Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

[Brubon]

Savoy6......how do you know it was about the "thrill and taunting LE?"
Is this your opinion...or do you somehow know?
"Nice awesome handguns"......I guess I better get off this thread right now....reading those words and thinking about Abby and Libby for me right now is very troubling. MOO
Peace.

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Savoy6....is it your opinion that a suppressor is NOT hidden under BG's jacket...based on the photo released of him?
Is that what you were implying? Are they too large to be concealed?

Yes indeed, barely see the outline of a possible handgun so I personally don't see any silhouette of a suppressor. And also, they are heavy and it would really create a sag in that pocket. IMO

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Savoy6....is it your opinion that a suppressor is NOT hidden under BG's jacket...based on the photo released of him?
Is that what you were implying? Are they too large to be concealed?

To finish answering your question Brubon, you can get a good combination with a compact pistol and with the suppressor attached it can be concealed with the proper equipment and of course you are the right size of person to pull it off.

 

[JnRyan]

The lower the caliber pistol the better a suppressor can work. And it always depend on the quality of the suppressor. A large amount of handguns you will see what silencers will be .22 caliber, small and quiet to begin with. A 9mm would be the next and using a .45 with a suppressor you are still going to make a little noise but still not too bad if it is professional grade equipment. I would say even with a little noise on a suppressor the sound of the running creek water would then be in favor of the shooter. A .22 caliber will be so quiet that you will hear the fall of the hammer with the firing pin striking the primer in the bullet as well as the metallic sound of the slide action. One manufacturer who sells handguns with their suppressors made to fit those nice awesome handguns is HK. German company. They are legal in some states if you posses the right license.

Yes, a .22 or a .25 are common guns for sound suppressors. In fact, if you do a Google search you can find videos on how to make a homemade suppressor for a .22 from PVC pipe and other common hardware items. As far as manufactured guns go even if you don't have one with a threaded barrel some aftermarket manufacturers sell threaded barrels for certain guns like a Glock or Sig Sauer. 45 ACP is actually a better round for sound suppressors than a 9mm because the .45 round is sub sonic - a suppressor cannot work on the crack a bullet makes when it breaks the sound barrier. You're typical 9mm - 115 or 124 grain - cartridge won't work. You have to find a sub sonic round like Winchester Super Suppressed 147 gr JHP rounds for a 9mm.

However, out in the country like that I doubt I would pay much attention to a .22, especially if the shooter uses .22 Shorts.

 

[Deleted member 196796]

However the victim’s bodies were not found along a walking trail. Reports indicate they were found somewhere between 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile beyond where the bridge eventually touches lands. The official trail ends at the other side of the bridge.

Well that is somewhat correct depending on how you define walking trail. The crime scene is near a trail that leads down towards the creek. The crime scene is also near a trail that heads almost in a direct route back to the cemetery which can be seen on the right satellite imagery if the foliage is down for the right time of year. Google images has plenty to choose from. Remember the photo that shows the yellow crime tape around the crime scene it's large trail heading down to the creek.

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Savoy6......how do you know it was about the "thrill and taunting LE?"
Is this your opinion...or do you somehow know?
"Nice awesome handguns"......I guess I better get off this thread right now....reading those words and thinking about Abby and Libby for me right now is very troubling. MOO
Peace.

It was a generalization that has been proven among serial killers of the thrill and taunting police. And yes it is documented that some serial killers do get to the point of wanted to be caught. But I can say it's all IMO as well.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well that is somewhat correct depending on how you define walking trail. The crime scene is near a trail that leads down towards the creek. The crime scene is also near a trail that heads almost in a direct route back to the cemetery which can be seen on the right satellite imagery if the foliage is down for the right time of year. Google images has plenty to choose from. Remember the photo that shows the yellow crime tape around the crime scene it's large trail heading down to the creek.
View attachment 173264

Right, but just because there’s a trail through the woods as sighted by google doesn’t mean it’s a public walking trail, could be deer trails through private land.

The presence of trails on treed rural land does not mitigate a possible scenario that the girls were shot as they attempted to flee to safety. It’s only a theory, one that accounts for the killer leaving no DNA on the bodies and the location of where the bodies were found.

All we really know is nobody called 911 the afternoon of Feb 13th over hearing screams, gunfire or any other suspicious sounds or activity because when the girls were first reported missing, foul play was not suspected.

 

[IceIce9]

Right, but just because there’s a trail through the woods as sighted by google doesn’t mean it’s a public walking trail, could be deer trails through private land.

The presence of trails on treed rural land does not mitigate a possible scenario that the girls were shot as they attempted to flee to safety. It’s only a theory, one that accounts for the killer leaving no DNA on the bodies and the location of where the bodies were found.

All we really know is nobody called 911 the afternoon of Feb 13th over hearing screams, gunfire or any other suspicious sounds or activity because when the girls were first reported missing, foul play was not suspected.

And no one interviewed by LE heard gunfire or screaming.

 

[ValhallaWolves]

I probably just watch too much criminal minds but I’ve always had a feeling that BG has been involved in the case. And was discounted from the pictures because he had some kind of “alibi”.

 

[Laughing]

I probably just watch too much criminal minds but I’ve always had a feeling that BG has been involved in the case. And was discounted from the pictures because he had some kind of “alibi”.

BBM

Me, too. IIRC "insertion" is the term.

Maybe we need a support group: my name is Laughing & I have a crush on David Rossi....

 

[Brubon]

May I please join the group...
I have visions of BG being a member of websleuths. (Shutter....)
MOO

 

[Cryptic]

If he is in his 40's, maybe he was a resident here in the late 1980's or early 1990's when he was in middle school and left the area when the family moved or there was a divorce? If that is the case, that would explain why he is not remembered or recognized.

I agree with that time frame. The area has probably been used as an off again, on again youth drinking spot. The perpetrator at 16- to early twenties would fit fight in.

The perpetrator at that age could also fall into two general categories

- Bad news types with a criminal record.
- Bad news types known to have deep criminal tendencies, but no convictions.

The first group can be identified using records searches. The second group might take interviewing retired teachers, police, probation officers, clergy and youth sport coaches. Maybe they remember a former resident youth known to be sexually aggressive, had deep seated criminal tendencies, cruel to animals, had continual fantasies about being a crime boss or serial killer etc.

The most promising candidates could then be followed up on.

Another source of local lore concerning bad news former residents might be class reunion coordinators. Maybe one noted a former bad news type drifting in to a reunion out of boredom and then re-visiting the area from time to time etc.

Likewise, if one wants to set the time of former residency at a slightly older age to be at youth drinking sites, maybe interview retired tavern owners, liquor store owners, and former dance club owners about bad news- but never convicted former residents.

 

[MJPeony]

I agree with that time frame. The area has probably been used as an off again, on again youth drinking spot. The perpetrator at 16- to early twenties would fit fight in.

The perpetrator at that age could also fall into two general categories

- Bad news types with a criminal record.
- Bad news types known to have deep criminal tendencies, but no convictions.

The first group can be identified using records searches. The second group might take interviewing retired teachers, police, probation officers, clergy and youth sport coaches. Maybe they remember a former resident youth known to be sexually aggressive, had deep seated criminal tendencies, cruel to animals, had continual fantasies about being a crime boss or serial killer etc.

The most promising candidates could then be followed up on.

Another source of local lore concerning bad news former residents might be class reunion coordinators. Maybe one noted a former bad news type drifting in to a reunion out of boredom and then re-visiting the area from time to time etc.

Likewise, if one wants to set the time of former residency at a slightly older age to be at youth drinking sites, maybe interview retired tavern owners, liquor store owners, and former dance club owners about bad news- but never convicted former residents.

The idea that BG being a former resident (in teen years/early 20’s probably) is really ringing true to me. IMO, it makes the most sense logistically, as well as lines up with the facts we do know. I believe strongly that BG was very comfortable with the location and was not a mere passer-by. (Among other things, he looks incredibly comfortable with walking on that bridge.)

Also- IMO being a former resident really jives with LE consistently saying they need someone to come forward to say “I know that guy”, “I know that voice”. I’ve always believed that LE believes BG is local. Their repeated pleas for people who know him to come forward clearly points to them believing he is not a random drifter IMO. And it feels very much like they want someone to REMEMBER him. REMEMBER him. Which aligns with it being someone local, but someone from a while back- someone who needs to be remembered.

All MOO.

 

[MJPeony]

I just had another thought related to the former resident thing-

Could it then be quite likely that “former teen resident BG” (IMO) could have had bad interactions with girls at that time in his past, such as rejection, which caused deep-set resentment? It seems we find these rejected-and-taking-out-anger-later types to be not uncommon in criminals. And in this case it really seems to fit. The young girls (A and L) could represent roughly the age of girls he associates resentment with- then he carries out his crime in the area of that past. (Either bridge area itself, but not necessarily- maybe just even his hometown and bridge area that he knew was secluded).

MOO.

ETA, in which case the suspect could perhaps not be remembered as a bad guy, but just be remembered as being quiet or withdrawn, or very awkward around girls, or for having been rather publicly rejected by a girl.

 

[MistyWaters]

The idea that BG being a former resident (in teen years/early 20’s probably) is really ringing true to me. IMO, it makes the most sense logistically, as well as lines up with the facts we do know. I believe strongly that BG was very comfortable with the location and was not a mere passer-by. (Among other things, he looks incredibly comfortable with walking on that bridge.)

Also- IMO being a former resident really jives with LE consistently saying they need someone to come forward to say “I know that guy”, “I know that voice”. I’ve always believed that LE believes BG is local. Their repeated pleas for people who know him to come forward clearly points to them believing he is not a random drifter IMO. And it feels very much like they want someone to REMEMBER him. REMEMBER him. Which aligns with it being someone local, but someone from a while back- someone who needs to be remembered.

All MOO.

Makes sense and perhaps a reason why a connection to Delphi is sought.

Despite 38,000 tips, answers still elusive in murders of Libby German, Abby Williams in Delphi
McLeland also discussed what made a good tip and outlined the following points:

• Name of the suspect
• Identifiers or identifying marks such as hair length, facial hair, tattoos, scars, etc.
• Birthdate or approximate age
• Last known address
• Why you believe the person could be connected to the case or any connection they have to Delphi

 

[Steleheart]

A lot of good sleuthing ideas happening!
Just as a reminder let's remember not to start naming people here though.
Remember our excellent feature the "Conversations" formerly called PM's.
The member starting it can invite up to 20 participants but please don't announce it in the thread - simply start messaging.

Remember asking in the thread to PM you, etc. is against TOS.
Review it here * INVITING PRIVATE MESSAGES * under this link;

HTH

 

[JnRyan]

I agree with that time frame. The area has probably been used as an off again, on again youth drinking spot. The perpetrator at 16- to early twenties would fit fight in.

The perpetrator at that age could also fall into two general categories

- Bad news types with a criminal record.
- Bad news types known to have deep criminal tendencies, but no convictions.

The first group can be identified using records searches. The second group might take interviewing retired teachers, police, probation officers, clergy and youth sport coaches. Maybe they remember a former resident youth known to be sexually aggressive, had deep seated criminal tendencies, cruel to animals, had continual fantasies about being a crime boss or serial killer etc.

The most promising candidates could then be followed up on.

Another source of local lore concerning bad news former residents might be class reunion coordinators. Maybe one noted a former bad news type drifting in to a reunion out of boredom and then re-visiting the area from time to time etc.

Likewise, if one wants to set the time of former residency at a slightly older age to be at youth drinking sites, maybe interview retired tavern owners, liquor store owners, and former dance club owners about bad news- but never convicted former residents.

Then there is the case of juvenile records. In VA where I live misdemeanor cases are expunged when the person turns 19 or 5 years after which ever is later. In IN the records are not sealed or expunged when the person turns 18, BUT they can be expunged or sealed if requested. There are, however, still sealed. If BG was under 18 and requested sealed or expunged, then LE may not know. There are probable exceptions, but I'm not an attorney.

 

[ValhallaWolves]

Then there is the case of juvenile records. In VA where I live misdemeanor cases are expunged when the person turns 19 or 5 years after which ever is later. In IN the records are not sealed or expunged when the person turns 18, BUT they can be expunged or sealed if requested. There are, however, still sealed. If BG was under 18 and requested sealed or expunged, then LE may not know. There are probable exceptions, but I'm not an attorney.

I don’t know the parameters or limitations to this but it’s terrifying to know that someone can have a potentially dangerous crime taken off their record.

 

[JnRyan]

I don’t know the parameters or limitations to this but it’s terrifying to know that someone can have a potentially dangerous crime taken off their record.

It varies from state to state. In Virginia it basically applies to misdemeanors and I didn't see a distinction in IN law. In LA where I grew up a felony can be expunged IF a firearm was not involved, it wasn't murder, manslaughter, kidnapping or a sex crime and there are no felonies as an adult. So in LA grand theft-auto MIGHT be expunged, but rape would not. (This can be a problem in LA where if BOTH are under 17, then it is possible for BOTH to be charged with statutory rape.) So there are provisions for serious crimes.

 

[Sleuth15]

I agree with that time frame. The area has probably been used as an off again, on again youth drinking spot. The perpetrator at 16- to early twenties would fit fight in.

The perpetrator at that age could also fall into two general categories

- Bad news types with a criminal record.
- Bad news types known to have deep criminal tendencies, but no convictions.

The first group can be identified using records searches. The second group might take interviewing retired teachers, police, probation officers, clergy and youth sport coaches. Maybe they remember a former resident youth known to be sexually aggressive, had deep seated criminal tendencies, cruel to animals, had continual fantasies about being a crime boss or serial killer etc.

The most promising candidates could then be followed up on.

Another source of local lore concerning bad news former residents might be class reunion coordinators. Maybe one noted a former bad news type drifting in to a reunion out of boredom and then re-visiting the area from time to time etc.

Likewise, if one wants to set the time of former residency at a slightly older age to be at youth drinking sites, maybe interview retired tavern owners, liquor store owners, and former dance club owners about bad news- but never convicted former residents.