IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[Charlot123]

Who is an attention seeker?
I am confused.

BH.

 

[Charlot123]

I think the defense lawyers are taking advantage of the fact that many Americans have sadly fallen into straight up conspiracy-frenzy thinking. IMO

It is not conspiracy. I think sadly, LE in this case is so much mistrusted that people have hard time to believe that they might be right. I mean, they may be right, with RA, why not, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But we are primed by ever-changing pois and sketches, heights, weights, names. Remember, KK appeared, everyone dropped JBC and followed KK. Now, Odinites appeared, everyone dropped RA and follows Odinites. It's very common for the Delphi case.

 

[mrjitty]

As far as I can see there is literally no evidence that connects any of these supposed alternate offenders to the crime, and evidence which proves they were not involved.

The defence is intentionally conflating a theory of the case with SODDI evidence. Law enforcement create theories of the case to help investigation. Theories of the case, investigative profiles etc are not evidence.

If you have a particular investigative angle, like a stalker/groomer who knew the victim, this might help you ID a suspect. Investigating the suspect should produce evidence if you have the right theory. If it does not produce evidence then maybe your theory is incorrect. This is essentially how theories are discarded until the correct suspect is found.

In this case we had multiple theories that did not produce any hard evidence exactly because the theories were incorrect. That is actually the case with this Odinist nonsense. LE investigated it and found evidence disproving the theory. e.g an alibi.

What the defence claims is evidence is simply theories the prosecution had.

 

[mrjitty]

It seems kind out of character for RL to have been down in that part of his property randomly cutting tree branches with an electric saw. MOO

We commonly do this as trees are damaged in storms etc - you will find dozens of them randomly around the place

 

[Charlot123]

Here you go (from the docs released this week by the Defence, Page 34, point 12).

"12. The autopsy notes taken by Liggett reveal that the pathologist stated that because of the particular vein that was severed, Abby suffered a “slow death.26”

I wonder if it was one of the jugular veins. Yes, you cut any major vein, exsanguination will be slow and painful.

Sometimes I wonder if the person either had a medical background, or wanted to study medicine. Maybe a vet, or a surgeon. Or perhaps, worked in the hospital and observed some procedures being done. There are so many ways to kill a person, but who'd know about the anatomy of that specific area? It is also easy to miss, unless he knew what he was doing.

From what I read, if one person had the dexterity to do it, no way could he be high or drunk.

 

[Salah11]

It is not conspiracy. I think sadly, LE in this case is so much mistrusted that people have hard time to believe that they might be right. I mean, they may be right, with RA, why not, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But we are primed by ever-changing pois and sketches, heights, weights, names. Remember, KK appeared, everyone dropped JBC and followed KK. Now, Odinites appeared, everyone dropped RA and follows Odinites. It's very common for the Delphi case.

Not everybody believed KK was involved thankfully and not everybody believes this new wild conspiracy theory either.

It’s absolutely cockoo to suggest something so outlandish without any proof.

It reads like a bunch of school girls got together over lunch and had a look at Facebook and Reddit and threw together a paper.


MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

We commonly do this as trees are damaged in storms etc - you will find dozens of them randomly around the place

Did you ever look at pictures of his property? Up around his house is well-kept, down along the hill and creek, not so much. He was almost 80 and it was said he was not in good health. I don't think he was down there cutting tree branches. MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

I can only remember an old YouTube movie featuring the talk with a couple whose house was not that far from RL's one (same neighborhood). They were sort of snowbirds, I remember, and this guy spoke about a lot of scary activity in his backyard. What I want to say, at that bridge, lots of things happened. I think RL, an old man, lived according to the principle "it's no business of mine". He disliked the police, he probably felt sorry it happened in his backyard, but most of all, he was an old man.

Old men could be as bad as younger men or even more bad or brash/brazen. I'm old myself, I'm allowed to say that.
RL hadn't to be the most evil person in a group of aquaintances, but he had the resources: large property ("backyard"), even more rural than a village, including pastures and forests and half of the creek; a big home, since years without a watchdog-wife around; sheds (if not shacks). He certainly had few scruples either, to let his drinking buddies get away with a lot, IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Old men could be as bad as younger men or even more bad or brash/brazen. I'm old myself, I'm allowed to say that.
RL hadn't to be the most evil person in a group of aquaintances, but he had the resources: large property ("backyard"), even more rural than a village, including pastures and forests and half of the creek; a big home, since years without a watchdog-wife around; sheds (if not shacks). He certainly had few scruples either, to let his drinking buddies get away with a lot, IMO.

I think he probably didn't know about some of the stuff that went on down by the creek. Anyone could have parked at the cemetery and walked down there. I would have strongly considered the possibility of the girls being taken down on that side if LE hadn't shown us the video of him on the bridge.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Here you go...

Pg. 30:

Above Abby’s head were smaller sticks that had been placed over her hair, crudely mimicking horns or antlers.

Pg 39:

63. Once those sticks/twigs are found, then the man acting alone would have to lay the twigs/sticks over Abby’s hair so that they cross and crudely resemble antlers.

Pg 97:

“Elvis told her (his sister) Abigail is a little troublemaker, that he placed leaves on her and used sticks to give her horns.”

Pgs. 97/98:

Find attached a close-up photograph of Abby’s head from the crime scene[133]. From a distance, it may not be immediately noticeable. However, upon closer inspection it is obvious that someone involved in the killings intentionally placed small sticks from a tree on top of Abby’s hair to resemble horns or antlers. The horns formed from sticks on Abby’s head looks similar to the image found on Holder’s Facebook page (Exhibit 97). The Defense has not viewed one single report that discusses the sticks placed atop Abby’s hair shaped like horns/antlers being compared with Elvis’s statement to his sister that he shaped sticks into horns on Abby.

RS&BBM
Pgs. 97/98:

Find attached a close-up photograph of Abby’s head from the crime scene[133]. From a distance, it may not be immediately noticeable. However, upon closer inspection it is obvious that someone involved in the killings intentionally placed small sticks from a tree on top of Abby’s hair to resemble horns or antlers. The horns formed from sticks on Abby’s head looks similar to the image found on Holder’s Facebook page (Exhibit 97). The Defense has not viewed one single report that discusses the sticks placed atop Abby’s hair shaped like horns/antlers being compared with Elvis’s statement to his sister that he shaped sticks into horns on Abby.

Personally, this portion speaks volumes to me. It wasn't noticeable to LE at first makes me think it might have not been as intentional as the Defense would like us to believe.

E's statement(s) to his sister are seem totally fantastical and made up to make himself seem important to me. Cool in a sick way. If E's DNA was on the body, it would have been recovered & tested and the case would have been solved 6 years ago.

Did RA have another actor(s) involved? I think it's possible, but I'm in no way buying the bull crap theory by the Defense. It could have been another perv from the CSAM ring or internet.


JMO

 

[minazoe]

the police have them on audio. the murders happened very fast. there are no additional voices that can be lifted from the recording... no where do I see the Odinist intention for murdering or sacrificing 2 teenage girls.

If RA has accomplices he needs to give them up . treat it like a gang situation. there is no evidence, the staging or symbolism is neither here nor there..check all his notebooks, doodles, video games...maybe RA was an armchair odinist..he may have done this staging intentionally to mislead police.

this is a huge rabbit hole and a lie...there is zero evidence anyone else did this but him. nice try Rick! or Rich or whatever folksy name they are giving you..Ricker? lol. If he put a big L for Luigi does that mean the Mario Brothers did it?

mOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Having been through the McStay and Morhpew cases where the defence actively misled the court, I am extremely sceptical about taking any of this motion at face value.

Frankly the Odinist stuff makes laughable allegations that make no sense on the face of the document - especially the idea that the prison guards are in on it. But let's look at the more obvious misdirections that we know already

* Trigger warnings *

1. The idea of SODDI is the prosecutor got tunnel vision and ignored another potential offender(s). This needs to raise doubt. i.e. it can't just be generic - it needs to be specific evidence raising suspicion against an alternate offender. This document does not show any such evidence. It's just conspiracy theories around something police actually investigated. That investigation is not evidence of SODDI. Indeed the evidence discovered ruled out the offender primafacie!

2. Ditto the FBI profile stuff. This does not implicate any particular offender. Indeed it could apply against RA for all we know!

3. The first interview. Contrary to what the defence alleges, the officer noted the name and street address correctly, but at some stage a transpositional error was made. IMO this is what led to the tip never being followed up. This does not mean the notes are incorrect/unreliable! Indeed the 1.30pm arrival time is verified by the camera image of RA's car, AND his own evidence of meeting the 3 girls, corroborated by the girls. This evidence shows RA in fact lied to officers in his October 22 interview.

4. Based on the accused's own evidence, we can infer it was most likely his car was still parked at CPS. We know he actually entered the trail around 1.30pm based on 3 evidence points. We know witness BB enters the trails sometime after 1.46 and 'sweeps' the trail for us. So where was RA if not on the bridge? There is no way for RA to leave the trails without seeing BB or the victims. I raise this once again to show how the defence is simply misleading about Liggett & BBs evidence because clearly witness BB did in fact leave the trails before RA on any reasonable view. ETA the defendant implicity confessed in prison to being there!

5. The defence does not substantiate that Abby must have been redressed in Libby's sweateshirt and jeans post mortem, except for the blood claims. But is it very likely that if she were redressed by the killer, after two bloody murders, the clothes would be clean? Were abby murdered naked, there will be spray on her skin presumably. What does the autopsy say about this? They don't say. I am certainly not taking this at face value.

6. The lack of blood on Abby's feet or hands - this is obviously extremely unusual. Was she restrained and lying face down then? Because were she free and naked there would certainly be a lot of blood on her body, feet and hands.

The problem with the defence version is obvious - the blood would have to be all over Abby whether she was clothed or not, unless it were prevented in some way. IMO her hands must have been restrained at least - and presumably she was pinned down.

7. The idea in para 66 that Abby was hung like a slain animal to bleed out is obvious nonsense. If she had, her hair would be full of blood which would be totally obvious. the rope marks would also be on her feet. The defence is simply introducing wild speculation at this point based on no evidence.

I could go on ....

In any event, I await the prosecution response to the Frank's aspects. The rest will no doubt wait for trial.

Thank you for this!
Finally a voice of reason.

 

[arielilane]

Curious if all the nonsense is about the Westville move request? moo

The defense has also requested the immediate transfer of Allen from the Westville Correctional Facility, claiming that members of the Odinists work within the facility and are threatening his life. In one instance, the defense claims to have seen “In Odin We Trust” patches on the uniforms of two correctional officers.

They also claim that Allen had mentioned threats from “Odinites” during one of their meeting, and that they had never mentioned their research on Odinism with him before that instance.

The motion comes after the July decision by special judge Fran Gull to not move Allen from Westville Correctional Facility.

Richard Allen's attorneys claim Odinists 'sacrificed' Delphi teens

Richard Allen's defense claims members of Odinism are to blame for the deaths of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

www.courttv.com

Last updated 1:42 PM, September 19, 2023

 

[MistyWaters]

BH.

Considering how many excitedly jumped on JBC’s FB postings supposedly pointing towards numerous “confessions” of guilt, it‘s not really surprising the defence might drum up another SM replica.

 

[MistyWaters]

Did you ever look at pictures of his property? Up around his house is well-kept, down along the hill and creek, not so much. He was almost 80 and it was said he was not in good health. I don't think he was down there cutting tree branches. MOO

It’s not as if there’s electrical boxes anywhere nearby the crime scene so it’s kind of preposterous for anyone to using an electric saw in the bush. Why an electric saw, why not a handsaw or chainsaw? Probably because whoever wrote this imaginary garbage knew absolutely nothing about saws (except for the fact that some are electric) or saw cuts………Why would sticks for runes need to be sawed when dry and fallen branches can easily be broken by hand?….IMO it’s pointless to even attempt to analyze their “evidence” because it’s all just ridiculous.

 

[zh0r4]

let me understand this
how is he/the defence excactly describing the crime and the crime scene ?
was all of this given to them ? ! or is he implicating himself by knowing the crime scene

Page 28, 29, and 30 of the 136 page doc describes the crime scene and cites exhibits. From my understanding the def is describing the crime scene per their perception of the crime scene photos they have.

 

[zh0r4]

I haven't seen the actual document but would love to - If it's linked I need to go find it in this new thread of the old one. Yes, fan fiction meets B-movie meet wishful thinking bullcrap. that is my take just hearing about what the document alleges.

Link to the doc:

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

 

[Pyrite]

It’s not as if there’s electrical boxes anywhere nearby the crime scene so it’s kind of preposterous for anyone to using an electric saw in the bush. Why an electric saw, why not a handsaw or chainsaw? Probably because whoever wrote this imaginary garbage knew absolutely nothing about saws (except for the fact that some are electric) or saw cuts………Why would sticks for runes need to be sawed when dry and fallen branches can easily be broken by hand?….IMO it’s pointless to even attempt to analyze their “evidence” because it’s all just ridiculous.

Many types of saws are battery operated now. So much easier than gas as long as you have the battery charged. And batteries last a decent amount of time.

Search Results for Battery powered saws at The Home Depot

Get free shipping on qualified Circular Saws products or Buy Online Pick Up in Store today in the Tools Department.

www.homedepot.com

ebm to fix a sentence. And remove something that may have looked like snark, but was just poor wording.

 

[FrostedGlass]

It’s not as if there’s electrical boxes anywhere nearby the crime scene so it’s kind of preposterous for anyone to using an electric saw in the bush. Why an electric saw, why not a handsaw or chainsaw? Probably because whoever wrote this imaginary garbage knew absolutely nothing about saws (except for the fact that some are electric) or saw cuts………Why would sticks for runes need to be sawed when dry and fallen branches can easily be broken by hand?….IMO it’s pointless to even attempt to analyze their “evidence” because it’s all just ridiculous.

In My Opinion... I'm not an expert so I'm just guessing that maybe there is a difference between saw cut marks? Or maybe defense is hinting at premeditation?

I think it's OK for you to think it's pointless but maybe others don't. That's ok, too.

 

[MistyWaters]

Page 28, 29, and 30 of the 136 page doc describes the crime scene and cites exhibits. From my understanding the def is describing the crime scene per their perception of the crime scene photos they have.

This reminds me of the photo of the man on the bridge and all the various objects that some people think he’s hiding. Yes, it’s a matter of perception, we’ve been down that road many times.