Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

[Crazy4having3]

I don’t think that’s it, because they probably wouldn’t want him to know he was under surveillance.

They wouldn’t tip their hand like that.

Good point

 

[MassGuy]

Do you think he's the type to run if LE does get close?

There’s no way of knowing. Typical behavior is to make up an excuse in order to leave town, following a crime like this (we see that mentioned in a lot of profiles).

If he did feel they were getting close, he may do so again (especially if he did initially).

Some of these guys just stick around.

 

[ab01]

I think they are going solely off what the profile says, as we know that killers like this, tend to follow the case closely.

They do this for two main reasons:

Some of them enjoy it, as it gives them a sense of power.

They want to know what law enforcement knows about them, and where the investigation stands (self preservation).

Agreed its not totally dissimilar to how many people are obsessed with knowing what a neighbor, relative, etc knows about something personal about them. The reasoning may be dissimilar, but the extreme sense of urgency is very similar in some instances.

Its the unkown things that could jeopardize the perps freedom that would make him desperate to know what investigators know

JMO

 

[Cutiekitty]

It's really not that odd. Many people have commented on here and spoke of similar experiences where they've been met with someone brandishing a weapon or they've been threatened. You really can't underestimate the body's reaction to fear and trauma. In the movies, criminal situations are lengthened for entertainment purposes. In real life, most crimes take place very quickly and oftentimes the crime is almost over before the person is even able to react. The girls could've been approached, threatened, and ushered down the hillside before they really even knew what was going on. We talk about this case in hindsight and it's easy enough to play Monday morning quarterback from afar, but we really have no idea how they would have reacted or what they tried to do. We don't know that they didn't try to run or that they didn't put up a fight. And even though one was interested in forensic science, and they were not "little" girls in terms of size (I'm 4'10" and they were both bigger than me), they were still little girls.

True. People say the reaction to fear is fight or flight, but I say it’s actually fight, flight, or freeze (full compliance). Only 3 people know what went down that day and there is a task force of people who probably have a pretty good idea. None of us on here knows what happened and we are all Monday morning quarterbacking based on life experiences, logic/reasoning and maybe a little emotion which is why there are so many different theories and a lot of speculation. I think that it’s a good thing to explore all of the different view points - it prevents tunnel vision.

I hope I’m not coming off as questioning the girls actions or inactions - I don’t know what they were. I’m also hope it doesn’t appear that I’m saying what they should’ve done - that would be pointless. Based on the few facts provided to the public, life experience, what I’ve read on here, and interviews from family regarding the type of girls Libby and Abby were I find myself questioning the theory of abduction at gun point and total compliance - definitely open minded though.

 

[Cutiekitty]

MOO any one saying they saw a vehicle is at least going to say if was a car, motorcycle, or truck and basic color.

Probably sedan or hatch back too (if it’s a car).

Edit: they’ll probably have them look at pics of cars to help narrow things down too. I don’t know cars at all and that would be helpful for me.

 

[MDATCA]

I understand the many reasons why LE is withholding info but I do think they should consider releasing more (if they have it that is not horrific to hear) than that small bit of video and audio that they have released.

My thoughts are is that the 2 or 3 steps are not enough to pick up his mannerisms or way he carries his body and the audio is not his day to day speaking voice.

 

[Kateinfl]

Well, I guess the way that reads to me is that LE thinks the car IS linked to BG. They want people who saw a car parked there that day to call in with the description. I'm interested to know how LE even knows about a car to begin with. Witness statements, cam footage? I think they have the color, make, etc., and only want help from those tipsters who can match that information. Otherwise, why such a vague reference? It's all very curious.

Maybe by parking there..it would be a quick way out....and so the police are just guessing...and asking if anyone saw any car there between those hours to let them know. That way it would just be another possible way to find the killer.

 

[sunshineray]

August 14th, 2017 (6 months after the murders):

“We are getting closer every day. I know that is cliché but we are. We are stronger than ever and we are getting more people involved, so I think that the time is coming,” said Sgt. Holeman.

Also:

"Sgt. Holeman tells us several people have come forward and said they saw the killer walking on the trails the day Abby and Libby were killed. Those people helped develop a composite sketch that was released last month."

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

I think those are the people who composed collectively the description of that first sketch released, it,was a composite. The new one, the single witness, obviously saw BG looking much different. Maybe he'd shed his outer wear and hat/scarf?

 

[tresir2012]

I don’t ever recall the media reporting that Libby had a Facebook acct, yet according to LE she did. I posted the link a couple days ago but I’ll look for it again.

Misty, I just spent time looking back at thread 1 first 10 pages and there are Facebook links for both girls (actually two for Libby ) but none now appear to work. However, it could be that they are no longer public or because I am not a FB member, but clearly they did have them. I'll see if I can post a link to the actual page (s).

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[MassGuy]

Misty, I just spent time looking back at thread 1 first 5-10 pages and there are Facebook links for both girls (actually two for Libby ) but none now appear to work. However, it could be that they are no longer public or because I am not a FB member, but clearly they did have them. I'll see if I can post a link to the actual page (s).

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1

Here’s one of Libby’s, and Abby’s:

https://m.facebook.com/liberty.german?tsid=0.4559610200568267&source=result

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010623611166&pn_ref=friends_search

 

[Cutiekitty]

Hmmm...watching? Or in the room? If it’s simply “watching”, that could mean online etc.

Or is someone in custody for another crime and they have a TV set up for said someone in a jail cell to watch? If so, I sure hope they are loop playing it 24/7 at high volume to break someone who knows something into talking.

I’ve been wondering about that too. Not the person previously eluded to, but someone in jail. They said BG might have shown violence after the crime. Maybe he was locked up for a domestic.

Also working through the possibility of a jail house snitch being the witness they’ve been talking about. It’s assumed they are referring to a witness from the time of the incident, but maybe that’s not the case and someone wants some time knocked off their sentence. This is all based on nothing and purely something I was thinking about.

 

[Cutiekitty]

<modsnipped>

...or IS LE as bradfordsleuth hypothesized earlier (page 17)
That could be the reason we witnessed DC's extreme outrage and distress at the 4.22.19 press conference....ultimate betrayal of LE by LE.
MOO
Rest in heavenly peace, Abby and Libby.
(Forgive me...Jamie 737 is who I intended to quote. More coffee, please.)

Hate to admit it, but that was my first thought based on how DC was acting. I don’t want that to be the case at all though.

 

[tresir2012]

If you go here, you can search Libby’s friends list for Abby.

https://m.facebook.com/liberty.german?tsid=0.4559610200568267&source=result

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010623611166&pn_ref=friends_search

You have to be a FB member to access these. I'm not but anyone who is should/may be able to access them.

 

[MistyWaters]

Misty, I just spent time looking back at thread 1 first 5-10 pages and there are Facebook links for both girls (actually two for Libby ) but none now appear to work. However, it could be that they are no longer public or because I am not a FB member, but clearly they did have them. I'll see if I can post a link to the actual page (s).

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Thanks very much! Unfortunately I’m unable to read FB as I’m a non FB member. Abby had a FB acct also, I notice. Libby had at least two FB accts?

 

[Cutiekitty]

Announcement - After 2+ years of sleuthing this case I now have 10 live males, 1 dead male, 1 jailed male, and one live lesbian on my suspects list. I hope and am sure that they are all probably innocent...... If this case remains unsolved much longer, I will donate my suspects list for the 2020 Delphi, Indiana area, US Census Bureaus use...... Someone solve this case, please !......Harmony, You got any donuts left ?...Hint,hint, hint......?.......moo

Reading your suspect list just made coke come out of my nose. I feel bad finding humor of a forum like this, but you made me laugh.

Edit: Coca Cola not cocaine.

 

[Theforeigner]

And what knowledge do you think one of the girls could possibly have that would destroy his life and lead to their murder? I’m curious. I’ve never bought into that theory. It sounds a little too TV-ish to me. JMO.

My theory; Child sexual abuse

 

[cody22]

Here’s one of Libby’s, and Abby’s:

https://m.facebook.com/liberty.german?tsid=0.4559610200568267&source=result

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010623611166&pn_ref=friends_search

Thank you for sharing these....moo

 

[Boxer]

It's really not that odd. Many people have commented on here and spoke of similar experiences where they've been met with someone brandishing a weapon or they've been threatened. You really can't underestimate the body's reaction to fear and trauma. In the movies, criminal situations are lengthened for entertainment purposes. In real life, most crimes take place very quickly and oftentimes the crime is almost over before the person is even able to react. The girls could've been approached, threatened, and ushered down the hillside before they really even knew what was going on. We talk about this case in hindsight and it's easy enough to play Monday morning quarterback from afar, but we really have no idea how they would have reacted or what they tried to do. We don't know that they didn't try to run or that they didn't put up a fight. And even though one was interested in forensic science, and they were not "little" girls in terms of size (I'm 4'10" and they were both bigger than me), they were still little girls.

MOO reaction is about the particular situation, .it all depends how close the handgun is. Your instincts deliver instant risk calculation.
Basically he sucker punched them, using common courtesy as getting close was his main weapon.

When a handgun is too close and aimed at you, your instincts to tell you the aggressor probably can't miss and running won't work. With more distance there more impulse to run and take a risk to dodge and hide behind obstructions.

By surprising with sprint I think he was able to get a hold of Abby on the bridge, and then by having control of her, had control of both.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Could someone tell me what that little circle icon in the upper right hand corner of Libby's snapchat photo of Abby is?

It’s counting down time once it gets all blacked out it switches to a new story/photo. If you don’t screen shot what you are looking at it disappears and you can’t go back to it.

 

[gitana1]

With the additional information from LE and the profiler I now really wonder if the murderer used a ruse to get the girls to walk to creek edge and his pre-selected killing spot.

What that ruse was may be in the gap in the audio.

Given the emotion this evokes in Carter it’s possible that the killer pretended to be a police officer. Wouldn’t that be terrible?

The emotion is normal and understandable. As I've said, he's heard them die. He heard their last moments. He saw their bodies. He's met many times with their loved ones and stared into their eyes.

I remember how emotional Chief Tim Longo was during the Hannah Graham case.

This becomes personal to them.

I think one of the girls was 5’4” (maybe 5’3”) and the other 5’5”/150lbs so they weren’t physically that little. If BG is 5’8” - 5’10”/180-200lbs they weren't that outmatched in size. Plus, they were both athletes. If they fought it was a heck of a fight. They also were both into law enforcement. It’s hard for me to see them compliantly and silently being abducted and allowing BG to do what he wanted even if he was armed. Not saying that didn’t happen it’s just so odd.

Odd? They're kids. I don't care about their size. That's irrelevant.

Many females in general don't fight back. For various reasons. And these were kids. Kids taught to obey authority as most kids are.

It would be relatively easy to control, assault and kill kids this age without detection, IMO.

From a site about sexual assault about "fighting back":

If a victim does not say "no" or does not "fight back," it is not sexual assault.
False. Sexual assault victims may not say "no" or not fight back for a variety of reasons including fear and confusion. Rape victims often report being "frozen" by fear during the assault, making them unable to fight back (this is known as “tonic immobility”); other victims may not actively resist for fear of angering the assailant and causing him to use more force in the assault. Pressure to be liked and not be talked about negatively by a peer will sometimes cause adolescents or children to avoid fighting back or actively resisting.

California Megans Law

BBM.