IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it’s hard to know. During the Feb 2 year anniversary PC, posters here noticed the original sketch wasn’t being featured.

    Looking back it seems as if the April PC was a last resort that LE would’ve preferred to avoid entirely if they’d been able to make an arrest based on evidence involving this newer suspect, rather than releasing the new sketch and once again asking for tips.
     
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  2. Rosegold68

    Rosegold68 Well-Known Member

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    could he have followed them in from the town? maybe saw them all in the car

    who dropped them off? could he be an acquaintance of that person?
     
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  3. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    “They are not the same person” typically refers to two different people.
     
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  4. observantbystander

    observantbystander Active Member

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    Hi all, long time lurker first time posting. This is probably going to be a really long post, as I want to get everything I’ve been pondering on here to see what you guys think.

    Everything below is my amateur opinion and speculation, nothing is to be taken as fact.

    I wonder with the new sketch, if NBG is towards the younger end of the age range given by investigators. I’m thinking somewhere around 18 at the time the murders were committed, as he would possibly be more free to come and go from his parents house without having to explain where he’s going or what he’s doing. Following this train of thought, the following is just me trying to think of a different possibility that I have not seen posted. (This case is what brought me to websleuths, so I’ve read a good majority of the earlier threads, but could have missed some of this being discussed or forgotten about it as we are on thread #103 now...)

    Maybe BG was a high schooler that had the day off as well. I wonder if he had been playing around with different nefarious fantasies in his head and the day the girls were murdered, was him acting out on these fantasies.

    As far as his disguise, if he was a high schooler, I could see him borrowing dad’s clothes to disguise himself as being older than he actually was.

    I wonder if he went to the bridge with the intention of kidnapping someone, as it would be a popular hangout spot for teens. I also wonder if he had an extra change of “just in case” clothes in his car.

    I don’t believe that he would have parked at the old abandoned DCS building, as that would have been a bit of a walk for him to get to while controlling whomever he ended up trying to abduct. To me, the spot that makes the most sense for him to park his vehicle is somewhere along the highlighted road that TL4S was kind enough to post. (I had to steal your picture and upload it myself because I couldn’t figure out how to reply to your thread and include the picture. Sorry if this is not allowed, I wanted it to be easier for you guys to see the image I was referencing. Again thanks TL4S for uploading the image.)

    I believe that he passed the girls going NB on the bridge and then turned around as some have speculated. This is what makes the most sense to me. If his car was parked somewhere along that path, it would be easier to get someone back to the vehicle without being spotted by other trail goers, plus it wouldn’t arouse suspicion from the girls immediately as they could have thought it was someone that had been walking the trails and was going back over the bridge to get to their car and leave.

    I believe LG’s hinky meter went off as he turned around on the bridge and she was able to think quickly about getting her phone out and recording him. I believe she was waiting on AW to get off of the bridge before they ran, as it has been stated by family that the girls would not leave each other. I also don’t think AW was aware of the urgency that she needed to get off of the bridge, as she would have had her back to BG and not seen him turn around, and LG couldn’t really say anything without tipping BG off that she knew he was going to do something.

    With LG being aware enough to get video, I believe they knew the rule of not letting your abductor get you to a second location.

    I believe he caught up to AW and LG at the south end of the bridge and was trying to get them to go right towards his parked vehicle along the highlighted path. Instead, I believe the girls took off to the left, as it would be impossible for them to run back across the bridge due to its instability.

    I believe their intention was to run the way they went, over the river and through the cemetery to get back to the main road and head towards the drop off location, hoping to find someone to help them, and having the video to show LE the perpetrator that attempted to abduct them.

    Unfortunately, I believe BG caught up to them at the cemetery and forced them back down the hill, to where they were found. I believe that’s when the audio that was released was recorded, and I believe that will be all that will be released audio-wise as the video could be nothing but the girls trying to make their desperate escape, which no one needs to hear.

    I believe what was supposed to be a smooth abduction turned into a chase to prevent the girls from IDing him and then a rage killing as how could they even have the audacity to think they could escape from him.

    I believe that the BG went back the way they came after washing up a bit in the river, and went back to his parked car, changed into his backup clothes and left.

    I believe the reason they released a sketch and not a picture is because the only clear shot they have of his face, that AW was in the frame at an angle that it would be impossible to crop or edit her out. I believe this was at the south end of the bridge right before they made a run for it.

    I don’t believe that BG had a gun, I tend to lean more towards a knife as it wouldn’t seem odd for someone to be carrying a knife on their person. I live 1 1/2 hours away from Delphi and it wouldn’t strike me odd at all if I saw someone carrying a knife on them. Most of the guys I know have at least a pocket knife on them for multiple uses.
    <modsnip - speculation too graphic>
    I believe the hair on NBG in the newest sketch is just a generic hairstyle, much like how they “plug in” hair and eye color when doing a facial reconstruction on a John/Jane Doe’s skull. As he was wearing a hat in the video, it would make sense that they would have the face, but have to “plug in” a generic hairstyle to make the sketch look complete. I believe they left the hat off to give a “cleaner” look to the sketch and make it look more like what BG looks like normally.

    I also believe that the request for the information about the vehicle was an appeal to the witness that came forward a few days after the girls were discovered. I believe the witness was one of BG’s friends that was hanging out at the freedom bridge with other teens most of the day. I believe that BG came and met up with them after the murders to create an alibi. I could see BG acting weird once there were searchers out there so quickly, and it striking the friend as odd enough to call in a tip.

    I believe his story was dismissed early on as either BG had someone to give him an airtight alibi as to where he was before he met up with his buddies, or because there were more witnesses on the trail that were describing someone that looked more like OBG. As the case seems to have more investigators going back over it with “fresh eyes”, I believe someone caught this information that had been previously disregarded or forgotten, and now they are smacking theirselves in the face as to why it was overlooked earlier. I also believe that the friend came back in and was requestioned with LE taking their statement more seriously this time, since they are no longer requesting information on the vehicle.

    I believe them saying that they’re “one tip away” is them appealing to whomever has given BG their airtight alibi. I believe it is them telling the person to stop covering for him, can’t you see he is a monster? Look at what he did to these poor girls.

    I believe the reason that no one is jumping up and pointing a finger to him is because he, in a way, is similar to Ted Bundy, in the sense that he seems like a completely normal person in his day to day life. I believe he is one of those kinds of people that the locals are looking at his similarities to the sketch, but then saying “oh it couldn’t be him, he’s the nicest guy in town, always going out of his way to help others. He’s smart and is going places, there’s no way he would be behind something so heinous.”

    I also agree with other posters that he is the kind of person that can lie seamlessly, without anyone ever questioning his lies. I believe he is someone that has worked hard on his everyday appearance to people so that when he did act out on his fantasies, no one would ever think to question him. I believe that when he is caught, there are going to be a lot of people that are completely flabbergasted that he was behind it.

    Everything above is MOO. Just throwing my thoughts out there, please feel free to pick it apart because it seems like every other avenue has been exhausted.

    Praying today is the day we catch this monster.
     

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  5. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    You'd think that people in BG's life would do the right thing if they knew or suspected, but that doesn't always happen. Lauria Bible and Ashley Freeman were abducted, held for some time, assaulted, and then murdered. At least a dozen people over the years knew who did it, some even saw pictures, and not a single person turned the men in. And those girls were also teenagers.
     
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  6. missmargot

    missmargot Well-Known Member

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    I get that, but LE are being understandably vague on many things. The post I was quoting talked of a misleading witness and I was following through on that theory. If that were the case I don’t think LE would come out and say “sorry guys, that sketch we’ve been asking everyone to identify for over a year, well it turns out we were misled”. They also haven’t said that they have identified the person in the sketch and ruled them out.

    I’ve been following and researching this case a lot more than I’ve been posting and that’s my interpretation of events. MOO of course and not one I expect others to share.
     
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  7. zencompass

    zencompass May today be the day. Justice for Abby and Libby.

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    Dear @observantbystander,


    Excellent first post!

    Welcome to this thread - so glad you're here!
     
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  8. TheVisual

    TheVisual Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if anyone has come forth that was at the cemetery that day even though it was cold.
     
  9. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Thanks Angel. <3 Yeah, it's a pretty crappy club to belong to. Definitely not one I'd wish membership upon anybody. Don't know that my husband and I'd still be here without the other two little ones. Sometimes I look at these families whose children have died as a result of crime and I wonder how they're doing it, how they're getting through the day. And then I think, well, probably the same way I did. It's not like you have much of a choice. World keeps spinning, sun keeps coming up, people keep going on with their lives-and that's one of the crappiest things of all. When a child dies it feels like the world SHOULD just come to a complete stop. I spent the first few years being pretty pissed off that it didn't. I can completely understand why many of these families devote their lives to seeking justice or helping others.
     
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  10. zencompass

    zencompass May today be the day. Justice for Abby and Libby.

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    Dear @missmargot,

    This is exactly how I see it. Someone mislead the police by describing the features in the old sketch (by making it similar to the B.G. photo).

    I, too, call this a red herring as defined by the dictionary: "something, especially a clue, that is or is intended to be misleading or distracting."

    My thought is that Superintendent Doug Carter expressed anger through his words at the press conference because the L.E. had come to the realization that they had been misled.

    The person in the first (original) sketch hasn't been found because he doesn't exist.

    The recently released sketch of a clean cut young guy is their suspect who disguised himself (in the video Libby took).





     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  11. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean? The first sketch does not resemble the suspect, but that does not mean he does not exist.
    Unless you mean maybe someone just made up the description based on the video?
     
  12. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Not that popular, especially that far out of downtown. You'll see kids riding bikes around their neighborhoods, and adults sometimes riding them in town, but it's not very common to see anyone riding to the park. Biking is not much of an alternative form of transportation there. In some of the bigger towns, and the college towns, you'll see it more often.
     
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  13. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    I think all they said was the person depicted in the first sketch is no longer a suspect. Imo
     
  14. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    I'm confused about this as well. Just because the original sketch isn't BG doesn't mean that the person the sketch is based upon doesn't exist. He could exist, could have been at the park that day, but just isn't the person who killed the girls. Whether the sketch was provided to intentionally throw LE off BG's trail or it was an innocent mistake is (to me) still up in the air.
     
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  15. missmargot

    missmargot Well-Known Member

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    MsBetsy I’ve quoted above from zencompass who has expressed what I was trying to say far better than I did.
     
  16. kc1023

    kc1023 Well-Known Member

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    If we pass by someone riding a bike dressed like BG, my daughters say "oh look, he has a DUI" lol
     
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  17. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

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    I hope!!
     
  18. zencompass

    zencompass May today be the day. Justice for Abby and Libby.

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    Dear missmargot,

    You did say it perfectly.

    Someone described features to the police sketch artist that were similar to the B.G. photo - whether "intentionally" misleading the police or not.

    Unfortunately the L.E. went with the "misleading" sketch instead of the sketch done by the police (from a witness) a few days after the murders.

    I think this is the reason there was anger in Doug Carter's voice during the recent press conference.

    They were misled by someone who just described what he/she saw in the B.G. photo which had been released by L.E.

    It was like releasing a sketch of someone in costume instead of the person who is in the costume - i.e. showing his face.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  19. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Here’s the link to the various updates following the PC, including specific reference to the sketches. In all fairness we only know what LE tells us and I suppose we can choose to not believe them. But then really what purpose does that serve given we all hope for same outcome - for LE to get the one tip they’re waiting for and for this case to be solved.

    Indiana State Police release new sketch of Delphi murder suspect | Carroll County Calendar
    UPDATE FROM INDIANA STATE POLICE ON APRIL 24, 2019:

    Delphi, Indiana – In the early days and months of the Delphi Murder investigation information was developed about suspect descriptions. It was initially believed the sketch that has been in public view over the last two years of a person in the age range of his 40’s to 50’s was a person of interest in this murder investigation. Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed, it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22nd more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

    It is important to distinguish these points about the two sketches:

    • They are not the same person
    • The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation
    • The sketch released on April 22nd is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge
    • The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
    • This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch
    Members of the Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22nd, especially if that person has changed their appearance since the murders occurred in February of 2017.
     
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  20. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

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    My 15 y/o son is exactly like that! But he'll sometimes have a hoodie because he's chilly. :p
     
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