Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    The girls may not have had a chance to scream, or may have been too scared to (as counterintuitive as that is).

    If they did scream, it’s entirely possible that no one was around to hear them.

    I don’t take this as any indication that this guy is experienced, in fact, I take his actions as being a sign of the opposite.

    He could have been spotted walking in.

    He could have been spotted on the trail.

    He could have been spotted on the way out.

    Someone could have seen the attack.

    Broad daylight attacks are inherently risky, and we do know that people likely saw him at various points.

    Libby was able to capture him on her phone, and he neglected to remove it.

    He’s incredibly lucky that he wasn’t caught right away.
     
  2. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Even if there were footprints...sometimes footprints just go a little ways and then taper off and disappear, depending if one area was damp, then dry etc...or if shoes were damp at first. I notice all the time my footprints and my dog’s on sidewalk if grass was damp but then they stop. And we still kept walking. So they could have just ended.
     
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  3. Quinquin

    Quinquin Pres. Titus and Eden Fan Club

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    [

    If there was indeed a gun, then I could see the girls possibly screaming and/or running, the girls freezing and compliant also makes sense at gunpoint. I was just thinking BG could have ALSO gotten them to do his bidding by acting as an adult authoritarian and told them they couldn't cross back over the bridge (for safety reasons) but he could show them where to cross creek to get to the other side. He gained their trust as opposed to threatening them with a gun. BG might have surmised that this approach would make the situation much easier and safer for him to get the girls from point A to point B. Then he attacked them. Didn't give them time to react. From his perspective he wouldn't have to risk losing control of the girls who trusted him at this point when they were all three walking from the bridge, down the hill, across the creek, etc., in other words..out in the open... to the spot of his ambush.
     
  4. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    The length of the bridge is reported to be 853 feet, that’s almost 3 football fields. Perhaps the girls were too terrified to scream, once they realized danger. And although nobody heard anything serious enough to call 911, we don’t know if someone heard something at the time but only reported it after they realized it might be connected to the murders. The mind can play tricks especially if the sound is not prolonged. It’s very common to hear something and but then rationalize it as something different and ordinary.

    But I do agree, it’s almost impossible to imagine what could’ve occurred especially not knowing how the girls were initially approached.
     
  5. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    I think they know about the car from the witness that gave the description for the first sketch made that was disregarded for two years. She saw something that she felt needed to be reported. Her description of the perp may have included the description of the car he was in or around. Now they need someone else to fill in some blanks. At least that's how it appears to me at the moment. JMO

    eta: Wouldn't it be nice to know what she saw and where and why all of the sudden it's so important to the investigation?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  6. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I’ve wondered about something for quite some time. Is it possible to scream and run at the same time? I’m imagining that running in panicked terror requires full concentration including deep breathing in and out. Wouldn’t the act of screaming cause a shortness of breathe? If so, especially if a victim knew nobody was close enough to intervene, wouldn’t it be advantageous to just focus on attempting to flee? ie fight or flight.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  7. Wells

    Wells Well-Known Member

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    I am still thinking about the car angle. They have a sketch of a suspect. Lets says they really do not know who it is. I'm doubtful that's the case but for the sake of this argument, that's the foundation. They know a vehicle was parked at the building, but they really and truly dont know what it looked like for some unknown reason. Maybe they are working backwards. If you find the vehicle, you find the owner.
     
  8. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    MOO any one saying they saw a vehicle is at least going to say if was a car, motorcycle, or truck and basic color.
     
  9. Wells

    Wells Well-Known Member

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    True. But it could have been a very common vehicle for the area: white pickup, gray SUV, etc. Just examples. They may need a more detailed description.
     
  10. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Unfortunately this DOES seem to happen. It's like the perp has some kind of unearthly good luck. Like when someone's heavily intoxicated and crashes into another car on the interstate-the innocent people all die while the intoxicated walk out without a scratch. I think most of what happened with the Delphi crime comes down to dumb luck, not skill. If he'd been a few minutes earlier or later then he may not have gotten away with it for as long as he has.

    As far as not hearing anything...The sound of leaves rustling wouldn't have registered to me if I'd been there. There are always noises in that park; rustling leaves wouldn't have been out of place enough to raise my hairs. And perhaps the girls just didn't get the chance to scream or they were too afraid. Sometimes it's hard to separate what we think we would have done from what actually happened.
     
  11. wgram

    wgram Well-Known Member

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    BBM Yes it would I think you might be onto something there. She could have seen him around the car. I just wish that whomever knows what happened and yes there has to be someone.. I wish they would come forth this case is been cold too long.........MOO
     
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  12. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    I think it's possible to scream and run at the same time, but I think that the image of the young woman tearing through the forest and yelling at the top of her lungs is probably more Hollywood than reality inspired. In real life things happen like you freezing, running out of breath, confusion, or just flat out not being able to bring forth the sound that you want. Have you ever tried screaming in your dreams? Like when you're trying so hard to yell as loudly as you can but the only thing coming out is a little yelp that's barely above a whisper? I think that sometimes happens in real life, too. The one time I saw someone running in terror she wasn't screaming, per se, just kind of panting really hard and gasping, "Oh my god, oh my god," as she ran.
     
  13. cody22

    cody22 Well-Known Member

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    Opinion -After the last LE PC....... I think LE knows the basic color of that vehicle and I believe that one of their suspects has/had a vehicle like that one seen. I believe this suspect resembles BG2. I also believe someone in the suspect's family is "alibing" for the suspect for the day of February 13th and will not give him up......moo
     
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  14. wgram

    wgram Well-Known Member

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    BBM Waiting like a spider to catch his prey in his web. :(:(
     
  15. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    I know we're not allowed to discuss SM here, but I've honestly yet to even come across a rumor like this on the other forums. (A similar one about a man and a vehicle, but wrong location.) So whoever the witness is, they've kept pretty quiet about what they saw and what happened. It hasn't leaked. If LE didn't put much stock into the witness's tip or sketch then it's interesting that the witness wasn't out there in Internetland talking about it. I find that in and of itself worth thinking about.
     
  16. wgram

    wgram Well-Known Member

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    MOO I couldn't agree more
     
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  17. Sneaker33

    Sneaker33 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the killer knocked one or both girls unconscious. I suspect he had a knife and possibly gun. I also wonder if the girls could have been hit over head from behind with a rock or other object.
     
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  18. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    I’ve been reading vintage crime stories recently, and this particular one caught my eye, as it very similar.

    It happened in 1865, in the woods just outside of Boston.

    A brother (age 12) and sister (14-15) were exploring, when they were attacked by a man wielding a knife.

    The girl was the main target, as she was sexually assaulted before she was killed. Her brother tried to run, but he was also stabbed to death.

    The killer was never caught.

    https://www.google.com/amp/jamaicaplaingazette.com/2012/07/20/unsolved-murders-that-haunt-jp/amp/
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  19. enelram

    enelram Well-Known Member

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    It's a very small force, an older Chief, a sergeant and 5 very young
    fellows.
    According to violent crime reports I've seen, other than assaults,
    they have zero experience with investigating murders the last few years. It seems like a sleepy little town.
    Interestingly Indiana State Police does not report their clearance
    (solving) rates in the crime statistics report for last few years.

    It takes experienced, educated investigators and competent forensic people to solve crimes and convict criminals. These small towns are at
    a distinct disadvantage, IMO.
     
  20. Jax49

    Jax49 Florida Native

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    The Delphi Police Department, the Carroll County Sheriff, the Indiana State Police, and the FBI are working together.

    IIRC, the FBI has been helping since the initial search.

    moo
     
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