IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[rosesfromangels]

What do these Odinites do when they are in the woods, near a river conducting a ritual? (Taken from the memorandum)

I’m sorry, I know this thread is about a very serious matter, but your question invoked images of a Monty python skit….

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey folks,

Tricia has just approved long term WSer @Seph as an expert in Odinism, so it will be super interesting to have her input in this thread.

I didn't get to see Tricia's livestream last night but I understand Seph was on there. If you missed that episode, you may want to mosey on over to watch.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I’m sorry, I know this thread is about a very serious matter, but your question invoked images of a Monty python skit….

Amateur opinion and speculation

I looked it up and found a Wiki How on the ritual. Somehow, I have a hard time imagining these fully adult men going down to a creek, cleansing themselves, dressing in shrouds, etc. Are we sure there are no drugs or alcohol involved?

 

[photographer4]

Perhaps he was with the search party who found the girls and saw the scene and the "horns" after-the-fact?

I doubt this - but I'm not sure anything will shock me anymore in this case.

 

[Pitsleuth]

Even if those sticks were random (and I do not believe they were), he stated something to the effect of Abby being a troublemaker, and noted the horns. There is NO way he could have known that sticks were found at her head at all, unless he was there, or knew someone who was who had divulged crime scene details to him or someone he knew who then shared them with him. That is too detailed to be random in my opinion.

It’s random for a girl who likely suffered SA, and at the very least was killed, in the woods to have sticks in her hair?

 

[photographer4]

It’s random for a girl who likely suffered SA, and at the very least was killed, in the woods to have sticks in her hair?

I didn't say it was random - I don't believe it was. And I also want to point out, that the way the document was worded, the sticks weren't in her hair - they were set to look like horns - so ON her head - sprouting from them is how I took that. I'd cite the document but just reset the PC so no longer have it downloaded.

 

[justtrish]

Hi everyone. Have read about this case off and on and am catching up here.

Is there a map of where the bridge is in relation to the location of their bodies, and anything else relevant?

I'm curious about the distance because whoever did this could have been caught in the act, searchers could have heard screaming or noises, etc. How were they so confident that they could commit those crimes in the same area where the girls were last seen and not feel they'd be caught red-handed? Of course the friend who dropped them off knew exactly where they'd left them.

Was it typical for RA to take walks in that area?

The bridge just chills me outside of the murders themselves. I could never, EVER walk across that given its height, NO railing, missing slats, space between slats, yikes, just yikes.

Has there been any concrete mention of DNA evidence? Cannot imagine one or more people doing what they did with the undressing/redressing/etc. not leaving at least one hair or fiber of their own clothing on them.

Yes there is a map. Look at page one of this thread. It has lots of info there and in one of the first couple posts of this thread includes links to a map and many other resources!

 

[Prime8]

This might be totally off, but an idea just popped into my head. Maybe there wasn't blood on the body except at injury site because he slashed her neck in the water? I'm not sure logistically how that would work, but the "clean" body could be because they were near/in water.

Feel free to poke holes in the idea....it's just a thought that appeared out of nowhere.

jmo

I'm hoping/wondering if she was unconscious when the injury was inflicted.

 

[Gemmie]

I didn't say it was random - I don't believe it was. And I also want to point out, that the way the document was worded, the sticks weren't in her hair - they were set to look like horns - so ON her head - sprouting from them is how I took that. I'd cite the document but just reset the PC so no longer have it downloaded.

Here you go...

Pg. 30:

Above Abby’s head were smaller sticks that had been placed over her hair, crudely mimicking horns or antlers.

Pg 39:

63. Once those sticks/twigs are found, then the man acting alone would have to lay the twigs/sticks over Abby’s hair so that they cross and crudely resemble antlers.

Pg 97:

“Elvis told her (his sister) Abigail is a little troublemaker, that he placed leaves on her and used sticks to give her horns.”

Pgs. 97/98:

Find attached a close-up photograph of Abby’s head from the crime scene[133]. From a distance, it may not be immediately noticeable. However, upon closer inspection it is obvious that someone involved in the killings intentionally placed small sticks from a tree on top of Abby’s hair to resemble horns or antlers. The horns formed from sticks on Abby’s head looks similar to the image found on Holder’s Facebook page (Exhibit 97). The Defense has not viewed one single report that discusses the sticks placed atop Abby’s hair shaped like horns/antlers being compared with Elvis’s statement to his sister that he shaped sticks into horns on Abby.

 

[Pitsleuth]

I didn't say it was random - I don't believe it was. And I also want to point out, that the way the document was worded, the sticks weren't in her hair - they were set to look like horns - so ON her head - sprouting from them is how I took that. I'd cite the document but just reset the PC so no longer have it downloaded.

I read the document. Defense may say horns, prosecution may say sticks found in her hair. Given where they were found I’m going to go with sticks in her hair for now. MOO.
ETA- you said it would be random for E to know there were “horns” (sticks) in her hair. I would argue that anyone who knew how and where they were found could guess at that.
I also am not on social media, so have not heard many of the rumors that have circulated regarding the bodies and the case in general.

 

[photographer4]

Here you go...

Pg. 30:

Above Abby’s head were smaller sticks that had been placed over her hair, crudely mimicking horns or antlers.

Pg 39:

63. Once those sticks/twigs are found, then the man acting alone would have to lay the twigs/sticks over Abby’s hair so that they cross and crudely resemble antlers.

Pgs. 97/98:

Find attached a close-up photograph of Abby’s head from the crime scene[133]. From a distance, it may not be immediately noticeable. However, upon closer inspection it is obvious that someone involved in the killings intentionally placed small sticks from a tree on top of Abby’s hair to resemble horns or antlers. The horns formed from sticks on Abby’s head looks similar to the image found on Holder’s Facebook page (Exhibit 97). The Defense has not viewed one single report that discusses the sticks placed atop Abby’s hair shaped like horns/antlers being compared with Elvis’s statement to his sister that he shaped sticks into horns on Abby.

Pg 97:

“Elvis told her (his sister) Abigail is a little troublemaker, that he placed leaves on her and used sticks to give her horns.”

Oh! You're amazing! Thanks!

 

[B4igo2it]

Such a crazy twist this case has taken, and now we learn about Odism. People are a trip! This is heartbreaking to learn of the fate of Libby & Abby.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Here you go...

Pg. 30:

Above Abby’s head were smaller sticks that had been placed over her hair, crudely mimicking horns or antlers.

Pg 39:

63. Once those sticks/twigs are found, then the man acting alone would have to lay the twigs/sticks over Abby’s hair so that they cross and crudely resemble antlers.

Pg 97:

“Elvis told her (his sister) Abigail is a little troublemaker, that he placed leaves on her and used sticks to give her horns.”

Pgs. 97/98:

Find attached a close-up photograph of Abby’s head from the crime scene[133]. From a distance, it may not be immediately noticeable. However, upon closer inspection it is obvious that someone involved in the killings intentionally placed small sticks from a tree on top of Abby’s hair to resemble horns or antlers. The horns formed from sticks on Abby’s head looks similar to the image found on Holder’s Facebook page (Exhibit 97). The Defense has not viewed one single report that discusses the sticks placed atop Abby’s hair shaped like horns/antlers being compared with Elvis’s statement to his sister that he shaped sticks into horns on Abby.

BBM if the defense is admitting the sticks may not be noticeable, I’m going to believe them.

 

[Gemmie]

BBM if the defense is admitting the sticks may not be noticeable, I’m going to believe them.

I think it depends on how close you were whether or not the sticks were noticeable or not.

Fr Pg 97:

Find attached a close-up photograph of Abby’s head from the crime scene133. From a distance, it may not be immediately noticeable. However, upon closer inspection it is obvious that someone involved in the killings intentionally placed small sticks from a tree on top of Abby’s hair to resemble horns or antlers.

 

[kittythehare]

I think it depends on how close you were whether or not the sticks were noticeable or not.

Fr Pg 97:

Find attached a close-up photograph of Abby’s head from the crime scene133. From a distance, it may not be immediately noticeable. However, upon closer inspection it is obvious that someone involved in the killings intentionally placed small sticks from a tree on top of Abby’s hair to resemble horns or antlers.

That reads weird.

No photo will tell anyone who put what anywhere.
Birds?

 

[Gemmie]

That reads weird.

No photo will tell anyone who put what anywhere.
Birds?

As you said, the photo won't tell "who put what (any)where", but to me, it will tell you whether or not they fell out of the trees to land that way, or if birds placed them there (extremally doubtful in either case), or if they were placed that way by someone. That's where I'm placing my bet. Once we see (if we see) the photos, we'll see that it was obvious they were placed in that fashion by a human being, and not by some birds.

We don't need to know the who, just that it was a human, and not nature that did it. All MOO.

 

[LaurelTedytamer]

Hi,
Just caught up with the defense Franks Memorandum my thoughts about it.

First off I hope the girls families were told that this was releasing details about the crime scene. My heart goes out to them. I hope the prosecution answers the memorandum and we are allowed to see their response.

This is defense memorandum and so everything in it is focused on a not guilty of their client so everything in it is with that view.

To me only the jury will decide if the tree branches were to cover the bodies or ritualistic etc we don’t see the photos so we can’t possibly guess.

As for the rest … every possible suspect is going to be brought up by the defense to throw doubt on their client’s guilt.

Currently the prosecution evidence we have knowledge of has been witness sightings and matching the gun casing to RAs gun. The defense are trying to get the search of RA’s home that got the gun evidence to be kicked out …defense doing their job! I really hope that doesn’t happen as the gun casing sounds like the best evidence the prosecution has that we know of.

One thing I heard on Court Tv was a journalist was in the know about the crime scene details before the memorandum. They stated the branches were left at the scene for several days before police went back and collected them. I pray that didn’t happen… chance of touch dna lost?? Beginning to wonder about the police investigation.

Another thing the defense was wanting was cameras in court. I really hope the Judge asks the girls families their opinion on that and follows their wishes.

I know we are Websleuths and want answers and justice but the details of the crime scene upset me so much. I pray justice is found for Abby and Libby. Evidence and facts will be bring it … my hope.

 

[Charlot123]

Oh, but they DID say it.
They mention his name a whopping 425 times in the document.

And I hope he sues them. I wonder if they can be disbarred? (jmo)

View attachment 448425

Well if he sues him, you see, his whole life story will be out, he is an attention-seeker and always was. I bet there will be lots of interesting things to read.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Well if he sues him, you see, his whole life story will be out, he is an attention-seeker and always was. I bet there will be lots of interesting things to read.

Who is an attention seeker?
I am confused.

 

[Charlot123]

Actually since you brought up RL again, I have always wondered since we found out about his asking his cousin to alibi him: what did he know and when did he know it?

Did he see something in the crime scene that he didn’t report? Didn’t want to be involved? Did he have any idea of rituals possibly (alleged!) to have been taking place in his literal backyard? Did he fear the Odins?

I can only remember an old YouTube movie featuring the talk with a couple whose house was not that far from RL's one (same neighborhood). They were sort of snowbirds, I remember, and this guy spoke about a lot of scary activity in his backyard. What I want to say, at that bridge, lots of things happened. I think RL, an old man, lived according to the principle "it's no business of mine". He disliked the police, he probably felt sorry it happened in his backyard, but most of all, he was an old man.