Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    In my above post, he actually finishes the phrase with “but I’m 100 percent convinced he was watching.” I actually hit pause right before he said that, so I edited my above quote to include that phrase as well. I haven’t even gotten to the 3:00 mark yet to weigh in on his sketch statement.

    ISP superintendent provides update on Delphi double murder investigation

    ETA: Wait brainfart, @enelram, I’m so sorry, I think you meant “specifically in the room”. I apologize I’m a little frazzled here, edited my post accordingly.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  2. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    By using your link it looks like the 11th, 12th and 13th were mostly above freezing and it rained a little bit the 12th. I hope I'm reading it correctly.
     
  3. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    Ok I’ve stated from the beginning I think this idea of his proximity is based on general profiling/BAU, his knowledge of the bridge, etc. With Carter’s strong reiteration of this proximity aspect again, I’m now ready to concede that they really may have something more than a just general profile basis/awareness space consideration that brings them to this conclusion, moo.

    So, I ask again, how do they know he is so close this then if it’s not based on a general profiling characterisitic. This is where I have to wonder again about the aspect of taunting. Did he leave them a little gift of some sort to show them he’s still there.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  4. peel

    peel Well-Known Member

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    there was a lot of speculation on various sites early on....I won't mention any of it because anybody can put anything on a blog and call it truth......obviously, a murder by gun is one thing....at least its quick.....murder by a blade is quite another.....it has to be horrific.......

    God bless Supt Carter for his emotion and passion in this case....may it be fruitful....
     
  5. MeadowMuffin

    MeadowMuffin Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely believe this is what occurred. Which is why we only have that little snippet of BG. With his head down, watching where he was walking, he didn't know he was being filmed. Libby may have felt something was "off" about him, therefore she slipped her phone in her pocket. BG didn't know she had a phone on her as he never saw it. But if he DID know she had it, he certainly didn't know she captured his image and voice, otherwise he would have taken it.
     
  6. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    I pretty much just said/asked the same thing above too, Wells.

    ETA:
    We know they haven’t recognized him from the PC because in the above interview he says “if he wasn’t in the room he was close by”...

    I’m thinking (again) he has reached out to them.

    Which if so, is a whole nother ballgame which may say a lot more about the perp. Which then brings me back again to what type of offender are we dealing with, organized vs disorganized, etc...which then brings me back to squabbling with @MassGuy about this. :)

    ETA2: I apologize for the typos in the post above which I can no longer edit:

    Corrected for clarity:
    “How do they know he is so close then if it’s not based on a general profiling characterisitic?”
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  7. peel

    peel Well-Known Member

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    for me personally I don't find profilers all that helpful....they're taking educated guess......."its a white guy, mid 20's, low self esteem, anger issues, probably spent some time in the military".....honestly, they make such generalizations its hard to miss out on at least one of the characteristics.....
     
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  8. pepper 34

    pepper 34 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly... they didn't have any idea who they were looking for but they never let the public, therefore, the killer know that. Bluffing is another useful LE tool for obvious reasons. I think bluffing is what the LE in this case has been forced to resort to, as well.

    Rather than "release more information sooner" maybe LE didn't have and still don't have usable information to release. True, the LE in this case has video, a photo from the video and audio recordings. Looks like those "extra bonuses" have turned out to be useless even when released.

    The sketches: Maybe the first created sketch was not released because the face looked nothing like the photo/video of BG as seen on the bridge. (Maybe LE was in agreement with some of us who have felt that way since the latest sketch was released.) So many of us still bring up how difficult it is to "see" the young man's image in BG's face. Some of us still insist the "older guy looks like BG and the new sketch doesn't." It's an overall impression created by the older-guy "pixel face." Maybe the narrative given by the witness who helped create that sketch did not seem reliable for some reasons. "The guy I saw looked like this." So? A lot of people were there that day. Maybe other sketches were produced from that day, too. None of them looked like the guy on the bridge except for the image that was first released.

    The audio sound: It's possible the only usable part of that tape has already been released. A stranger ordering me (calmly or not)... telling me, at the age of 13 or 14, to go down a hill into the deeper part of the woods would have caused me to cry and then plead... and cry again about my mother and father and my sister and... everything... because, deep down, I know I'm probably being taken somewhere so I can be killed and I'm about to die in a horrible way at any moment. I have no time and the terror of it is overwhelming...
    Yes, I know Libby was brave... but she was 14 and no doubt was nervous and maybe a little bit afraid but I doubt she though he was going to kill them at the time she left her phone on. I think when she left her phone on she might have only thought she was going to catch the guy saying something or touching one of them... being a pervy-AH iow... but taking them into the woods to kill them? No... the girls would have taken off running, imo.

    Abby and Libby were just kids... they didn't march bravely, like soldiers, to their deaths without a sound, imo. Since they were closer to the recording device and BG was probably behind them, whatever he might have said could be nothing more than background sound and is probably unusable for recognition... and inseparable from the girl's voices. Who would release that for public consumption? BG might have enjoyed the crying and pleading so much; was so excited by it, he might have let them go on at it without saying anything at all. As long as they didn't scream; fine by him. Who wants to hear something like that?

    People either don't or are pretending they don't recognize his voice upon hearing what we've heard already, imo. It may sound like a typical "Midwestern-y voice to us" but would not to his mother or father, siblings, friends...
    They either have chosen to say nothing or they haven't heard the recording imo.

    DNA: We still don't know if they have usable DNA from the killer.

    What if nobody saw BG that day? What if he came in through the south end of the park. Took the girls from the south end of the bridge without even one person having seen him and left by way of behind the cemetery. Maybe he was dropped off at the cemetery and was later picked up at the cemetery. Possibly, it is the person or people in the car who could have dropped BG off that LE are appealing to for information. If those people exist, did they know of BG's plan or not...
    BG may have seen the girls dropped off by KG at the back entrance but I doubt he entered the park by way of either entrance. He didn't need to enter the park by the formal or back entrance so why would he? I don't think he would. It would be better for him not to.

    Evidence: We don't know if even one piece of usable, physical evidence was left behind.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  9. Steffannieg

    Steffannieg Active Member

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    Sharing some various thoughts:

    1) I agree w/ other posters that the audio clips don't sound menacing, familiar, or authoritative. They sound like he was trying to get their attention & redirect/manipulate them into looking or going somewhere.

    2) I just cannot believe that BG has gotten away with this for so long! When I reflect on how rural & remote the bridge location is, it is all the more baffling. Because clearly BG was familiar with that remote rural area, which would seem to narrow down the potential suspects greatly. When I learned that there wasn't even a gravel parking lot or anything, but rather Libby's sister just had to drop them off at a roadside trail-head, it shows all the more how 'out-of-the-way' this place is.

    3) I have heard the likes of Jim Clemente and others say that a perpetrator should not be described to the public as a monster, etc, but rather very normal descriptions should be given. Because people who are family/friends/neighbors of a bad guy are not going to see him in that light. They're going to have a scary stranger in mind, not a person in their life that they know. So I was a little surprised at how forceful Doug Carter was in the most recent press conference. I feel like his words would cause the perp and those in his life to cower into a corner, rather than come forward with information.

    4) I also have much less confidence in their case than I did when the press conference was first held :(
     
  10. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    Wow! If that doesn't make things clear as mud I don't know what does. First we have one sketch. Then we have a 2nd sketch and the 1st is not primary anymore. NOW, well, maybe it is a combination of the two. I'm not knocking SUPT Carter's communication, but maybe that is just the level of reliability, consistency of the witness accounts. And this is the frustration they are having to deal with.
    One thing that leads me to believe - LE doesn't any idea who this is.
     
  11. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's just me, but the more Carter says, the more I doubt they have anything of great value. Maybe some DNA they can't match to anyone they've considered. I do hope I'm wrong. Two days ago I was still certain they were close and had a suspect in mind. If weeks turn into months, we'll have our answer, won't we?

    We've commented on how LE need "tips" to find the killer, that ONE tip, not advice on how to conduct an investigation. I'm just not sure they've gone down this road yet:

    Let's play, "What if?" What if the perp died in the meantime? The family never saw any red flags that he could do such a heinous thing, yet his life had spiralled out of control over the last say 4 years before he passed. Even if it crossed their minds, and the new sketch looks like him, would they come forward now and degrade him further in the eyes of family and friends? Could they bring themselves to face it? They should, but would they? What if he was hanging with druggies & creeps, low-life petty criminals? Even if he did tell them something are they likely to go to LE? I suppose they could give an anonymous tip, but seriously, is anything truly anonymous anymore with the technology that exists?

    I wonder if LE has received any worthwhile tips since the new sketch was released? And if it comes from an acquaintance of a dead person how does LE proceed to get DNA and SW's based on sketch only tip? Just rambling and MOO.
     
  12. MDATCA

    MDATCA Well-Known Member

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    Watching and being in the room are different. Many of us watched it online but were not there in the room.
     
  13. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if this witness saw the individual with a "certain" vehicle?
     
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  14. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    (You are absolutely correct, please see my above posts which I edited to indicate my brainfart)
     
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  15. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and I believe he made definite effort to watch this live if he wasn't there. One of those things co-workers and acquaintances may want to make note of.
     
  16. JillR

    JillR Well-Known Member

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    What interview are you referring to? Please share. Thank you!
     
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  17. Miya

    Miya Well-Known Member

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    BBM - "Watching" doesn't have to mean "was in the room watching", everybody could watch it on TV or even live on the net - all over the world. So that doesn't mean much and if there is a PC about the crime that you committed, you will be watching. So I'm a 1000 % sure he was watching ...

    And this news site never works for me in the EU, not even with a proxy. Most work with a proxy, but this site just gives me their main page with all the headlines or something and it looks "broken". So I didn't see the video, I just have what people posted here. Maybe somebody could post a transcript?

    About profilers - yeah, to me it's also always the same blah, I don't think any profiler ever solved a case? MOO. There are a lot of movies with profilers doing all kinds of "magic tricks" to lure out the criminal, etc. and I think that's why they are so popular and have this reputation that they are the ones who always solve every crime and that without them no crime would ever be solved. MOO again.

    One thing that also always makes me wonder - if they talk about serial killers and that they interviewed many in prison and they all had such a horrible childhood, etc. - they are psychopaths, which means they are pathological liars and they also always play the sympathy card and do both to manipulate people. So I'm never really sure how much those profilers are actually manipulated by them and don't even notice. I just know that I have yet to meet a psychopath who didn't have a horrible childhood (even when I KNOW that they had a good childhood), who didn't have horrible things happen to them on a daily basis that they complain about to get sympathy and who didn't lie all the time - how do you know they are lying? Their lips are moving.

    MOO.
     
  18. bradfordsleuth

    bradfordsleuth Well-Known Member

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    This is what I think happened.

    The witness saw something that seemed very innocuous at the time, but felt that it needed to be reported anyways. I believe that it was easily explained away at the time, but now has become very significant in this case.

    JMO
     
  19. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    From above:

    “BBM - "Watching" doesn't have to mean "was in the room watching", everybody could watch it on TV or even live on the net - all over the world. So that doesn't mean much and if there is a PC about the crime that you committed, you will be watching. So I'm a 1000 % sure he was watching ...“

    (Yes sorry about that, I was speedreading/multitasking, you guys are quick! In my head I was thinking about trying to get to the 3:00 mark about what @Jax49 posted above, so was all flustered about that and quoted too quickly, I was just excited that I thought the quote was so handy.)
     
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  20. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    Perhaps he has been in anonymous contact with LE and that's how they know 110% he was watching.

    Now they have his attention, they did another interview today.

    I hope this is significant.
     
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