Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

[MassGuy]

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I can understand not seeing them..but anybody in the vicinity should have heard screams, or frenzied sounds of rustling leaves, sound travels further and clearer through barren trees. From what I read and watch, the Bridge is a quiet peaceful place I just don't know how BG did this so covertly if he isn't an experienced killer.

The girls may not have had a chance to scream, or may have been too scared to (as counterintuitive as that is).

If they did scream, it’s entirely possible that no one was around to hear them.

I don’t take this as any indication that this guy is experienced, in fact, I take his actions as being a sign of the opposite.

He could have been spotted walking in.

He could have been spotted on the trail.

He could have been spotted on the way out.

Someone could have seen the attack.

Broad daylight attacks are inherently risky, and we do know that people likely saw him at various points.

Libby was able to capture him on her phone, and he neglected to remove it.

He’s incredibly lucky that he wasn’t caught right away.

 

[cluciano63]

Even if there were footprints...sometimes footprints just go a little ways and then taper off and disappear, depending if one area was damp, then dry etc...or if shoes were damp at first. I notice all the time my footprints and my dog’s on sidewalk if grass was damp but then they stop. And we still kept walking. So they could have just ended.

 

[Quinquin]

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Yup. I think they froze, complied, and stuck together.

The only way they would have survived, is if they ran in opposite directions.

That went against their instincts though, and against their nature. They weren’t leaving one another.

If there was indeed a gun, then I could see the girls possibly screaming and/or running, the girls freezing and compliant also makes sense at gunpoint. I was just thinking BG could have ALSO gotten them to do his bidding by acting as an adult authoritarian and told them they couldn't cross back over the bridge (for safety reasons) but he could show them where to cross creek to get to the other side. He gained their trust as opposed to threatening them with a gun. BG might have surmised that this approach would make the situation much easier and safer for him to get the girls from point A to point B. Then he attacked them. Didn't give them time to react. From his perspective he wouldn't have to risk losing control of the girls who trusted him at this point when they were all three walking from the bridge, down the hill, across the creek, etc., in other words..out in the open... to the spot of his ambush.

 

[MistyWaters]

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I can understand not seeing them..but anybody in the vicinity should have heard screams, or frenzied sounds of rustling leaves, sound travels further and clearer through barren trees. From what I read and watch, the Bridge is a quiet peaceful place I just don't know how BG did this so covertly if he isn't an experienced killer.

The length of the bridge is reported to be 853 feet, that’s almost 3 football fields. Perhaps the girls were too terrified to scream, once they realized danger. And although nobody heard anything serious enough to call 911, we don’t know if someone heard something at the time but only reported it after they realized it might be connected to the murders. The mind can play tricks especially if the sound is not prolonged. It’s very common to hear something and but then rationalize it as something different and ordinary.

But I do agree, it’s almost impossible to imagine what could’ve occurred especially not knowing how the girls were initially approached.

 

[susiQ]

They are likely trying to prompt somebody to associate that sketch with that car, and then make that one tip that is needed to break the case wide open.

I think they know about the car from the witness that gave the description for the first sketch made that was disregarded for two years. She saw something that she felt needed to be reported. Her description of the perp may have included the description of the car he was in or around. Now they need someone else to fill in some blanks. At least that's how it appears to me at the moment. JMO

eta: Wouldn't it be nice to know what she saw and where and why all of the sudden it's so important to the investigation?

 

[MistyWaters]

[



If there was indeed a gun, then I could see the girls possibly screaming and/or running, the girls freezing and compliant also makes sense at gunpoint. I was just thinking BG could have ALSO gotten them to do his bidding by acting as an adult authoritarian and told them they couldn't cross back over the bridge (for safety reasons) but he could show them where to cross creek to get to the other side. He gained their trust as opposed to threatening them with a gun. BG might have surmised that this approach would make the situation much easier and safer for him to get the girls from point A to point B. Then he attacked them. Didn't give them time to react. From his perspective he wouldn't have to risk losing control of the girls who trusted him at this point when they were all three walking from the bridge, down the hill, across the creek, etc., in other words..out in the open... to the spot of his ambush.

I’ve wondered about something for quite some time. Is it possible to scream and run at the same time? I’m imagining that running in panicked terror requires full concentration including deep breathing in and out. Wouldn’t the act of screaming cause a shortness of breathe? If so, especially if a victim knew nobody was close enough to intervene, wouldn’t it be advantageous to just focus on attempting to flee? ie fight or flight.

 

[Wells]

I am still thinking about the car angle. They have a sketch of a suspect. Lets says they really do not know who it is. I'm doubtful that's the case but for the sake of this argument, that's the foundation. They know a vehicle was parked at the building, but they really and truly dont know what it looked like for some unknown reason. Maybe they are working backwards. If you find the vehicle, you find the owner.

 

[Boxer]

I am still thinking about the car angle. They have a sketch of a suspect. Lets says they really do not know who it is. I'm doubtful that's the case but for the sake of this argument, that's the foundation. They know a vehicle was parked at the building, but they really and truly dont know what it looked like for some unknown reason. Maybe they are working backwards. If you find the vehicle, you find the owner.

MOO any one saying they saw a vehicle is at least going to say if was a car, motorcycle, or truck and basic color.

 

[Wells]

MOO any one saying they saw a vehicle is at least going to say if was a car, motorcycle, or truck and basic color.

True. But it could have been a very common vehicle for the area: white pickup, gray SUV, etc. Just examples. They may need a more detailed description.

 

[mtnlites]

[


I can understand not seeing them..but anybody in the vicinity should have heard screams, or frenzied sounds of rustling leaves, sound travels further and clearer through barren trees. From what I read and watch, the Bridge is a quiet peaceful place I just don't know how BG did this so covertly if he isn't an experienced killer.

Unfortunately this DOES seem to happen. It's like the perp has some kind of unearthly good luck. Like when someone's heavily intoxicated and crashes into another car on the interstate-the innocent people all die while the intoxicated walk out without a scratch. I think most of what happened with the Delphi crime comes down to dumb luck, not skill. If he'd been a few minutes earlier or later then he may not have gotten away with it for as long as he has.

As far as not hearing anything...The sound of leaves rustling wouldn't have registered to me if I'd been there. There are always noises in that park; rustling leaves wouldn't have been out of place enough to raise my hairs. And perhaps the girls just didn't get the chance to scream or they were too afraid. Sometimes it's hard to separate what we think we would have done from what actually happened.

 

[wgram]

I think they know about the car from the witness that gave the description for the first sketch made that was disregarded for two years. She saw something that she felt needed to be reported. Her description of the perp may have included the description of the car he was in or around. Now they need someone else to fill in some blanks. At least that's how it appears to me at the moment. JMO

eta: Wouldn't it be nice to know what she saw and where and why all of the sudden it's so important to the investigation?

BBM Yes it would I think you might be onto something there. She could have seen him around the car. I just wish that whomever knows what happened and yes there has to be someone.. I wish they would come forth this case is been cold too long.........MOO

 

[mtnlites]

I’ve wondered about something for quite some time. Is it possible to scream and run at the same time? I’m imagining that running in panicked terror requires full concentration including deep breathing in and out. Wouldn’t the act of screaming cause a shortness of breathe? If so, especially if a victim knew nobody was close enough to intervene, wouldn’t it be advantageous to just focus on attempting to flee? ie fight or flight.

I think it's possible to scream and run at the same time, but I think that the image of the young woman tearing through the forest and yelling at the top of her lungs is probably more Hollywood than reality inspired. In real life things happen like you freezing, running out of breath, confusion, or just flat out not being able to bring forth the sound that you want. Have you ever tried screaming in your dreams? Like when you're trying so hard to yell as loudly as you can but the only thing coming out is a little yelp that's barely above a whisper? I think that sometimes happens in real life, too. The one time I saw someone running in terror she wasn't screaming, per se, just kind of panting really hard and gasping, "Oh my god, oh my god," as she ran.

 

[cody22]

BBM Yes it would I think you might be onto something there. She could have seen him around the car. I just wish that whomever knows what happened and yes there has to be someone.. I wish they would come forth this case is been cold too long.........MOO

Opinion -After the last LE PC....... I think LE knows the basic color of that vehicle and I believe that one of their suspects has/had a vehicle like that one seen. I believe this suspect resembles BG2. I also believe someone in the suspect's family is "alibing" for the suspect for the day of February 13th and will not give him up......moo

 

[wgram]

I have wondered about that too. My thoughts are, like you said, he was already set up across the creek for the crime. Or, the girls ran across the creek to try and escape.

BBM Waiting like a spider to catch his prey in his web.

 

[mtnlites]

I think they know about the car from the witness that gave the description for the first sketch made that was disregarded for two years. She saw something that she felt needed to be reported. Her description of the perp may have included the description of the car he was in or around. Now they need someone else to fill in some blanks. At least that's how it appears to me at the moment. JMO

eta: Wouldn't it be nice to know what she saw and where and why all of the sudden it's so important to the investigation?

I know we're not allowed to discuss SM here, but I've honestly yet to even come across a rumor like this on the other forums. (A similar one about a man and a vehicle, but wrong location.) So whoever the witness is, they've kept pretty quiet about what they saw and what happened. It hasn't leaked. If LE didn't put much stock into the witness's tip or sketch then it's interesting that the witness wasn't out there in Internetland talking about it. I find that in and of itself worth thinking about.

 

[wgram]

Opinion -After the last LE PC....... I think LE knows the basic color of that vehicle and I believe that one of their suspects has a vehicle like that one seen. I believe this suspect resembles BG2. I also believe someone in the suspect's family is "alibing" for the suspect for the day of February 13th and will not give him up......moo

MOO I couldn't agree more

 

[Sneaker33]

I wonder if the killer knocked one or both girls unconscious. I suspect he had a knife and possibly gun. I also wonder if the girls could have been hit over head from behind with a rock or other object.

 

[MassGuy]

I’ve been reading vintage crime stories recently, and this particular one caught my eye, as it very similar.

It happened in 1865, in the woods just outside of Boston.

A brother (age 12) and sister (14-15) were exploring, when they were attacked by a man wielding a knife.

The girl was the main target, as she was sexually assaulted before she was killed. Her brother tried to run, but he was also stabbed to death.

The killer was never caught.

https://www.google.com/amp/jamaicaplaingazette.com/2012/07/20/unsolved-murders-that-haunt-jp/amp/

 

[enelram]

I'm wondering how much involvement the local Delphi Police Department has in the investigation with Indiana State Police and FBI?

It's a very small force, an older Chief, a sergeant and 5 very young
fellows.
According to violent crime reports I've seen, other than assaults,
they have zero experience with investigating murders the last few years. It seems like a sleepy little town.
Interestingly Indiana State Police does not report their clearance
(solving) rates in the crime statistics report for last few years.

It takes experienced, educated investigators and competent forensic people to solve crimes and convict criminals. These small towns are at
a distinct disadvantage, IMO.

 

[Jax49]

The Delphi Police Department, the Carroll County Sheriff, the Indiana State Police, and the FBI are working together.

IIRC, the FBI has been helping since the initial search.

moo