Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

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5W's said:
Yes, but the thing is why did RL lie? Why was KAK talking to the girls he is a 28 year old man behind a male model's photo.
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I'm pretty undecided about RL at this time. All I can really say there is that the PCA for his search seemed strong in proving it worth getting that warrant.

KAK, on the other hand, gets no free pass from me. There was only one reason for him to be communicating with L, and frankly, I'll be shocked if he was not intentionally or unintentionally involved in placing her killer on her path.
 
5W's said:
Yes, but the thing is why did RL lie? Why was KAK talking to the girls he is a 28 year old man behind a male model's photo.
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As far as I’m aware we know why RL lied and it was due to a driving license ban.


It’s up to people if they wish to believe there is more to it than that. But the facts are he is a dead man who has never been arrested in relations to this crime. KAK is obviously quite different due to the crimes he has committed and he was in communication with Libby I believe it was.
 
5W's said:
Yes, but the thing is why did RL lie? Why was KAK talking to the girls he is a 28 year old man behind a male model's photo.
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Exactly what's been said over and over again. Because he didn't want to get caught with another OWI that would land him in jail... which in the end, did land him in jail for 4 years. We only know a little bit of info about RL's interactions with LE. We can surmise that initially, LE was likely very interested in only a few hours of his time - the time he lied about.
 
Two points concerning RL: He apparently wasn't as physically well as many thought; the judge took the fact that he had a physical illness into consideration as a mitigating factor during his sentencing. The second thing is his sentence was modified on 01/16/2018, when he was released and placed on home detention. It's all in his case file 08D01-1704-F6-000024
 
Prime8 said:
Exactly what's been said over and over again. Because he didn't want to get caught with another OWI that would land him in jail... which in the end, did land him in jail for 4 years. We only know a little bit of info about RL's interactions with LE. We can surmise that initially, LE was likely very interested in only a few hours of his time - the time he lied about.
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The trouble is that doesn't seem to be what happened, hence the continual concern over why he created a false alibi for the 2pm/2:30pm timeframe.

Logan admitted violating his probation and the Court’s no-driving order with less than a month to go when he visited a county waste transfer station the day Libby German and Abby Williams were murdered, their bodies found on his property the next day, and two weeks later when he was spotted drinking a beer at a Tippecanoe County pizza restaurant.

fox59.com

Delphi property owner gets nearly four years in jail for traffic charges

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind.– The owner of the land where two Delphi girls were found murdered in February was sentenced to almost four years in prison on illegal driving charges. Ron Logan, 77, plea…
fox59.com fox59.com

So he was jailed for an event before the murders and not the time he created a false alibi for and for an event two weeks after the murders.

> We can surmise that initially, LE was likely very interested in only a few hours of his time - the time he lied about.

But he created a false alibi (9:30am on 14th) likely before any LE had talked to him about any timeframe.

I keep seeing the claim that his false alibi was to avoid being charged over DWI, but:
- is there any evidence that RL stated that?
- is there any evidence that RL was driving and/or drinking in the 2pm-4pm time slot?
 
Salah11 said:
As far as I’m aware we know why RL lied and it was due to a driving license ban.
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SBMFF

We don't all believe that RL asked for an alibi due to a DL ban. Here's why I don't believe that.

1) He only asked for an alibi before the girls were even found, and during the timeframe when the murders first went down.

1671131594995.png


2) He drove to the transfer station that morning and didn't feel he needed an alibi for driving without a license before the murders happened.

1671131794408.png


Lastly, LE thought the creation of an alibi prior to them being found indicates knowledge of that crime.

1671131653131.png

So to me, his seeking an alibi wasn't about not getting busted for driving without a license, it was about covering his butt when a murder on his property went down. I do not believe he's the killer, but I do think he knew what was going on when it was actually happening. If not, why ask your cousin to lie about a trip to another city during the exact timeframe a murder (and whatever else) transpired? And NOT ask for one for a transfer station run before the murders even took place?

ETA - Oopsie! Forgot to include my source: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf
 
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Gemmie said:
SBMFF

We don't all believe that RL asked for an alibi due to a DL ban. Here's why I don't believe that.

1) He only asked for an alibi before the girls were even found, and during the timeframe when the murders first went down.

1671131594995.png


2) He drove to the transfer station that morning and didn't feel he needed an alibi for driving without a license before the murders happened.

1671131794408.png


Lastly, LE thought the creation of an alibi prior to them being found indicates knowledge of that crime.

1671131653131.png

So to me, his seeking an alibi wasn't about not getting busted for driving without a license, it was about covering his butt when a murder on his property went down. I do not believe he's the killer, but I do think he knew what was going on when it was actually happening. If not, why ask your cousin to lie about a trip to another city during the exact timeframe a murder (and whatever else) transpired? And NOT ask for one for a transfer station run before the murders even took place?

ETA - Oopsie! Forgot to include my source: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf
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Why do you think he was never charged with giving a false statement to police?
Clearly LE didn’t just walk away from what was written in the PC. Maybe upon further interviews who was where and when got straightened up?

Considering he was never charged with anything directly related to the murders and the search warrant was written over 5 years ago, IMO we’re getting far to caught up in things we may never know the answer to.
 
I guess a lot of us will just continue to bang our head's against the wall in regards to RL.

I'm not saying it's not possible that he's involved in a conspiracy, but it's not probable. We have a smidgeon of information about his conversation with the police, maybe about a handful of sentences out of what is likely hours and hours of conversation. Stating that there's no way that RL would try to create an alibi to cover a time when police wanted to know exactly where he was, and he was doing something illegal, is not outlandish.
 
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Prime8 said:
I guess a lot of us will just continue to bang our head's against the wall in regards to RL.

I'm not saying it's not possible that he's involved in a conspiracy, but it's not probable. We have a smidgeon of information about his conversation with the police, maybe about a handful of sentences out of what is likely hours and hours of conversation. Stating that there's no way that RL would try to create an alibi to cover a time when police wanted to know exactly where he was, and he was doing something illegal, is not outlandish.
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It’s not a conspiracy. iIf you choose to believe he was trying to avoid a dui even though his false alibi didn’t relate to that at all, that’s your choice. His alibi had nothing to do with his driving that day.

I am not convinced RL had anything to do with Libby & Abby’s death, but him asking for an alibi for when they were killed at 9a on 2/14 is suspicious.
 
We know the investigation into A_S opened all kinds of ugly.

We know RA was on the bridge that day, dressed just like BG, exactly when A and L were. Wearing the same clothes BG was filmed wearing.

Two children are dead.

We've got one person providing himself a false alibi for a period of time that is... interesting? suspicious? correlated?

We have KAK who was communicating with under age girls, including L.

We've got RA volunteering that he was on his phone, tracking stocks, says he.

The timing is too ... well-timed... for me to dismiss it.

If not for the video and IMO the girls making it to the far side of the creek, I think a perfect crime may have been the order of the day. Disappeared with nary a trace.

Multiple parties having partial roles... BG the obvious abductor, guilty of murder because it absolutely occurred during the commission of an abduction, times two.

Someone IMO set up the location. Manipulated, perhaps with the aid of Yellow, providing real time tracking, quite possibly with or without the girls' knowledge.

If abduction was only Phase I of a multi-stage crime, IMO then there existed a second location and suitable transportation. A box truck comes to mind. But a car with a trunk or hatch or any truck would do.

Perhaps just such a vehicle was fueled up and ready to go, parked until Phase II launched. Perhaps someone provided a barn to conceal just such a vehicle, until called upon.

Each having a role, each invested In keeping the secret, and maybe murder on RL's property was never part of the plan, and thereby, the reason RL set about attempting to put distance between his person and his property.

And maybe KAK never got to do whatever his active part in this was going to be, because the girls were murdered ahead of Phase II. *shudder*

A number of people using each other, cresting tacit silence because everybody's got fingers in the mud.

JMO
 
iamnotagolem said:
It’s not a conspiracy. iIf you choose to believe he was trying to avoid a dui even though his false alibi didn’t relate to that at all, that’s your choice. His alibi had nothing to do with his driving that day.

I am not convinced RL had anything to do with Libby & Abby’s death, but him asking for an alibi for when they were killed at 9a on 2/14 is suspicious.
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What people are suggesting, RL being involved along with RA, is the literal definition of conspiracy.
 
Gemmie said:
SBMFF

We don't all believe that RL asked for an alibi due to a DL ban. Here's why I don't believe that.

1) He only asked for an alibi before the girls were even found, and during the timeframe when the murders first went down.

1671131594995.png


2) He drove to the transfer station that morning and didn't feel he needed an alibi for driving without a license before the murders happened.

1671131794408.png


Lastly, LE thought the creation of an alibi prior to them being found indicates knowledge of that crime.

1671131653131.png

So to me, his seeking an alibi wasn't about not getting busted for driving without a license, it was about covering his butt when a murder on his property went down. I do not believe he's the killer, but I do think he knew what was going on when it was actually happening. If not, why ask your cousin to lie about a trip to another city during the exact timeframe a murder (and whatever else) transpired? And NOT ask for one for a transfer station run before the murders even took place?

ETA - Oopsie! Forgot to include my source: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf
Click to expand...
I think by 9:20 am on Feb 14th, there is an excellent chance that RL might have realized that the sounds of distress he may have heard on the 13th were from the 2 young girls that were now the focus of the search being conducted by LE. He may have heard the girls crying out during the time they were being attacked by BG... afterall, it was only just over the hill from his main property and he could also have even seen something that day. (BG emerging from the woods covered in blood and mud and walking off down the road?)

He could have spent the night hoping the girls would be found safe and sound. When he saw the amount of searchers the next day he had to know he had plenty to be worried about. Due to his less than stellar history with LE, I think it would be possible he decided he needed to make sure he had an alibi so he could completely remove himself from being suspected by LE once they questioned him a time or two. Of course, he'd be questioned but, if LE couldn't find a hole in the alibi, they'd eventually move on and the pressure would let up.

If LE went around asking questions about him in town, it's sure to come out that he still drives and goes out to bars on occasion but, worst of all, he might be suspected of being the one who attacked the girls. If he heard them the day before because they had a chance to scream out for help then he knows whatever took place could have ended in the worst outcome for the girls because it's the next day and they're still missing. So, it's possible he decided to create an alibi for himself with the help of a family member. LE will ask questions and eliminate him in the long run because LE will soon find out it can't be him that did anything to the girls. Because he wasn't even at home that day during that time period when something horrible happened to them on his property. He has a "solid alibi."

All just opinion as to one possible reason why RL could have attempted to create an alibi (before the bodies were found and just for the time period of the murders) ...and yet be totally innocent of taking part in the girls' murders.
 
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pepper 34 said:
I think by 9:20 am on Feb 14th, there is an excellent chance that RL might have realized that the sounds of distress he may have heard on the 13th were from the 2 young girls that were now the focus of the search being conducted by LE. He may have heard the girls crying out during the time they were being attacked by BG... afterall, it was only just over the hill from his main property and he could also have even seen something that day. (BG emerging from the woods covered in blood and mud and walking off down the road?)

He could have spent the night hoping the girls would be found safe and sound. When he saw the amount of searchers the next day he had to know he had plenty to be worried about. Due to his less than stellar history with LE, I think it would be possible he decided he needed to make sure he had an alibi so he could completely remove himself from being suspected by LE once they questioned him a time or two. Of course, he'd be questioned but, if LE couldn't find a hole in the alibi, they'd eventually move on and the pressure would let up.

If LE went around asking questions about him in town, it's sure to come out that he still drives and goes out to bars on occasion but, worst of all, he might be suspected of being the one who attacked the girls. If he heard them the day before because they had a chance to scream out for help then he knows whatever took place could have ended in the worst outcome for the girls because it's the next day and they're still missing. So, it's possible he decided to create an alibi for himself with the help of a family member. LE will ask questions and eliminate him in the long run because LE will soon find out it can't be him that did anything to the girls. Because he wasn't even at home that day during that time period when something horrible happened to them on his property.

All just opinion as to one possible reason why RL could have attempted to create an alibi (before the bodies were found and just for the time period of the murders) ...and yet be totally innocent of taking part in the girls' murders.
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Stepping off that, if he did hear something and did see RA, perhaps he went out to investigate, secure his property. If he came upon that scene, he'd have known the timeframe, he'd know how bad it was going to look for him and he'd have first-hand information about the crime scene he'd never be able to unsee, something that might come across poorly when investigated, but again innocent. First witness to the crime scene. Everything else to distance himself from it.

JMO
 
Prime8 said:
What people are suggesting, RL being involved along with RA, is the literal definition of conspiracy.
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In any way. Talking, nodding, and certainly any material or support etc.
pepper 34 said:
I think by 9:20 am on Feb 14th, there is an excellent chance that RL might have realized that the sounds of distress he may have heard on the 13th were from the 2 young girls that were now the focus of the search being conducted by LE. He may have heard the girls crying out during the time they were being attacked by BG... afterall, it was only just over the hill from his main property and he could also have even seen something that day. (BG emerging from the woods covered in blood and mud and walking off down the road?)

He could have spent the night hoping the girls would be found safe and sound. When he saw the amount of searchers the next day he had to know he had plenty to be worried about. Due to his less than stellar history with LE, I think it would be possible he decided he needed to make sure he had an alibi so he could completely remove himself from being suspected by LE once they questioned him a time or two. Of course, he'd be questioned but, if LE couldn't find a hole in the alibi, they'd eventually move on and the pressure would let up.

If LE went around asking questions about him in town, it's sure to come out that he still drives and goes out to bars on occasion but, worst of all, he might be suspected of being the one who attacked the girls. If he heard them the day before because they had a chance to scream out for help then he knows whatever took place could have ended in the worst outcome for the girls because it's the next day and they're still missing. So, it's possible he decided to create an alibi for himself with the help of a family member. LE will ask questions and eliminate him in the long run because LE will soon find out it can't be him that did anything to the girls. Because he wasn't even at home that day during that time period when something horrible happened to them on his property. He has a "solid alibi."

All just opinion as to one possible reason why RL could have attempted to create an alibi (before the bodies were found and just for the time period of the murders) ...and yet be totally innocent of taking part in the girls' murders.
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MOO his house is 1/4 mile away from the CS, through trees were bare the forest floor was a blanket of sound dampening leaf fall, as well as being by a creek, it seem ms too far to hear a yell or two, especially if RL was in his house.
 
Prime8 said:
What people are suggesting, RL being involved along with RA, is the literal definition of conspiracy.
Click to expand...

My feeling is the relevance is RL is as a prepack defence - playing on conspiracy with jurors. Better yet, he can't give evidence.

Prosecution, as charged, simply had to prove RA is bridge guy to BARD standard

Defence i expect to throw mud at the wall along the lines that the prosecution themselves have indicated others might be involved. So excluding those others as BG is the challenge for prosecution.
 
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