Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[Boxer]

Now I’m feeling evermore confident that Richard Allen is guilty as charged since his defense is still not prepared to argue for bail after all this time. MOO

Agree.

 

[steeltowngirl]

RA's defense team is now asking to delay the bail hearing that was set for next week, saying that they need more time to prepare: Defense asks for delay in Feb. 17 bail hearing for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen

According to the motion, the defense said it has “yet to receive the entirety of discovery” from the state and was “not yet prepared to proceed with the bail hearing.”

Allen’s counsel anticipated receiving the remaining discovery materials by the end of the week and said it lacked “adequate time to review the discovery in preparation for the bail hearing.”

As a result, the defense is asking Special Judge Fran Gull for a delay. If the hearing is continued, the defense acknowledged the court would likely have to push back Allen’s trial, which is scheduled for March 20, 2023.

From the article:
“But Allen’s attorneys have argued that the evidence wasn’t strong enough to keep Allen behind bars as he awaited trial.”

^So defense basically says the existing evidence is not strong enough to keep RA behind bars, but they want to see MORE evidence before a bail hearing to get him out from behind bars.

 

[FrostedGlass]

02/07/2023	Motion for Continuance Filed DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO CONTINUE BAIL HEARING AND JURY TRIAL SETTING Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 02/07/2023
02/17/2023	Hearing Session: 02/17/2023 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
03/20/2023	Jury Trial Session: 03/20/2023 9:00 AM, Rescheduled Session: 03/21/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/22/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/23/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/24/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/20/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/21/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/22/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/23/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/24/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Comment: First Setting

 

[FrostedGlass]

Judge should have set a time for discovery to be turned over, IMO. Here's a refresher:

12/30/2022 = Motion Filed
Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.

01/09/2023 = Order Issued
Court orders Defendant's Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence set for hearing January 13, 2023 at 10:00 a.m.

01/23/2023 = Order Issued
Court now grants in whole the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication. Court takes Defendant's Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence under advisement.

02/07 = the defense said it has “yet to receive the entirety of discovery” from the state

 

[Vaderman]

From the article:
“But Allen’s attorneys have argued that the evidence wasn’t strong enough to keep Allen behind bars as he awaited trial.”

^So defense basically says the existing evidence is not strong enough to keep RA behind bars, but they want to see MORE evidence before a bail hearing to get him out from behind bars.

Is this a normal tactic defense plays? Or the beginning to set the wheels in motion for a plea bargain?

If I truly was innocent of a crime, I would not want to spend another day in jail and would be completely against delaying my release.

 

[somequestions]

Is this a normal tactic defense plays? Or the beginning to set the wheels in motion for a plea bargain?

If I truly was innocent of a crime, I would not want to spend another day in jail and would be completely against delaying my release.

If in reality, Richard Allen is guilty based on the evidence, then he is guilty.

But this case leaves you wondering. For example, on the day he parked his car near what is believed to be the old CPS building, why did he then walk to Freedom bridge area to begin his walk down the trail instead of entering near the same entrance as Libby and Abby were dropped off at? It does not make a lot of sense.

 

[Megnut]

If in reality, Richard Allen is guilty based on the evidence, then he is guilty.

But this case leaves you wondering. For example, on the day he parked his car near what is believed to be the old CPS building, why did he then walk to Freedom bridge area to begin his walk down the trail instead of entering near the same entrance as Libby and Abby were dropped off at? It does not make a lot of sense.

Does make sense if he met someone in/near that lot or in/beyond/from that direction. For example, a phone with a tracker. My MOO but not impossible.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

If in reality, Richard Allen is guilty based on the evidence, then he is guilty.

But this case leaves you wondering. For example, on the day he parked his car near what is believed to be the old CPS building, why did he then walk to Freedom bridge area to begin his walk down the trail instead of entering near the same entrance as Libby and Abby were dropped off at? It does not make a lot of sense.

I suppose it depends if one believes the murders were premeditated and RA intentionally targeted Libby and Abby knowing in advance about their outing to the bridge - or he was simply an opportunist, looking to carry out some kind of morbid fantasy or unleash buried anger (motive unknown to us), who chanced upon them when nobody else was around.

ETA The 2nd possible scenario is an example of an unplanned crime, given the circumstances and opportunity. This was actually mentioned by LE at one time but as I can’t find the link it can’t be considered a direct quote.

 

[Falling Down]

If in reality, Richard Allen is guilty based on the evidence, then he is guilty.

But this case leaves you wondering. For example, on the day he parked his car near what is believed to be the old CPS building, why did he then walk to Freedom bridge area to begin his walk down the trail instead of entering near the same entrance as Libby and Abby were dropped off at? It does not make a lot of sense.

There's a short trail leading from where he parked to the main trailhead for the MHB trail, which is at the east end of the FB. Otherwise, he would have had to have walked C.R. 300.

 

[Niner]

@FrostedGlass - I waited a couple of days - to see if there is another court hearing date yet for Allen since his 2/17/23 on the bail review was cancelled by the defense needing more time.

TIA!

 

[FrostedGlass]

No. You're welcome.

02/07/2023	Motion for Continuance Filed DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO CONTINUE BAIL HEARING AND JURY TRIAL SETTING Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 02/07/2023
02/17/2023	Hearing Session: 02/17/2023 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ
03/20/2023	Jury Trial Session: 03/20/2023 9:00 AM, Rescheduled Session: 03/21/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/22/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/23/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/24/2023 9:00 AM, Cancelled Session: 03/20/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/21/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/22/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/23/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 03/24/2023 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Comment: First Setting

 

[Yemelyan]

I suppose it depends if one believes the murders were premeditated and RA intentionally targeted Libby and Abby knowing in advance about their outing to the bridge - or he was simply an opportunist, looking to carry out some kind of morbid fantasy or unleash buried anger (motive unknown to us), who chanced upon them when nobody else was around.

ETA The 2nd possible scenario is an example of an unplanned crime, given the circumstances and opportunity. This was actually mentioned by LE at one time but as I can’t find the link it can’t be considered a direct quote.

Was it this quote you were thinking of?

From the Carroll County Comet:

Q In your professional opinion, would you describe the deaths of the six females as “planned”?

A. No. Rather, “victims of circumstance or opportunity.”

This was from TL answering questions from Carroll County readers, link here: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

The "six" females in his answer was about the four Flora Fire victims plus Abby and Libby.

 

[MistyWaters]

Was it this quote you were thinking of?

From the Carroll County Comet:

Q In your professional opinion, would you describe the deaths of the six females as “planned”?

A. No. Rather, “victims of circumstance or opportunity.”

This was from TL answering questions from Carroll County readers, link here: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

The "six" females in his answer was about the four Flora Fire victims plus Abby and Libby.

Yes thank you! What that means to me is the girls, all six as a matter of fact, were vulnerable victims of circumstance due to their location in somewhat remote portion of the trails and (Flora) in upstairs bedrooms without working smoke detectors. Their tragic deaths resulted from someone sighting them and taking the opportunity to abduct them to an even more remote location off the bridge and (Flora) to start a fire, in both cases without being seen while committing the crime. JMO

 

[Gemmie]

Was it this quote you were thinking of?

From the Carroll County Comet:

Q In your professional opinion, would you describe the deaths of the six females as “planned”?

A. No. Rather, “victims of circumstance or opportunity.”

This was from TL answering questions from Carroll County readers, link here: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

The "six" females in his answer was about the four Flora Fire victims plus Abby and Libby.

Wow! That was the first I've seen/heard all those Q&A's! Things that stood out for me in your link:

Q. No matter how distant, do you have the man walking on the bridge, videoed by Libby, on any other video?
and...
Q. Why have no other photos from Libby’s phone been released to the public?
A. This is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond.
Gemmie: While the answers very well could be No (they don't have to say one way or the other) but sounds like it could be likely there's more. Woohoo!

Q. You have said you recognize the voice on the video. Do you recognize it as a jail inmate, other law enforcement team or person you know outside your employment sphere?
A. I still have not been able to pin it down. In my 30+ year career or even, as with most of us, we have heard certain voices but have difficulty in recalling exactly who it is.
Gemmie: The reporter dropped the ball by not asking next "Have you ever personally picked up scripts at CVS or ever frequently JC's Bar & Grill?" Miss op IMHO.

Q. It has been stated in a press conference that “it was all over by 3:30 on Feb 13.” This statement was based on what information?
A. Evidence. I do not recall a specific time though but rather a time line.
Gemmie: I find the above very interesting. They had to know it was bloody/muddy/"in a fight" guy due to the time he was seen. My guess is it takes ~13-15 min or so to walk from where it went down, to where he was seen. Hence "it was all over by 3:30".

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[steeltowngirl]

Just noting that the Carroll County Comet q&a with Sheriff Leazenby was from Feb 2021. Prior to the arrest of RA and the now publicly known information about CVS and JC’s.

 

[Gemmie]

Just noting that the Carroll County Comet q&a with Sheriff Leazenby was from Feb 2021. Prior to the arrest of RA and the now publicly known information about CVS and JC’s.

Darn good point! No wonder the interviewer didn't ask that Q. ;-P *sighs at myself*

But now would be a good time to go back and ask those 2 Q's ("Have you ever personally picked up scripts at CVS or ever frequently JC's Bar & Grill?")

 

[MistyWaters]

Darn good point! No wonder the interviewer didn't ask that Q. ;-P *sighs at myself*

But now would be a good time to go back and ask those 2 Q's ("Have you ever personally picked up scripts at CVS or ever frequently JC's Bar & Grill?")

Seems RA blended right in, regardless of places he would’ve been seen.

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen: Indiana town wants answers about man who 'blended in'

Five and a half years after two teen girls were slain, Delphi, Indiana resident Richard Allen has been arrested in the case. His community is shocked.

www.indystar.com

“I’ve been in the business, our business, for a while and I thought, ‘Boy, how’d I even miss that one?” Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, who’s been in law enforcement for 36 years and whose department assisted in the multi-agency investigation, told IndyStar.”

 

[MistyWaters]

From the article:
“But Allen’s attorneys have argued that the evidence wasn’t strong enough to keep Allen behind bars as he awaited trial.”

^So defense basically says the existing evidence is not strong enough to keep RA behind bars, but they want to see MORE evidence before a bail hearing to get him out from behind bars.

Perhaps the reason for delay is RA’s lawyer thinks RA’s chances are better after (if) this bill gets passed by the Senate, arguing that evidence isn’t strong enough to keep him behind bars plus he poses no substantial risk to the public.

Proposal seeks to change Constitution — and who has right to bail in Indiana - Indiana Capital Chronicle

Prosecutors say Sen. Eric Koch's bail bill would keep dangerous people off the streets, while defenders and civil rights advocates say it could endanger arrestees' rights.

indianacapitalchronicle.com

“A Bedford Republican wants to change who has the right to bail in Indiana — and it will mean editing the state’s Constitution to make it happen….

…..In Indiana now, only people accused of murder or treason can’t get bail, as long as there’s enough proof….

……So he worked “with Indiana prosecutors” to draw up SJR 1. Koch’s proposal would let judges deny bail to anyone that they believe — based on “strong” evidence — “poses a substantial risk to the public.”

 

[twall]

Perhaps the reason for delay is RA’s lawyer thinks RA’s chances are better after (if) this bill gets passed by the Senate, arguing that evidence isn’t strong enough to keep him behind bars plus he poses no substantial risk to the public.

Proposal seeks to change Constitution — and who has right to bail in Indiana - Indiana Capital Chronicle

Prosecutors say Sen. Eric Koch's bail bill would keep dangerous people off the streets, while defenders and civil rights advocates say it could endanger arrestees' rights.

indianacapitalchronicle.com

“A Bedford Republican wants to change who has the right to bail in Indiana — and it will mean editing the state’s Constitution to make it happen….

…..In Indiana now, only people accused of murder or treason can’t get bail, as long as there’s enough proof….

……So he worked “with Indiana prosecutors” to draw up SJR 1. Koch’s proposal would let judges deny bail to anyone that they believe — based on “strong” evidence — “poses a substantial risk to the public.”

If that is the case he has a very long wait.
From your link-

There’s a long road ahead for SJR 1.

Because it seeks to change Indiana’s Constitution, two successive general assemblies must approve it: this session, and after a new legislature takes office in 2025.

Then, it would go to ballots in 2026. A majority of Hoosiers would need to support SJR 1 for it to take effect.

 

[somequestions]

I suppose it depends if one believes the murders were premeditated and RA intentionally targeted Libby and Abby knowing in advance about their outing to the bridge - or he was simply an opportunist, looking to carry out some kind of morbid fantasy or unleash buried anger (motive unknown to us), who chanced upon them when nobody else was around.

ETA The 2nd possible scenario is an example of an unplanned crime, given the circumstances and opportunity. This was actually mentioned by LE at one time but as I can’t find the link it can’t be considered a direct quote.

When I look back on what FBI profiler John Douglas said about the case it is ironic. John Douglas said, "You don't wake up one day and commit a double homicide like this."

I know statistically speaking, that it is unlikely Richard Allen is innocent. There is the toolmark evidence on the unspent round placing him at the scene of the crime. But if somehow Richard Allen were innocent, the one question I would like to ask an FBI profiler is whether or not they think the real killer would be following the case now that someone else has been arrested for their crime?