Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

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But GPS, a function available for cellphones (if turned on) and on some vehicles is capable of tracking precise locations via satellite.

This is more of a question than a comment, or maybe both and if somebody knows how all this actually works, I'd be happy about an explanation.

This, of course, only works if they know the phone number. Or at least the phone's IMEI number (which stays the same even with a different SIM card, it's unique for every cell phone, like the DNA of the cell phone, if I understand correctly).

What about WiFi? Not saying that there is WiFi in the park, but probably in other places and people also have it at home (I don't, so that's why I don't really know how this works). But if you know what phone or phone number you are looking for and someone is moving with the phone, the phone will also log in and out and back in again at different WiFi's along the way. Which basically shows exactly where the phone is (or was). Just thinking that this might have been another way that they could have checked cell phones that were in or near the area at around the time of the crime, before and after. Or even the next day.

Plus, police can send silent SMS and track a phone that way (but again, you need to know which phone/number you are looking for, that is more something that they could have used to track Libby's phone, but I guess they just found it near her somewhere - but they could have tracked it with this if the monster would have taken her phone with him).

All MOO and as I understand it.
 
It could put a suspect in the area and possibly dispute an alibi. It could also identify potential witnesses. I’m sure they can narrow down a time frame (12-5) which reduces the amount of people to look at. The highway there would increase numbers though. If a judge said it was okay for them to get tower info there probably would be no problem with him/her agreeing to issue subpoenas. It’s all based on the same purpose. It would be a lot of info and labor intensive, but A really good thing to do IMO.

A judge would not issue a warrant to the cell tower owner(s) for the entirety of their user information. A particular person? Sure. Everyone? No.
 
Again, I am not sure myself, but the way it was explained to me is, you need some sort of imput/output from your phone. That determines signal strength, and the strength allows the 3 towers to triangulate and pinpoint location.
Imput/output could mean switching to wi-fi, downloading an app, or making/receiving a call.... some type of activity.
This is second hand information, and JMO.

The population of Delphi is only about 3000. So it would be unlikely it requires a high volume and close placement of cell towers as would, say a urban environment consisting of not only homes and businesses but high density multi family housing including highrise apartment buildings and condos concentrated in a much smaller area.

Early on these threads a poster here located cell tower coverage for Delphi and iirc it was served by only two towers. That would suggest at best, cell tower data would pinpoint cellphone locations to be within the town and immediate surrounding areas including the trail. At the time iirc this was also the possible explanation for Libby’s grandfather’s comment regarding her cellphone “pinging around town”.
 
Can't say for sure what this person is referring to, but I've seen optimistic speculation that they've identified the vehicle as a city owned vehicle but can't identify which employee drove it on that day.
Yes and city owned vehicles may be much harder to track because I think most city owned vehicles are used by multiple people and not assigned to a specific person. MOO
 
Reposted interview:

ISP superintendent provides update on Delphi double murder investigation

Date of Interview: 05/16/19


Interviewer: You said something during the briefing that struck me--you feel like the investigators may have talked to him. You think that at some point, or since then, one of your guys has gotten in front of this person and asked him questions, and if so, how, at that point, did it not lead to an arrest, and how could it be moving forward?

DC: Well, I think it's likely. I think it's likely. There's a lot of opinions out there, there's a lot of subjective opinions, there's a lot of analysis
being done, which we're trying to encourage folks to not do, those kinds of side-by-side analysis. I really believe, that over time, we're gonna have an idea that we were onto something early on. Now remember, this isn't a 43-minute TV show, we have to, we have to, we have to understand that's not just science, but it's also human intelligence, what people know.


(General interview wrap-up)

Snipped by me for brevity.

Thank you to those posters who have taken the time to transcribe. Every time I re-read the interviews I key in on differnt information.

In the above I was very disappointed in the interviewer. He tacked too many very important questions together which made DC get off track in answering. DC did answer the first question, confirming that he believes its likely that LE has questioned BG but he never responded to the second question regarding how it did not lead to an arrest. I would have loved to have heard that answer and to understand how, if BG was on their radar at the beginning, the sketch got shelved and they went in a different direction.
 
The population of Delphi is only about 3000. So it would be unlikely it requires a high volume and close placement of cell towers as would, say a densely populated urban environment consisting of high rise apartment buildings and condos.

Early on these threads a poster here located cell tower coverage for Delphi and iirc it was served by only two towers. That would suggest at best, cell tower data would pinpoint cellphone locations to be within the town and immediate surrounding areas including the trail. At the time iirc this was also the possible explanation for Libby’s grandfather’s comment regarding her cellphone “pinging around town”.
Exactly and every truck/car on that highway would be pinging off the towers. MOO
 
A judge would not issue a warrant to the cell tower owner(s) for the entirety of their user information. A particular person? Sure. Everyone? No.

Even if a Judge did, then what? LE contacts every person, questioning them on why they or their cellphone was in Delphi on the afternoon of Feb 13, 2017? Although we’d all like this case to be solved, I think that’d be an incredibly futile task.

Besides, just because a cellphone was in Delphi doesn’t prove the account holder was.
 
This indicates to me it could be someone young enough at that time not to have a felony conviction that would have ended up in CODIS. As the perpetrator gets older the hope is there that he will commit a felony that DNA can be taken (based on the new law) so the chances he will be caught get better every day.

Very likely, they don’t have him in CODIS. They need a match of his DNA with the DNA they have. If they suspect someone, they can rule the person in, or out.

For old unsolved killers, they use CODIS or GEDMATCH.

Last year my husband and I took dna tests. I talked him into it because I was adopted and wanted to close the book on who I assumed my parent was. He knows his family. Out of all the relatives that showed up for him, not one single relative was from his father's side out of over 1k. Out of his Mother's side, he knows absolutely none. All distant cousins. We thought this must be a mistake so his sister took the test. Same result. No one from father's side at all and all others distant and unknown. I know if you trace familial dna this could be solved had he committed a crime himself but it would be so very time consuming.

Paula, you probably did testing in a commercial system, and that is all. Your husband’s relatives either did not get tested, or could have tested in another system. I downloaded our DNA results from the commercial systems to Gedmatch, to Geni, to MyHeritage, transferred DNA from a relative to FTDNA, and with time, closer relatives did appear. Also, there is a system, DNA.land, Columbia University asks to download DNAs there as they are studying genetics of breast cancer. Asians tested in one of our commercial systems can transfer the results to WeGene. It is not hopeless.
Commercial testing companies say that for West Europeans, especially of British origin, they can tell what county the ancestors were from.
 
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Exactly and every truck/car on that highway would be pinging off the towers. MOO

Yes, but:

Phones in cars traveling the roads: Pinging and moving on, pinging and moving on, pinging and moving on.

VS

Phone in car (or on the ground, or on a person not moving): Pinging and not moving, pinging and not moving, pinging and not moving.

You get the picture.
 
Even if a Judge did, then what? LE contacts every person, questioning them on why they or their cellphone was in Delphi on the afternoon of Feb 13, 2017? Although we’d all like this case to be solved, I think that’d be an incredibly futile task.

Besides, just because a cellphone was in Delphi doesn’t prove the account holder was.

True. And maybe her boyfriend took the phone. But the story about the cellphone could be of interest.
 
The population of Delphi is only about 3000. So it would be unlikely it requires a high volume and close placement of cell towers as would, say a urban environment consisting of not only homes and businesses but high density multi family housing including highrise apartment buildings and condos concentrated in a much smaller area.

Early on these threads a poster here located cell tower coverage for Delphi and iirc it was served by only two towers. That would suggest at best, cell tower data would pinpoint cellphone locations to be within the town and immediate surrounding areas including the trail. At the time iirc this was also the possible explanation for Libby’s grandfather’s comment regarding her cellphone “pinging around town”.
The “pinging around town” can be caused from the cell towers “load balancing” and not due to the geographic location of the phone.
Some apps, if you opt in, will geo-locate you, and indicate where you are at the time of an interaction with the app.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Reposted interview:

ISP superintendent provides update on Delphi double murder investigation

Date of Interview: 05/16/19

Interviewer: The quiet period ends today in the Delphi murder investigation. It has been more than two years since the murders, and two weeks since the release of new clues in the case. State police said they would wait to say more until more tips came in, and give time for the families to absorb the new information.

Interviewer: Well, that time has passed now, and State Superintendent D. Car**r (DC) is here now. Good morning, Sir.


DC: Good morning, S****.

Interiewer: We've been reporting on Day Break that some 3,000 tips have come in since the release of the new information. Is any of it different? Is any of it useful?

DC: It's all useful, and it's all--the vast majority--is different. I'm thrilled with what's happened since then, and we still have a lot of work
to do, but we're not near done.

Interviewer: When we first got word--it was on Friday when we first got word that there was new information. Some of the things struck me as unusual; you invited the public to this, you weren't taking questions at that point, to wait those a little bit later. And in that briefing, it seemed like you were speaking directly to whoever did this, with the sense that this person might even be in the room. Do you think that person was in the room?

DC: I think if he wasn't in the room, he was close by, but I'm 100% convinced he was watching.

Interviewer: Why?

DC: Because of all that has happened over these last thirty months--the information that we had received, the information that we knew--and I hope to one day be able to tell that story.

Interviewer: You said something during the briefing that struck me--you feel like the investigators may have talked to him. You think that at some point, or since then, one of your guys has gotten in front of this person and asked him questions, and if so, how, at that point, did it not lead to an arrest, and how could it be moving forward?

DC: Well, I think it's likely. I think it's likely. There's a lot of opinions out there, there's a lot of subjective opinions, there's a lot of analysis
being done, which we're trying to encourage folks to not do, those kinds of side-by-side analysis. I really believe, that over time, we're gonna have an idea that we were onto something early on. Now remember, this isn't a 43-minute TV show, we have to, we have to, we have to understand that's not just science, but it's also human intelligence, what people know.

DC: Somebody knows whose body that is. Somebody knows. You take the head off that person, and you'll know, you'll recognize the body, whether it be your dad, your brother, your uncle, your friend, your neighbor, your coworker. That's the piece we're waiting on. I believe that we'll get there. There is an extraordinary group of people up there that's doing this work, and I believe they're gonna come to a successful resolution.

Interviewer: You mentioned the body. In the release of video, and this is only two or three frames of video, but it shows the movement of the person. It's been asked, and I'm sure it's been asked of you as well, why not release that sooner? You knew right away you had a picture, but a picture's different than video. Why wait that long?

DC: Yeah, a picture is different than video, and a sketch is different than a photograph. So you are right, you are absolutely correct, we'll be
able one day to tell you what we know, and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know, versus what we think. We have to be very, very careful there. Remember, it's easy to give an opinion if you don't understand the factual basis for what we've done and why. I don't mean that in a critical sense. But, we have to protect the integrity of what we know. And, geez, we're gonna stay at it.

Interviewer: The sketch, and to be clear, and you did clarify this after, in case folks didn't hear it, you don't want them to look at both
sketches anymore. You only want them to look at the newly-release sketch, correct?


DC: That's correct, but remember, the sketch is not a photograph. It's something similar to a resemblance. And the likelihood of this being
something between the two (sketches), is probably pretty strong. But again, that's a subjective opinion, based on what I believe.

Interviewer: And, certainly, you've shown frustration at the killer, at the fact that it takes a long time sometimes to find this(?)
The families have gotta feel frustration as well. And, one question that occurs to me, if they are fielding rumor, that you've said you
don't like, that you could head some of that off by sharing some of the grim things that the families shouldn't have to share. Why is it
that we don't know how these girls died? Why is it that we don't know if they were sex****ly assa**ted?


DC: Because only the killer knows that. And so do we. That's why. And you're right--the frustration of the families is something I
can't even begin to fathom or understand. And, we've tried very, very hard to stay connected with them, throughout this thing, this process.
But remember, a lot of people are starved for information, particularly sensationalized events like this. We can't show our hand. We
just can't.

Interviewer: Will there be a point when things change? Because it's been two years; you've changed strategies now, you have to be
looking down the horizon, if you don't get the resolution you want, you may think it may be because people want to sensationalize things.
I've heard from people close to those families who say we're tired of answering FB posts about did this happen, did that happen.


DC: I can't begin to understand their frustration. But, we can stay connected with them. And, I can't say sensationalism in a negative sense at all. Because I'm thrilled about what you've done, what you've allowed us to do today. Because this is why we'll be successful. This is why we'll be successful. But, we can't turn this into a wide-open schematic of what we know and why. We just can't. But, I believe that one day, we'll be able to.

Interviewer: You've been involved in investigations that have lead to convictions, you've been involved in some frustrating cold cases. Do you think someone will go to trial for this case someday?

DC: Yes.

(General interview wrap-up)
BBM
DC: That's correct, but remember, the sketch is not a photograph. It's something similar to a resemblance. And the likelihood of this being
something between the two (sketches), is probably pretty strong. But again, that's a subjective opinion, based on what I believe.

Interesting....
 
Can they tell that at a certain moment, someone’s phone was close to Libby’s one?
If they know who the Perp is, if they get a warrant to look at their phone data, and especially if they have “find my phone” or something similar activated. So, yes, but it’s complicated. Lots of ducks to line up on that.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Yes, but:

Phones in cars traveling the roads: Pinging and moving on, pinging and moving on, pinging and moving on.

VS

Phone in car (or on the ground, or on a person not moving): Pinging and not moving, pinging and not moving, pinging and not moving.

You get the picture.

I had to google the details now because what made me think about what I posted in my post above was the case "Mirco" in Germany, a 10 year old boy who was killed in 2010. I can't find any links in English, but a witness saw a certain type of car near the crime scene. And then they looked through 240,000 cell phone data protocols and after 133 days found one phone that moved in the same way that they thought the perp would have moved with his car. And it fit with the car that the witness saw. And that's how they caught him.

I think I remembered that case now because there was a car involved as well that the police knew about.

Fall Mirco: Handy-Daten führten laut Chefermittler zum Mörder - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Panorama

(link in German)
 
The population of Delphi is only about 3000. So it would be unlikely it requires a high volume and close placement of cell towers as would, say a urban environment consisting of not only homes and businesses but high density multi family housing including highrise apartment buildings and condos concentrated in a much smaller area.

Early on these threads a poster here located cell tower coverage for Delphi and iirc it was served by only two towers. That would suggest at best, cell tower data would pinpoint cellphone locations to be within the town and immediate surrounding areas including the trail. At the time iirc this was also the possible explanation for Libby’s grandfather’s comment regarding her cellphone “pinging around town”.

Skibaboo's map shows 6

Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps
 
I went back to the media thread to look for something yesterday. (Didn't find it yet).

I read the first six pages, and interestingly LE stated that they had many people who lied to them in the beginning. Probably for reasons related to drugs, cheaters, warrants etc.

Maybe BG was one of them, and copped to a trivial lie for whatever reason and LE bought it and just moved on.

I imagine many of Delphi's secrets came to light in 2017. I wonder if the divorce rate went up? Lol moo.
 
this thread moves so fast i can't keep up (different time zone,i'm in UK)

its probably been discussed but two things bother me

1/ if he's a sc user and this is how he's found out their movements then surely he would take the phones with him? he would know a lot of info would be on there....also,was it just one girls phone found or both?

2/ are we absolutely certain this man is the killer? or is he a red herring? could it be he was a witness and nothing to do with it?

1) only Libby’s phone was found. Abby did not have a phone with her.

2) no one can be sure unless an arrest is made and there is a trial. If this person was a witness, you’d expect him to come forward as the witness, because nobody in his right mind would forget being parked in the vicinity of the crime, having heard on TV about the girls’ disappearance, and next day, killed. If he is an innocent witness, he should behave this way.
 
A judge would not issue a warrant to the cell tower owner(s) for the entirety of their user information. A particular person? Sure. Everyone? No.
The actual owner of the tower (the physical structure) wouldn’t necessarily have the info. The various carriers would. If LE asked a Judge to issue a warrant to them I’m pretty sure the judge would be ok with that in this case.

We may be talking about 2 totally different things. I was doing that earlier. I think I need either caffeine or sleep, not sure which.
 
Ok, they have swabbed him. I turned him in within two weeks of the murders but they didn't swab him until a year plus later. But if they asked him where he was on the Feb. 13th . date and he told them, would they follow up and check it out. Would they do that for every call that has been made to LE?
This is some very interesting research, thank you for the link, Miya.
I was wondering if Bundy’s brain had been donated to research, but according to this his ashes were scattered in the Cascades where several of his victims died... wow.
When killers die ‘we store their brains’
Apologies for getting sidetracked, I’d better get back OT before I get a TO.:oops:
BBM
DC: That's correct, but remember, the sketch is not a photograph. It's something similar to a resemblance. And the likelihood of this being
something between the two (sketches), is probably pretty strong. But again, that's a subjective opinion, based on what I believe.

Interesting....

MOO Carter personally believes two witnesses saw a single man.
MOO one saw him in old clothes maybe a distance, and saw him as older, one saw him dressed normally for a young man.
 
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