IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

[Hannah3105]

I'm so glad they finally said what needed to be said, IMO, about the secrecy and gag order.

MS has brought up jailhouse snitches at least twice now. Could RA's "suicide companion" be the inmate who wrote the letter to the court? Do we even know RA actually threatened to kill himself. Was he in the suicide watch cell from the beginning?

What’s this about a suicide companion and threats to take his own life? I seem to have completely missed this having been wrapped up in other trials! Had a quick scan through MSM and can’t see anything…would you mind updating me or pointing me to the relevant WS posts! Thank you!

 

[FrostedGlass]

06/09/2023	Transport Order Entered Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Order Signed: 06/09/2023
06/09/2023	Motion For Transport Order Motion for Transport Order Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 06/09/2023
06/15/2023	Hearing Session: 06/15/2023 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 06/16/2023 8:30 AM, Rescheduled

 

[FrostedGlass]

What’s this about a suicide companion and threats to take his own life? I seem to have completely missed this having been wrapped up in other trials! Had a quick scan through MSM and can’t see anything…would you mind updating me or pointing me to the relevant WS posts! Thank you!

This talks about his cell conditions and mentions "companions" = item 8g. Murder Sheet also discussed his prison confinement but I don't have that link handy.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ALLEN-MOVE-PRISON-REQUEST.pdf

Indiana's prison suicide companion program

In some prisons, people on suicide watch are monitored by peers

People who have threatened to harm themselves can be placed on whats known as suicide watch, where they're constantly monitored by a mental health professional. But in some prisons, suicide watch works differently.

www.wfyi.org

 

[FrostedGlass]

At first, I thought Judge Gull's transport order is to bring RA to his next court appointment. She's done that a couple of times and then sends an automatic e-notice to the parties. There is nothing more involved.

So now I'm confused about RA's Motion to Transfer. Is he asking to be transferred to another facility closer to his atty?

 

[Boxer]

I would say the unspent bullet linked to RA’s gun is the only physical evidence they have that we know of at this time. We know absolutely nothing about evidence collected from the crime scene other than that unspent bullet. and LE and Ives said there was a lot of it.
The prosecution has a tight timeline of witnesses, security video, etc. Again that is only what we know they have. That being said, the witness testimony is corroborated by RA himself which is kinda extraordinary.
RA’s initial interview with LE right after the murders contained very little information. He says he was at the trails, gives approximate times, saw no one but the three teen girls, was checking the stock ticker on his phone.
It was not until LE interviewed him again in 2022 that he discusses what he was wearing and that he actually was on the bridge. Important information he left out.
LE had a witness very early on that had seen a man on the bridge standing on the first platform. This person saw no one else. This witness walking away from the bridge passed two girls believed to be Abby and Libby on their way to the bridge. RA, in 2022, admitted to being on the bridge standing on the first platform. To me, this is the most important circumstantial evidence the prosecution has, again, that we know of. In 2017, a witness saw only one man on the bridge just before the girls got to the bridge. In 2022, RA places himself in that exact spot.
For 5+ years LE begged for tips and specifically a name. I always thought that was odd. Give us a name. Another way of saying, “solve the case for us” I thought. It makes sense now. LE had evidence early. My guess is they tried matching a lot of names to that early evidence and it never matched. Then they got RA’s name and things started to match up, witness statements, timelines, security video, unspent bullet. The last piece of the puzzle.
I am fairly certain they have the right guy. I do not believe anybody else was involved with the murders themselves or someone would have been arrested by now. RA has every reason to rat out any accomplices, but he hasn’t. I kinda doubt anybody was helping him after the fact conceal things for the same reason, no arrests. I do think there were people who might have wondered about if RA was involved but rationalized it away. That’s unfortunate, but it’s not a crime.
RA is apparently not taking well to prison. My thoughts are that there is a lot more d@mning evidence that arrives at RA’s attorney’s offices everyday.
Sorry this is so long.
Just my thoughts as I impatiently wait for a trial or a guilty plea(which I think is very possible).

4 witnesses.
3 girls near FB
1 Walking witness at MHB

RAs own narrative of walking to the bridge.

Timeline is beyond tight, girls on way to bridge passed by witness who just saw RA on bridge.

MOO Lying that he did not see girls walking back own the trail to Mears lot to sit on a bench.

Cycled round from RAs gun at CS.

MO This is why the investigation was kept completely confidential, they had a witness- a witness that would be at terrible risk of being murdered by the unidentified killer from the community if their identity was publicly known.

 

[FromGermany1]

I'm seeing black for the whole court process, if RA already now has serious mental failures.

 

[girlhasnoname]

At first, I thought Judge Gull's transport order is to bring RA to his next court appointment. She's done that a couple of times and then sends an automatic e-notice to the parties. There is nothing more involved.

So now I'm confused about RA's Motion to Transfer. Is he asking to be transferred to another facility closer to his atty?

I'm reading this as a Motion to Transport not Transfer. I think it's about getting RA to court on the 15, 16th if needed, for the bail hearings and possibly a new trial date if the Defense are not ready to proceed.

I think RA will be denied bail and they will reset the trial date.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm seeing black for the whole court process, if RA already now has serious mental failures.

Well, most certainly RA has some mental failures, a defendant in this type of homicide would have to something wrong, but that does not negate guilt.

RA had a clean arrest record, worked a stable job, had a stable home life and was able to function in society (job, pool tournaments, etc.) without difficulty. Even after the murders he was able to continue living and socializing right under the radar.

His threats of suicide (if true) or extreme mental conditions now are in direct response to knowing he is going to face a jury of his peers and answer the charges of killing 2 innocent young girls, and/or creating any type of defense they can muster.

The 'spaghetti defense', throw anything at the wall and see what sticks. I'm confident none of that is going to work.

ALL MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

Well, most certainly RA has some mental failures, a defendant in this type of homicide would have to something wrong, but that does not negate guilt.

RA had a clean arrest record, worked a stable job, had a stable home life and was able to function in society (job, pool tournaments, etc.) without difficulty. Even after the murders he was able to continue living and socializing right under the radar.

His threats of suicide (if true) or extreme mental conditions now are in direct response to knowing he is going to face a jury of his peers and answer the charges of killing 2 innocent young girls, and/or creating any type of defense they can muster.

The 'spaghetti defense', throw anything at the wall and see what sticks. I'm confident none of that is going to work.

ALL MOO

Hopefully. I want the real killer convicted to a lifetime.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'm reading this as a Motion to Transport not Transfer. I think it's about getting RA to court on the 15, 16th if needed, for the bail hearings and possibly a new trial date if the Defense are not ready to proceed.

I think RA will be denied bail and they will reset the trial date.

MOO

Actually, that's how I read it, too; but my brain took it somewhere else. It must be something in that Canada smoke that's coming down here. The judge entered the transport order and then RA made the motion for transport order, which seemed backward to me.

 

[mrjitty]

So it seems the bail hearing is now not happening? Or will happen later?

 

[Niner]

So it seems the bail hearing is now not happening? Or will happen later?

Maybe a combination of both on 6/15?

 

[FrostedGlass]

So it seems the bail hearing is now not happening? Or will happen later?

Here is what is written:

05/22/2023

Motion Filed Motion to Convert Let Bail Hearing into Suppression Hearing Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 05/19/2023

05/30/2023

Order Issued The Court, having had the defendant's Motion to Quash Subpoena under advisement, now grants the Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to Westville Correctional Facility relating to defendant's mental health records, mental health evaluations and/or exams, medical documentation and/or medical evaluations. The Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to Westville Correctional Facility regarding audio/video recordings, written observations, recordings, phone calls, written requests, or other documentation is denied. The Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to CVS Headquarters is denied. The defense Motion to Reconsider and Request for Due Process Hearing ordered set for hearing June 15, 2023, at 10:00 a.m. The hearing currently set on defendant's request for bail is ordered converted to a hearing on defendant's Motion to Suppress. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 05/25/2023

06/15/2023

Hearing Session: 06/15/2023 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 06/16/2023 8:30 AM, Rescheduled

 

[Gemmie]

Hopefully. I want the real killer convicted to a lifetime.

We're not going to have enough prison space for all of the lifetime prisoners there'll end up being.

 

[somequestions]

4 witnesses.
3 girls near FB
1 Walking witness at MHB

RAs own narrative of walking to the bridge.

Timeline is beyond tight, girls on way to bridge passed by witness who just saw RA on bridge.

MOO Lying that he did not see girls walking back own the trail to Mears lot to sit on a bench.

Cycled round from RAs gun at CS.

MO This is why the investigation was kept completely confidential, they had a witness- a witness that would be at terrible risk of being murdered by the unidentified killer from the community if their identity was publicly known.

I understand the probability of why people think it was Richard Allen that murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. In terms of where the witness saw Richard Allen at the Monon High Bridge to the exclusion of anyone else and the fact that he cannot explain what he was doing for an hour and a half after that is concerning.

If there had been something conclusive in the PCA, whether that be finding the murder weapon with one of the girl's DNA on it or finding his DNA on one of the girls or finding the bloody clothes then I would be convinced he is probably the killer. Maybe they were able to forensically match his voice to the voice on the "Down the hill" recording?

Even proving simple details would help. Is LE sure the height of the man they arrested, Richard Allen, is the same height as the person in Liberty German's phone video?

I guess the evidence in this case is all one big secret and once the trial happens and the information is revealed all the pieces will fall into place proving it was Richard Allen. But I wonder whether or not LE have lots and lots of evidence against Richard Allen or just an unspent cartridge ejected from his gun and some witness statements.

 

[Boxer]

I understand the probability of why people think it was Richard Allen that murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. In terms of where the witness saw Richard Allen at the Monon High Bridge to the exclusion of anyone else and the fact that he cannot explain what he was doing for an hour and a half after that is concerning.

If there had been something conclusive in the PCA, whether that be finding the murder weapon with one of the girl's DNA on it or finding his DNA on one of the girls or finding the bloody clothes then I would be convinced he is probably the killer. Maybe they were able to forensically match his voice to the voice on the "Down the hill" recording?

Even proving simple details would help. Is LE sure the height of the man they arrested, Richard Allen, is the same height as the person in Liberty German's phone video?

I guess the evidence in this case is all one big secret and once the trial happens and the information is revealed all the pieces will fall into place proving it was Richard Allen. But I wonder whether or not LE have lots and lots of evidence against Richard Allen or just an unspent cartridge ejected from his gun and some witness statements.

MOO the evidence already released is compelling.
MOO There is nothing "just or mere" about an unspent ejected round matching to his SS p226.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I understand the probability of why people think it was Richard Allen that murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. In terms of where the witness saw Richard Allen at the Monon High Bridge to the exclusion of anyone else and the fact that he cannot explain what he was doing for an hour and a half after that is concerning.

If there had been something conclusive in the PCA, whether that be finding the murder weapon with one of the girl's DNA on it or finding his DNA on one of the girls or finding the bloody clothes then I would be convinced he is probably the killer. Maybe they were able to forensically match his voice to the voice on the "Down the hill" recording?

Even proving simple details would help. Is LE sure the height of the man they arrested, Richard Allen, is the same height as the person in Liberty German's phone video?

I guess the evidence in this case is all one big secret and once the trial happens and the information is revealed all the pieces will fall into place proving it was Richard Allen. But I wonder whether or not LE have lots and lots of evidence against Richard Allen or just an unspent cartridge ejected from his gun and some witness statements.

Certainly is true we don’t know a lot about what else the prosecution has as evidence.
As far as what we do know they have from the PCA, in my opinion, it is pretty convincing.
Circumstantial evidence carries the same weight as direct evidence, like it or not. Instructions to juries that judges give out usually include that. We’d prefer DNA or a picture taken by RA of the murder scene hidden away in his closet but the reality is people are correctly convicted everyday on circumstantial evidence.

 

[sunshineray]

Here is what is written:

05/22/2023

Motion Filed Motion to Convert Let Bail Hearing into Suppression Hearing Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 05/19/2023

05/30/2023

Order Issued The Court, having had the defendant's Motion to Quash Subpoena under advisement, now grants the Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to Westville Correctional Facility relating to defendant's mental health records, mental health evaluations and/or exams, medical documentation and/or medical evaluations. The Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to Westville Correctional Facility regarding audio/video recordings, written observations, recordings, phone calls, written requests, or other documentation is denied. The Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to CVS Headquarters is denied. The defense Motion to Reconsider and Request for Due Process Hearing ordered set for hearing June 15, 2023, at 10:00 a.m. The hearing currently set on defendant's request for bail is ordered converted to a hearing on defendant's Motion to Suppress. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 05/25/2023

06/15/2023

Hearing Session: 06/15/2023 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 06/16/2023 8:30 AM, Rescheduled

I took this to mean the 16th was rescheduled for the 15th. They just bumped it up a day. Probably something conflicted on 16th and 15th was open and good for all?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I understand the probability of why people think it was Richard Allen that murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. In terms of where the witness saw Richard Allen at the Monon High Bridge to the exclusion of anyone else and the fact that he cannot explain what he was doing for an hour and a half after that is concerning.

If there had been something conclusive in the PCA, whether that be finding the murder weapon with one of the girl's DNA on it or finding his DNA on one of the girls or finding the bloody clothes then I would be convinced he is probably the killer. Maybe they were able to forensically match his voice to the voice on the "Down the hill" recording?

Even proving simple details would help. Is LE sure the height of the man they arrested, Richard Allen, is the same height as the person in Liberty German's phone video?

I guess the evidence in this case is all one big secret and once the trial happens and the information is revealed all the pieces will fall into place proving it was Richard Allen. But I wonder whether or not LE have lots and lots of evidence against Richard Allen or just an unspent cartridge ejected from his gun and some witness statements.

LE/State is only required to provide enough evidence in the PCA to get an arrest, that's not being secret.

They're not giving away everything they have, but even so, the witness statements, shell casing, RA's own words about being there in the exact timeframe and wearing similar clothing? I think it's more than enough and who knows what else has come to light since his arrest.

I think there will be a ton of evidence.

ALL MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I took this to mean the 16th was rescheduled for the 15th. They just bumped it up a day. Probably something conflicted on 16th and 15th was open and good for all?

They originally planned for June 15th and had the 16th if needed IIRC.