IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[Charlot123]

Race trader.... race traitor...

Wholp.

But anyway, just exactly what race message would supremacists be sending by killing two of their own?

This is exactly what we don't know, who is their own and who isn't. Defining "their own", white supremacists go by nazi definitions. About Abby, we don't know much, perhaps they did, more. About Libby.. several years ago, I Googled the origin of "German" surname. It does not mean "from Germany" and people of surprisingly different ethnicities can have it.

Now, I don't put much faith on the confession that was probably uttered by a guy high on something local. By the same token, I don't trust confession allegedly made by RA who was probably drunk. None of these guys is the epitome of stability. I believe that RL asking his relatives to cover up for him sounds more suspicious. Maybe someone else in the neighborhood did the same?

 

[Salah11]

The defenders are talking about the dexterity necessary to kill in such a short time (and, should we add, leave no DNA?). RA can be playing pool, anyone can play pool, big deal. We don't know how well he played. What we heard was that RA was drunk on MHB and I doubt that he did have the physical prowess to do it alone.

Furthermore. There were a lot of potential pois, basically, everyone living on that drive plus every young curly white male in the neighborhood. About one of them, 6'2" or so, I immediately felt, no, just look at his legs, he has colossal legs and the BG has rather skinny legs. RA had pretty hefty legs two years ago, too. And, he is beyond their lowest limit, sorry.

RA is 5.7 so well within the height range.

 

[Charlot123]

RA is 5.7 so well within the height range.

That can be definitely said about Richard Allen the field hockey player.

As to Richard Allen of Delphi, the internet is surprisingly silent on the matter. According to the measurements enthusiasts make basing on RA's photo next to the courthouse, no more than 5'3", people of Delphi said 5'4" or below. His drivers' license should say it, but no one posted it. His booking photo looks unprofessional at least.

In fact, he might be 5'3" and still be BG. You see, BB said that he was approximately her height. So, nothing wrong in RA being 5'3".

However, ISP's kerps mum about RA's height or is trying to make him taller on photos. Why? JMO - I think they are trying to erase all memories of the youthful man with curly hair whose sketch they released in 2019 (and immediately asked the public to please not make side-by-side comparisons, but people were still making them.)

 

[Bbgiraffe]

You are correct. It was one of their mothers, which one wasn't specified:

Pg 17: Brad Holder told his ex-wife (name deleted) that “Westfall and ‘his people’ killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German because one of their mothers was ‘mixing’ with other people outside the mother’s race.”

There is only 1 other reference to the word "race" in the entire doc and it didn't answer the Q:

Pgs 57/58:

Brad told her that Westfall and “his crew” had friends in several states and that they have no problem killing “race traders”. I asked her to clarify “race trader” and she said she believed it meant white people who “mix” with other races.

Wouldn't they have killed the mom then? I'm sorry I don't buy it. If she's the one race mixing, she would be killed, not her innocent child and the child's friend who apparently just happened to be there.

 

[mrjitty]

Yep. Basically if there are any potential issues with proving intent (I don't think there would be in this case) or any question of someone else having actually done the killing, then felony murder makes the most sense as the charge.

Yes - like the whole policy reason for these felony offences is to make life easier for the prosecution.

It doesn't matter if there was a whole Odinist convention over the river

 

[mrjitty]

Summary: They received the statement this morning. Mr. Click (former Rushville Assistant Police Chief, now retired) is being careful of what he is saying because he doesn't want to violate the gag order and plans to speak to his attorney to find out the limits.

Exact quote from Mr. Click as read by the Murder Sheet hosts:

"There are two things that I would like to clear up immediately, though. Detective Ferency and Detective Murphy were not Rushville cops. Detective F was a detective from the Terre Haute police department that was assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. Detective Murphy was an Indiana State police detective that was also assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. So, the FBI was associated with the investigation until at least July 2021. Secondly, no one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defence twisting facts for sensationalism. You can quote me on those two items."

Shocked that the defence memorandum alleging that odinist prison guards are trying to fit up the defendant to protect the real killers is not reliable.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Re: the interviews, I interpret that as saying the defense is skeptical about anything allegedly said in those interviews without seeing the videotaped interviews first hand. No idea about the difference between a document and memorandum, is there a difference?

I don't know. I've only seen "memorandum" mentioned in a couple of cases and I didn't pay much attention to it. I think they were in the hearing journal entry or the sentencing; but not a docket entry by itself, like we see when discovery, subpoenas, etc. are filed.
This is the only one I've had access to so I find it really interesting.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The defenders are talking about the dexterity necessary to kill in such a short time (and, should we add, leave no DNA?). RA can be playing pool, anyone can play pool, big deal. We don't know how well he played. What we heard was that RA was drunk on MHB and I doubt that he did have the physical prowess to do it alone.

Furthermore. There were a lot of potential pois, basically, everyone living on that drive plus every young curly white male in the neighborhood. About one of them, 6'2" or so, I immediately felt, no, just look at his legs, he has colossal legs and the BG has rather skinny legs. RA had pretty hefty legs two years ago, too. And, he is beyond their lowest limit, sorry.

I've never seen it said in MSM that RA was drunk on MHB. With all that's gone on in this case, I could have totally missed it. Could you link that or send me in the right direction of that statement? Thanks

 

[girlhasnoname]

Here's the infamous Press Release issued by this dynamic duo of a Defense team.

Angela Ganote
@angelaganote via.fox59.com 5:35 PM, December 1, 2022

 

[girlhasnoname]

Page 2

 

[girlhasnoname]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598445686596726787

Page 3

 

[FrostedGlass]

But he didn't leave at 1:30----he was just arriving at 1:30. He was not on his way out---his car was seen on the way in, at 1:27.

IMO we really have no evidence that was his car. We haven't seen evidence of a license plate number nor any indication that he was the driver of the car on the HH cam. They only see a car that resembled RA's car but look at the other cars they think resemble his.

This is from the PCA: witnesses described a purple PT Cruiser, smart car or small SUV. "Investigators believe those descriptions are similar in nature to a 2016 Ford Focus." ... "Investigators observed a car that resembled Allen's 2016 Ford Focus on the Hoosier Harvestore video..."

Let's also add the not-black Comet.

When I see actual evidence in this case, I'll change my mind.

 

[Tealgrove]

Has everyone forgotten that RA admitted he was the guy on the bridge and that yes, that was him? Period. He said it was him.

The “memorandum” is incorrect. He arrived at 1:30 and left at 3:30. His words. No one else’s.

Please, before we all drink the koolaid being served, why don’t we sit back and think rationally about all of this. I know it’s been 6 years but I’m shocked (not here) that so many have fallen hook line and sinker for this gothic fairy tale that titillates our senses and has us hanging on by our finger tips.

Question: How many believed that Leticia Stauch suffered from DID-multiple personality disorder? Show of hands please. No one bought in. Her lawyers brought in a Specialist even to prove it (that didn’t go well). They hung in with it. Fought for it but in the end the Jury didn’t buy it. They didn’t have any other avenue to go. She was guilty as sin and they knew it.

Even if it turns out that RA isn’t the guy, (which I believe he is), I still wouldn’t believe this ridiculous tale that is being spun. It smells of desperation. If this is their theory moving forward then RA is in a lot of trouble.

MOO JMO IMHO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Juvenile witness statements from PCA: Redacted names BBM - Sounds like RA to a T to me.

Interviews were conducted with 3 juveniles, and .-*they advised they were on the Manon High Bridge on February:13'",2017. They advised they were walking on the trail toward Freedom Bridge to go home when they encountered a male walking from Freedom Bridge toward the Manon High Bridge. described the male as "kind of creepy"and advised he was wearing "like blue jeans a like really light blue jacket and he his hair was gray maybe a little brown and he did not really show his face." She advised the jacket was a duck canvas jacket advised she said "Hi"to the male but he just glared at them.

She recalled him being in all black and had something covering his mouth. She described him as "not very tall "with a bigger build She said he was not bigger than 5'10".

 

[FromGermany1]

I think you're actually talking about the couple who saw a suspicious man near their house on County Road 625 West (near the Manon High Bridge) on the morning of the murders. I believe the belief online had long been that this couple was the source of the YBG sketch.

According to the defense memorandum however, while there was a sketch made of the man they saw, it was never released to the public. The defense contends that this sketch resembles EF. This is covered on pages 79-80 of the memo.

No, I only meant, what I tried to describe: one witness, a "she" and therefore female, who saw a man doing something worthy of report, reported short after the murders. When she saw it, what time of day, Idk. Where she saw the man, I as well don't know.

I have read part of the memo meanwhile, but not even half of it.

 

[sandy_80]

also the defence admit thier client is a monster..and stupid
they asking ( is it possible for a killer who does all of this and leaves no dna ) to take the trails again where anyone can see him )?
yes..also..he could have got away with it still, but he went and put himself there cause he didnt know the victims had him locked in already...
I dont see how this wreck can actually survive a trial..i see him cracking under pressure unless we are wrong
thats why they want to throw everything off

 

[girlhasnoname]

And RA response in the PCA: <Sorry for formatting glitches when I copied and pasted> BBM

On October 13", 2022 Richard Allen was interviewed again by investigators. He advised he was on the trails on February;13'", 2017. He stated he saw juveniie girls on the trails east of Freedom Bridge and that he went onto the Manon High Bridge Richard Allen further stated he went out onto the Manon High I Bridge to watch the fish. Later in his statement, he said he walked out to the flrst platform on the bridge He stated he then walked back, sat on bench on the trail and then left. He stated he parked his car on the side of an old building. He told investigators that he was wearirrg blue jeans and a blue or black Carhartt jacket with hood. He advised he may have been wearing some type of head covering as well. He further claimed he saw no one else except for the juvenile girls esaweast of the Freedom Bridge He told investigators that he owns firearms and they are at- his home . Richard M. Allens wife,KA, also spoke to investigators. She confirmed that Richard did have guns and knives at the residence She also stated that Richard still owns a blue Carhartt jacket.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I believe RA went into the police to talk to them on October 13th with his wife after they finally ID'd him from either the first tip he gave or he was tipped in by someone. They probably asked him his actions on that day and he was vague like he was when he self reported the day of the murders.

I think they told him of the witness statements placing him at the bridge and on the platform and he admitted that he was. They may have even told them they had photos from the juveniles that placed him there, therefore he admitted to what he was wearing, where he went, the times, etc. LE has been known to use a ruse or 2, that would explain why someone would describe exactly what they were wearing which matches what the witnesses saw.

RA's goose is cooked. It's just a matter of whether or not he had some type of help in luring the girls to the bridge or even help with the murders. I personally think he committed the murders by himself, but had some help in catfishing Abby and Libby to get them there.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Some thoughts on that press release

1. Why would he get rid of the car when nothing public about it was put out there?

2. Why would get rid of his gun when he didn't fire it?

3. Why did he not say anything to anyone for 5 years after his tip interview, to indicate he was on the bridge moments before these most infamous murders?

The last point is incomprehensible to me. Surely all his friends and family and colleagues would have heard about it???

IMO a significant issue that is out there for the defence is what did "Rick' say about all this over the last 5 years. My guess is he never told anyone anything.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO we really have no evidence that was his car. We haven't seen evidence of a license plate number nor any indication that he was the driver of the car on the HH cam. They only see a car that resembled RA's car but look at the other cars they think resemble his.

This is from the PCA: witnesses described a purple PT Cruiser, smart car or small SUV. "Investigators believe those descriptions are similar in nature to a 2016 Ford Focus." ... "Investigators observed a car that resembled Allen's 2016 Ford Focus on the Hoosier Harvestore video..."

Let's also add the not-black Comet.

When I see actual evidence in this case, I'll change my mind.

BIB

He told us his car was parked at CPS when he entered the trail - and we know that was around 1.30pm - therefore there is strong evidence the car on the cam is in fact his. These evidential point corroborate each other. That is the power of circumstantial evidence when you consider all the facts together