IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Count me in as someone who doesn't think he made an effort to go unseen, either. He was walking out in the open on a bridge that's literally up in the air where many people down below and on either side could spot him, he's wearing regular clothes that look like articles that many average men in the area wear, and despite not being caught yet, he visited a park in which he was likely to encounter multiple people. It doesn't matter where he parked, really. Cemetery, the CPS lot, the "parking lot" there by the park-none of these locations are hidden and the CPS lot is even highly visible from the highway.
     
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  2. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    SBM

    I think he was just overly confident and underestimated the girls. IMO he looked at them, saw 2 kids, and figured they be easy targets. He may have been cocky enough to think that he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it. And despite the fact that he hasn't been caught, yet, he was wrong. Even if it was just getting him on video with the phone, they fought back.
     
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  3. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Yeah, these types of things don't tend to happen in places that have a lot of LE presence-it's one of the reasons why people choose to do it in that location. For the record, I've never seen anyone committing any criminal activity there, but I can definitely buy that it happens.
     
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  4. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know that pings give precise location. I think it’s just which tower it hit, but it could be anywhere within the tower range. I do find the comment by MP to be interesting though and initially I dismissed it.
    Still thinking about that.
     
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  5. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Yeah, each tower covers a certain mileage range. The ping would show that it was in the vicinity of the CPS lot, but it wouldn't be specific to show if it was actually in the lot or across the street/down the road, etc.
     
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  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I would think there would be even more LE presence in that case, especially if they were aware of it. Imo
     
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  7. MDATCA

    MDATCA Well-Known Member

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    Not only a size disadvantage but as far as we see he was dressed in a way with very little skin exposure for the girls to scratch or attack effectively. I think he did that intentionally.
     
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  8. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    We do know this new sketch was done within three days. We don't know why it was shelved. Speculating from what was said at the 4/22 PC it could be he was identified and discounted, once they had the video or by alibi or by something else e.g. mistake or deliberate misleading by a witness or that witness has been arrested for something else since this sketch has now been brought into play. If it was discounted by alibi and is somehow related to the vehicle, then I believe they may well know who that sketch represents. MOO.
     
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  9. Beth11311

    Beth11311 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. IMO crime of opportunity, 100%, and simply got “lucky” that there were two girls, and that he managed to subdue both.

    I don’t think he was looking for two, it’s just how it happened that day.

    There are many such cases but Karina Vetrano is another recent case which was opportunistic, began as a rape, under the cover of brush/trees/high grass, and ended in a gruesome murder. She too was at the wrong place, at the wrong time.

    Like you said, take away the fact that this was a double murder and the act itself becomes much less strange, IMO.
     
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  10. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    I think they must have got the info they wanted relating to the vehicle. Let's hope so anyway. JMO
     
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  11. JaneEyre

    JaneEyre Well-Known Member

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    It is confusing. I wonder if they changed from saying a female witness to witnesses simply as a precaution. Perhaps she or they were worried that her encounter with OBG would have been memorable and that he could come after her to silence her. But if they said there were multiple witnesses, he wouldn’t know who he needed to silence.
     
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  12. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    VERY good point. I'd like to say that's probably what happened because, otherwise, there was some major miscommunication going on.
     
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  13. Beth11311

    Beth11311 Well-Known Member

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    Simply based on past case studies and research, I think this guy has a lower IQ, low self-esteem, and is quite impulse driven. He may have some self-loathing etc but I do not believe that is why he was so brazen - I think he really just isn’t all that bright, to be honest. Not a criminal mastermind that some make him out to be.

    I don’t think that many of the factors we are considering (daylight, two girls, etc) came into play for him. Once he had it in his mind what he wanted to do, he set out to do it. He got lucky (not just in his victim choice but in the fact that he seemingly wasn’t seen, still hasn’t been caught, etc. MOO.

    Timing is everything. A few seconds or minutes can make all the difference between life and death - take a car accident for example. If Mr. X had left only 10 seconds later from his house, he would not have been in an intersection when a semi ran a red light and hit him.

    Had someone else decided to go for a run that day, had BG chose a different time to hunt etc we may not be discussing this case right now, MOO.

    The girls were just really, truly, terribly unlucky.
     
  14. bradfordsleuth

    bradfordsleuth Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Sadly, I think that may be why there could be very little DNA to work with.

    JMO
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  15. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I’ve always thought that report unusual because it’s contrary to the impression the trail was a quiet, safe place.

    It makes me wonder if LEs often expressed “somebody knows something” refers to others in a group who this person hangs out with. And while we think of the suspect as a lone attacker LE has never conclusively stated only one person was involved. Quite the opposite actually, they’ve always left open the possibility of more than one.

    Rather than this guy living at home with his parents, I think a group of hard-core drug users would be less likely to rat somebody out especially if they were involved in other illegal activities together.
     
  16. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    There is no honor amongst thieves. I think they’d rat him out in a second if they were colleagues. If they got incarcerated they’d talk to get a reduced sentence. If not, there is a large reward. It’s possible they are so incapacitated by drugs that they weren’t/aren’t even aware of the situation and if they are they just don’t care. JMO
     
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  17. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    July 17, 2017
    “Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails ...”

    Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

    Aug. 14 2017
    "Sgt. Holeman tells us several people have come forward and said they saw the killer walking on the trails the day Abby and Libby were killed. Those people helped develop a composite sketch that was released last month."

    Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

    But then on the Today show on Jan 16 2018 Megan Kelly asked Doug Carter:

    MK: Were there any eye witnesses who actually saw him?
    DC: No, there were not.

    Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

    No wonder we were confused before and even more so now.

    I believe that BG was on the trail leading to the bridge or close enough to it to see if anyone preceded Abby and Libby. If not, he probably felt he could take the chance of following them onto the bridge once they reached a certain point. When he was ready to make his move, he had the opportunity to look behind him to see if anyone else was on it, in which case he could abort his murderous plan.
     
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  18. Columbowannabe

    Columbowannabe New Member

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    Hi ‘guys!’ Just wanted to add my two cents on what kind of work the BG may do for a living that would give him the same time off as the kids. School bus driver. I am a school bus driver, and because I’m horrible with names, I use the term ‘guys’ all day long.
     
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  19. Han

    Han Well-Known Member

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    When I saw this interview I assumed Carter misinterpreted the question and answered as if he had been asked, “Were there any eyewitnesses who actually saw the crime occur?”
     
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  20. steeltowngirl

    steeltowngirl Well-Known Member

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    By chance, do you have a link for the first sentence?

    Reason I ask.... I am doing some comparisons of this case with other double murders. Kathy and Samantha Netherlands were killed in their home (different from Libby and Abby), but similar in that LE also await that “one tip” (a car).
     
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