IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    I finally watched the Melvin YT walk through of DTH. Very helpful, but I think the creek was much higher the day of the crime than it was in her video. You can tell by the helicopter footage.
     
  2. tresir2012

    tresir2012 On Time Out

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    I'm pretty sure it is inaccessible to vehicles. Jethro posted the RL dog pics to show that it is difficult to access. That seems to show only a deer path/foot trail. MOO.

    ETA. I believe there is a locked gate at the SE corner of the cemetery into RL's land so the ambulance could have perhaps pulled into that field there.

    (Goes off to look at heli video of cemetery vehicles again).....
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  3. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's like what I see, too. Maybe they couldn't park any closer to the crime scene because of terrain and not wanting to disturb evidence?
     
  4. Julia966

    Julia966 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that. From the article:

    "The man in the first sketch, which was released in July 2017, is no longer considered a suspect."

    It's still confusing. On the one hand, they're saying the person responsible is "a combination of the two", but then they go on to say the guy is the first sketch is no longer considered a suspect, leading one to believe that they have tracked him down and cleared him. I'm not sure what to think. I guess we have to ride it out and, once he is caught, maybe they'll explain more about how it went down.
     
  5. Jethro4WS

    Jethro4WS Well-Known Member

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    There is no way to get any normal vehicle down to that area. An ATV, yes, but a vehicle, no.
     
  6. tresir2012

    tresir2012 On Time Out

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    Well you are pretty good because that is the first time anyone spotted it AFAIK.
     
  7. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Unless, of course, you hear someone say, “youz guys” - then you know they’re from South Philly!

    (Sorry - just a little humor that reflects the South Jersey vs Philly arguments.)
     
  8. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    That would depend on whether his phone was on. I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of GPS tracking, cell tower tracking/pinging, how many cell towers in that area and whatnot, but what I do know for a certainty is that you can wrap your phone in tin foil and you have effectively created a faraday cage and no signal goes out or in. Not sure this perp would know that. Try it. ;)
     
  9. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    To where that white thing is, or the crime scene? It all looks heavily wooded after the cemetery, doesn't it?
     
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  10. Jethro4WS

    Jethro4WS Well-Known Member

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    To give you (and others) a sense of the variability of Deer Creek in both volume of water and depth I have attached two graphs that cover the range of Feb 1, 2017 to December 31, 2017 so you can see what that looks like. Both the depth and volume can change relatively rapidly. As I mentioned either earlier on this thread or on the previous thread the depth gauge was 15 feet 9 inches at the peak in July of 2017. On the day the girls disappeared the water gauge showed a depth of 3.67 feet at 2:30pm. When we see the helicopter video which was around 3:00 to 3:30 pm on the 14th the depth was 3.22 feet.

    That said there is much variability in the depth of the creek due the the contours of the creek bottom. But since water always seeks its level you can know that at all places along the creek the water was 5.4 inches deeper at 2:30 pm on the 13th.

    Also, the higher the volume of water, the stronger the current.

    All data and graphs for this water gauge can be found at the link below. Simply change the date range and it will generate new graphs. This link should show graphs for flow and depth for the period of 2/13/17 through 2/14/17.

    USGS Current Conditions for USGS 03329700 DEER CREEK NEAR DELPHI, IN
     
  11. Jethro4WS

    Jethro4WS Well-Known Member

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    Where the white thing is, is exactly in the crime scene. They aren't in two separate places they are one and the same.
     
  12. Jethro4WS

    Jethro4WS Well-Known Member

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    The water gauge for Deer Creek where the data comes from is located here:

    Google Maps
     
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  13. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    I wonder where this gauge is in relation to the sandbar. (EDIT: Jethro already posted this.) It looks like 2-3 ft. is the default depth when not taking in rain and runoff. Maybe somebody (not using a phone) could look for a satellite map with a date that can be compared to a depth gauge chart so we can see how the sandbar looks around 3.5 ft?

    Not that it matters, since we know they crossed the creek...

    Sorry if this isn't clear. Typing on my phone is impossible.
     
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  14. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    Way closer to the cemetery than I thought!
     
  15. Jethro4WS

    Jethro4WS Well-Known Member

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    The helicopter video is a pretty good source reference for observing the creek. If you watched the whole video you should see that there is no sandbar above water anywhere as water is flowing over all of them. In the sequence in the video where the one firefighter is seen walking across one where the water is shallow you just have to imagine in your head the water being 5.4 inches higher on his legs. This will be the sequence where there are half a dozen firefighters and a FBI agent walking arm in arm down the creek where the water is much deeper, at least chest high on some of them. The firefighter seen on the sandbar is behind them in the background. Can't recall the time in the video for that sequence off the top of my head.
     
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  16. MJPeony

    MJPeony SF Bay Area

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    Yeah, not sure. I think all LE can do is look for pings of an identified phone. So since no one knows this guy is, they have nothing to trace.

    However maybe that’s been part of confirming alibis (or not confining)- perhaps someone of interest in the beginning (young sketch) who LE originally thought wasn’t there bc their cell didn’t ping there is now being looked at again bc LE has discovered that person was NOT with their own cell phone. So there is no way to verify their whereabouts now. If that’s the case then LE would have to have a specific suspect in mind currently. Which I’m not convinced is the case.

    Anyway, that gets a bit too technical for my own brain so I’m not intending to try get us all too deep into the woods on that!
     
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  17. MJPeony

    MJPeony SF Bay Area

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    Yes, I’ve considered that and it’s certainly possible. But the new sketch implies someone young enough that I have a really hard time comprehending that he would not be aware of cloud data. But as good a theory as any I’ve come up with!

    So if they weren’t aware of cloud data then I think that actually helps narrow the pool of suspects- what types of people would be young and yet not aware of cloud data? Not sure I have an answer to that but I’d start with being less suspicious of perhaps college guys, people who work in tech jobs, tv personalities, teachers...etc. I’m assuming this is all part of the FBI profile they’ve come up with and that LE has considered that bent.
     
  18. tresir2012

    tresir2012 On Time Out

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    Hey great sleuth minds think alike!!!
     
  19. Ibiz

    Ibiz Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

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    Did they ever discover what the voice on the cell phone was saying?
     
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  20. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    Do you happen to have a map with the spot pin pointed? I can kind of visualize it, but not quite.

    I really appreciate the helicopter photos BTW.
     
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