Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

[Tricia]

Delphi murders: Libby’s sister, at Ball State now, does ‘anything to keep the story alive’

We agree with Kelsi German. Anything to keep this story alive until this killer is caught!!!!

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Abby and Libby's discussion thread has been shut down for quite a while. Why? Because without new information to discuss, posters turn on each other like the Donner Party.

Now, it is Libby's sister who has said what everyone needs to hear...we need to keep this case alive. We need to constantly hit social media with this killers's picture, sketch, and audio recording.

Not a day should go by without all of us getting the picture, the sketch, and the audio recording out to everyone via any source where people can see him and/or hear him.

Carrie Timmons, Libby's bio mom, stated in a Facebook post that the police do have DNA.

If this is true, then the perp is not in the DNA database. This means the only way we can catch him is for someone somewhere to recognize this man.

It boggles my mind to think about the fact that no one has been able to identify the killer.

Kelsi German is going to college, but Liberty's sister is already one of the smartest people around.
German said, “Eventually, I opened up. I’m not sure I can keep quiet about this, at this point.”
Websleuths agrees with you, Kelsi. We cannot keep quiet at this point.

We are done sitting back and doing nothing.

His picture, his sketch, and his voice need to saturate social media along with any other outlet you can think of.

On a personal note, I would encourage both families to use social media.

I know for a fact that Abby and Libby's immediate family do not trust people on the Internet because of past experiences. I do not recall seeing any family member on Twitter or Facebook discussing the case except for Libby's bio mom, Carrie. Forgive me if I am wrong.

I would encourage both families to join everyone in getting this depraved person's picture out there.

Nancy Grace Crimecon'17 Podcast with the families of Abby and Libby.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference of 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/
<broken link>
Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby
Link to post with all Threads #1-98(Courtesy of margarita25)

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*Media Maps & Timelines*
IMAGE Discussion Thread
Scanner Thread
Rules Etiquette & Information
Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
grayhuze youtube channel

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION

DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.​

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

4) If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

This discussion was closed months ago because of all the violations of TOS. It was apparent that with no new news you all became bored and turned into frothing cannibals ripping the guts out of your fellow posters.

Let's review a bit here, shall we?

DO NOT POST RANDOM PICTURES OF PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU THINK THEY LOOK LIKE THE PERP.

THERE ARE NO SUSPECTS IN THIS CASE. PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS ANY PEOPLE FROM THE PAST THAT WERE QUESTIONED BY THE POLICE.
NO SUSPECTS, NO ACCUSING ANYONE OF THE CRIME.

If you feel you have a legitimate tip for the police CLICK HERE for the tipline and more info.

Please remember if someone attacks you please hit the "report" button in the lower lefthand corner of the post and follow instructions. Do not reply, Do not quote.

Keep on topic.

Be nice to each other. I know the boys think the girls have cooties and the girls think the boys smell funny but let's put aside our differences and get along, please.

I'm sure I will have more reminders later.

Tricia

 

[Betty P]

Well, I guess I'll go first. Thank you Tricia, for bringing back the discussion thread for Abby & Libby. I wasn't sure why the original one had disappeared, so thanks for explaining. I was thinking of these young ladies the other day and read the latest news. I really hope LE makes some progress!

Good news to hear confirmation of DNA evidence. I hope local LE decide to do a search for familial DNA matches, it's worked so well in other cases.

Prayers for Abby & Libby and all who loved them.

Just adding a link to this recent news story about how Ohio, along with other states, has not been doing a good job of taking DNA samples from criminals. It seems to be a problem in several states. Hopefully the girls' DNA profiles will continue to be submitted to searches as those databases are constantly changing..

Untraceable: Why Ohio's DNA collection law is missing thousands of profiles

 

[MassGuy]

Assuming that investigators do in fact have DNA evidence here, I expect that familial DNA research is already ongoing. We've seen numerous cold cases solved in this manner, the capture of The Golden State Killer being the most famous.

That's how this case gets solved IMO.

 

[watcher9]

If LE has DNA, I hope they will try the new Parabon genealogy based testing to help them to solve this case.
Justice is needed for these two girls.

 

[tmar]

So pleased this thread is open again.
I have kept checking over several months, and today's news is the best.
Let us hope, we have more evidence.

 

[Alethea]

Thank you Tricia! Getting someone to recognize this monster before he strikes again should be our top priority. He looks so ordinary. So unremarkable. Like Gary Ridgeway I am sure he blends in to his everyday life like an all-American middle-aged man.

But someone knows otherwise. Someone has been approached by him, or made to feel uncomfortable around him. Someone knows their friend or family member has not been quite the same since last February. And that person should be brave and make a phone call into the tip line.

 

[MsJosie]

Thanks Tricia! Prayers for all of the family and friends. Libby’s sister is very brave and I support her in journey to put out as much information in order for LE to catch the killer.

 

[catastrophe_]

Finally, after what felt like forever waiting for Abby and Libby’s thread to be reopened again...
Hoping that a break in this case is on the near horizon!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

WS member Gray Huze recently had BP (Libby’s Grandma/Guardian) on YouTube discussing the case.

Part 1

Part2

 

[k-mac]

I am very new to this case so forgive me I am not up to speed as to what has gone on here in previous threads.
having watched a crime show about the girls recently there was something very off about a character interviewed for the show. I would love to explore everyones thoughts about him but if I am understanding the rules currently we are not allowed to discuss anybody?

 

[Betty P]

Assuming that investigators do in fact have DNA evidence here, I expect that familial DNA research is already ongoing. We've seen numerous cold cases solved in this manner, the capture of The Golden State Killer being the most famous.

That's how this case gets solved IMO.

Per Tricia's post at the top

Carrie Timmons, Libby's bio mom, stated in a Facebook post that the police do have DNA.

Let's hope DNA research is happening, though we probably can't make assumptions about it. States and localities vary about the use of familial DNA.

There was another cold case solved recently in MS with familial DNA, but a recent article about pointed out that MS and other states still aren't using the techniques.

Mississippi, use familial DNA to solve Mississippi crimes

According to James Rainey of NBC News, only 12 states currently utilize familial DNA: Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming. Mississippi is not on this list.

According to the article linked above, Indiana is one of the states that doesn't have a protocol in place and doesn't use familial DNA to solve crimes.

 

[TTF14]

I am very new to this case so forgive me I am not up to speed as to what has gone on here in previous threads.
having watched a crime show about the girls recently there was something very off about a character interviewed for the show. I would love to explore everyones thoughts about him but if I am understanding the rules currently we are not allowed to discuss anybody?

You are not allowed, but what show was it?

 

[TTF14]

If any case "deserved" the familial DNA research/match, it's this one. I believe this is being done as we speak.

 

[Elley Mae]

Police won't say if 1988 Indiana cold case suspect linked to 2017 Delphi murders of two teenage girls

Published July 18

Police won't say if 1988 Indiana cold case suspect linked to 2017 Delphi murders of two teenage girls

Investigators working on the Delphi case are now looking at every tactic available to track down Williams' and German’s killer, FOX59 reported. Riley told the news station DNA familial testing is being used to crack cold cases.

“Are we using it in this specific case? I’m not going to say one way or another,” Riley said.

Riley confirmed investigators are working together to find the killer.

 

[Betty P]

WS member Gray Huze recently had BP (Libby’s Grandma/Guardian) on YouTube discussing the case.

Part 1

Part2

Some tidbits new to me from the discussion:

Official web site: AbbyandLibby.org
FBI still on the case
A witness saw the killer leaving the scene, not sure where
Family hasn't heard all of the audio
There was a car in the parking lot when girls were dropped off

JMO, while the video and audio were very helpful, a lot of amateur sleuths have gotten caught up in trivial details.

Lessons learned from the Jacob Wetterling case should really apply here.

• Interview everyone - all potential witnesses, friends of the girls, young kids who live in the area, etc. multiple times if possible.

• Keep taking a fresh look at all the evidence gathered and witness interviews

• Look around the region for similar cases - kids or women being stalked, attempted rape, attempted abduction, child *advertiser censored*, sexual child abuse reports, etc. Interview very closely the victims who reported those crimes and those who witnessed them or similar suspicious behavior.

• Use yer DNA evidence.

 

[MsBetsy]

If any case "deserved" the familial DNA research/match, it's this one. I believe this is being done as we speak.

According to an article from The Indy Star, this past June, they were still working on identifying all the DNA they do have, and I think the familiar DNA match is definitely something they are taking advantage of. But it can take time. They ( LE) also state that they are " one piece of the puzzle away from solving this crime," which tells me they have plenty of evidence and just need to identify the killer. What they really seem to stress is that there is SOMEONE out there who knows who the killer is, and it's a matter of time before they come forward. They also said that they are still working to identify all the DNA they do have, which makes it sound like they have a lot. Whether or not there will be any matches is another matter. Apparently there is a new law that passed allowing them to collect DNA from anyone ACCUSED of a felony, rather than convicted. I really think they are getting close to solving this crime. The most important thing seems to be getting it out there in the public again, hoping that someone will come forward if they suspect someone they know. If someone has not already posted the article it would be great, since I don't know how to do it. It is from June and is from the Indy Star.

 

[stg]

I think LE actually knows well who the killer is, has for a long time, and just needs that one solid piece of evidence to nail him. It very well could be DNA. <modsnip - baiting>

 

[Betty P]

Police won't say if 1988 Indiana cold case suspect linked to 2017 Delphi murders of two teenage girls

Published July 18

Police won't say if 1988 Indiana cold case suspect linked to 2017 Delphi murders of two teenage girls

Investigators working on the Delphi case are now looking at every tactic available to track down Williams' and German’s killer, FOX59 reported. Riley told the news station DNA familial testing is being used to crack cold cases.

“Are we using it in this specific case? I’m not going to say one way or another,” Riley said.

Riley confirmed investigators are working together to find the killer.

Has the investigative team put out a message yet that is targeted to parents, child care workers, schools, etc. in the region, asking them to report if kids or teens experienced any suspicious men approaching or following them within the last several years? From a car, in a public place, on the internet, etc? JMO, this guy has trolled for kids before. I'm willing to bet other kids have been approached by him, maybe not in Delphi, but in other towns and cities within the region.

If they haven't already, they should re-interview the local child abuse offenders to question them about anyone they suspect. In small towns and cities, the pervs, and other criminals often know who else is out there preying on kids, collecting child *advertiser censored*, etc. If those tips match what others have reported about suspicious men approaching or abusing other kids, it can narrow the focus and build enough evidence to get search warrants.

Link to analysis of Jacob Wetterling's case by Sheriff Gudmundson and how the investigation got off track

Sheriff: Signs Point to Heinrich From Day One in Wetterling Case

Powerpoint of analysis

https://tsm-markets.s3.amazonaws.com/st-cloud/Wetterling Investigation News Conference.pdf

 

[MsBetsy]

I am very new to this case so forgive me I am not up to speed as to what has gone on here in previous threads.
having watched a crime show about the girls recently there was something very off about a character interviewed for the show. I would love to explore everyones thoughts about him but if I am understanding the rules currently we are not allowed to discuss anybody?

Right. LE made it pretty clear they they do not want anyone posting pictures or specific theories on SM. To me this means they do not want the killer to have the advantage of knowing they are on to him. Also there is evidence that only the killer knows. The most important thing seems to be getting the case in the public eye again, hoping someone will come forward who knows something, or suspects someone they know, that and finding a DNA match. LE seems confident there is someone who knows something. Just before they caught the Golden State Killer they brought the case to the public again, with the help of the crime writer who wrote a chilling letter to the killer, warning him that he will be caught soon. It turned out that it was DNA that finally identified him. But in this case I think it is much more likely that there is someone out there who knows something. They may be scared to come forward. Maybe they don't want to believe it. Eventually they will identify him through DNA, but I think it took two years once they started the search for Deangelo. It takes time to narrow it down. I think they are really hoping someone will have some knowledge of the crime who will come forward. Jmo