day, at that location, but an opportunity arose when he found out, last minute, that the girls would be at the bridge.

Just one scenario I consider, namely if there is an online connection, is that the killer had been watching L (or A) on SM. BP has stated that the girls asked about going to the bridge around lunchtime/1pm. So if they posted on SM about it soon after, and the killer was watching from somewhere local to Delphi, he would have had time to grab weapons and go to the trail before the girls got there. Maybe he'd stand on the first bridge platform to get a feel for where he could take them, where the creek was shallow, etc., all from his bird's eye view.

I can't imagine what would trigger him that day, whether planned or not, to kill two girls, but where he parked alone seems to indicate haste, imo.
 

everybodhi

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Snipped & BBM>
First would be an innocent explanation that hey, RA frequented the trails and woods and often carried his gun on him. He kept it unloaded because he was only going to use it just in case. In Indiana with a firearm permit, that's his right. The bullet fell out at some point and through weather, elements, etc. got kicked around the ground and happened to be next to the girls bodies after someone else committed the murders.

Second is ballistics experts who would testify that whatever methods LE used are junk science, not reliable, no way to tell, etc.

I think the bullet will end up being extremely important to the prosecution here because right now it's the only known piece of physical evidence that ties RA to the murder scene. So you have to either explain that away by saying it was happenstance and a lot of people walked those trails and by that creek or you have to try to distance your client from it and say that's not from my gun. I highly suspect they'll opt for the second one.
I’m catching up so this may have already been addressed, RA is quoted in the affidavit from his voluntary Oct 26, ‘22 interview that he has not been in the location where the bodies were found so the defense can not now claim he could have dropped the bullet at another time.
He also said he has never loaned the gun to anyone.
Forensics can tell if the bullet was recently dropped when they found it anyway.
I think the second defense, junk science on the markings, is the only bullet defense.

Richard Allen Probable Cause Affidavit
“Richard Allen stated he had not been on that property where the unspent round was found, that he did not know the property owner, and that he had no explanation as to why a round cycled through his firearm would be at that location. Furthermore, he stated that he never allowed anyone to use or borrow the Sig Sauer Model P226.”
 

steeltowngirl

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Am I alone in thinking he didn’t plan this?


I just can not wrap my head around this being planned when it’s such a moronic crime. Why would he drive his own car and do it on his own doorstep when he was worked locally?
I can’t wrap my head around it either. Yet I do believe he planned to be there and planned an assault. Perhaps he didn’t plan the murders, and had other intentions (maybe SA), and the scene escalated.

I would expect that the motive will be brought forward at trial. There’s not a requirement of motive to bring a conviction, but if the case is mostly circumstantial, a jury will want to know the why.

jmo
 

TL4S

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So when RA said he was cat fishing watching, that had to be around 2pm, right? Because of Trail Woman's timing? If LE has other video of L and A and the "stuff girls talk about," especially if it covers most their time on the trail, that would put RA in a bind as to why he didn't see them. I still suspect there was an encounter on the trail prior to the bridge, which in part influenced L starting her video. IDK...
 
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