IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. TL4S

    TL4S Unverified Clown

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    I guess all we can truly ascertain is that they were found not far from the creek's northern edge, somewhere on RL's property between the cemetery and 575 W. No matter the place, he made them cross the creek, which the more I look at the map, the more makes sense because that's the only direction he could really have gone to get out of view.

    If he had bad intentions when he set foot on the trail that day, I'd still lay my bets on him parking at the cemetery. JMO
     
  2. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    It’s really not that far from the cemetery road to the edge of the water. It’s about .15 miles 241 feet or about a little over 1/2 a lap on a track. That is just a straight line though. I made a path from the end of the bridge going partway on the service road and across the creek at the sand bar to the estimated location of the scene and it was pretty much the same distance.
     
  3. moonlessnight

    moonlessnight Well-Known Member

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    I personally think the "new strategy" is looking directly at the person who gave them the first sketch, or at least one of the people who corroborated the info that led to the first sketch. The perp would never believe LE changed their strategy bc he is (one of) the one(s) who shone the light on the first sketch, and thought he had power over the investigation, directing attn away from himself. MOO.

    "What, precisely is the 'new strategy' they are using...? There's this sketch....but what else?
    They also say they 'know' it's about power for him....why? & why would they say he would believe they would 'never' use a new strategy...?"

     
  4. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I’m just trying to think of things learned by “the news” that would be false.

    BBM

    “[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”
    Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  5. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    Some app data is stored in a cloud. For ex: SC memories are stored in I guess you’d call it the SC cloud and if you have your account set to auto save snaps to memories they’d be saved in that cloud. It’s not the iCloud.
     
  6. TL4S

    TL4S Unverified Clown

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    And this might be annoyingly nitpicky of me, but where the creek dips south, just southeast of the cemetery, the northern creek bank (well over 50 feet in) does not appear to belong to RL, which if the girls were literally found on his property, puts them either east or west of that dip, barely. It's hard to explain, but I don't know if Beacon photo snips are allowed through TOS.

    Considering the statement about the girls being killed within minutes of the video (IIRC), I don't think BG walked them to the far east bank. Plus, once you get on RL's eastern creek access, the bank just doesn't look the same as in the crime scene photos (much more open, wider, sandy, and angled southeast). That's why I suspect (and could be WAY WRONG) they were near the creek directly south of the cemetery, which is about 600 ft from the cemetery.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  7. TL4S

    TL4S Unverified Clown

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    Do we know for a fact if they were found on RL's property? He has some 35+ acres, of course only a fraction of those are creek access. It's hard to separate fact from fiction!
     
  8. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Strategy and new direction are interchangeable IMO.

    Why would Carter say the suspect would believe they’d never use a new strategy? Good question and I’d say it’s because LE seemed very confident the first sketch was the prime suspect. Now that he’s not, I think some of the general public would even agree they didn’t believe LE would ever change their strategy either. That might come from the tendency to believe LE has only ever had their eyes on a person who looked similar right from the very beginning. For the murderer, thinking LE was seeking the wrong guy and they weren’t on to him would undoubtedly give him a feeling of power IMO.
     
  9. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    So the area where the flashes are isn’t the crime scene?
     
  10. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    Dbm
     
  11. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I’m unable to find any other proof the bodies were found on RL’s property except his own interview with IE, pointing toward yellow police tape at the bottom of his property. In fact, I don’t recall LE ever mentioning one word connected to “on the other side of the river” or “crossing the river” or asking anyone for sightings of “a man who might have wet pant legs”. Maybe the girls were found somewhere along the river but on the same side as the bridge???
     
    DancingMuse, somequestions and TL4S like this.
  12. R.U.Kidding!

    R.U.Kidding! Well-Known Member

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    Just listened to the PC, and read thru comments posted recently. In MOO from the beginning of this case I could not believe this was random....Someone just wandering in the woods that day was prepared to murder young girls, and just happened to luck out and find them.

    I truly believe this guy knew these two girls and knew they were going there that day. That is why they took his photo walking up to them. Why else would they take a photo of some random person. There was no struggle when he told them to go down the hill, they believed he was just asking them to go that way perhaps to show them something.
    This has always made me shutter to think they probably trusted this monster.
    The PC seemed to elude to the fact that they believe they already interviewed him and he is part of the community and may have even been at the PC. They also said he would "not have believed they would have gone in another direction" which to me means LE thinks it is someone the girls knew--which they had not believed before.
    Just my thoughts and I hope they get this guy very soon..he thinks he is so smart...we will see about that!
     
  13. Nerissa

    Nerissa Well-Known Member

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    sometimes I think the idea of it all being about 'power' to the perp plays into whatever was done to Abby/Libby & the state they were left in...plus: cannot help but think the perp has perhaps been in touch with LE - in a taunting manner
    It interesting to say it's about 'power' - ie, is LE saying that's the motive (which sounds pretty serial killer to me) ? - the motive to kill them was power, to get away with it....not sexual necessarily or any other average motive but 'power'
    Hmmm
    JMO
     
  14. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I don’t recall LE ever identifying the location where the bodies were discovered. But the actual crime scene would consist of the entire area from when the girls were first approached (LE’s reference to “criminal activity”) to where they were later found.

    “Investigators said the audio came from a video recording on Libby’s cell phone of a man who was apparently on or near the Monon High Bridge on the day the girls went missing and was taken during "criminal activity."....”
    One Year Later: Why the Delphi case isn't cold
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  15. Nerissa

    Nerissa Well-Known Member

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    Thanks - that's where my brain is headed, too......
    edit to add that given this concept of 'power' ties into idea of someone connected to Libby's forensic classes.....someone playing games, using what's been learned in class to do this terrible crime....JMO
    Hard for me to get outta my mind she was taking classes like this & then this is what happens. Bizarre. Or maybe not a coincidence...?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  16. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    By crime scene I meant where they were found. The flashes seem to jive with the location at the end of the Melvin video which looks like where they were found.

    I don’t want to know what the scene looked like and have no desire to know what exactly happened to them at the scene. LE needs to know - I do not.

    I just want to settle whether they crossed the creek in my mind and I haven’t been able to do that. I was hoping if I could tell where things ended that would help. It did not.
     
  17. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    I see what you are saying and that’s actually what I was wondering about. My measurement was from the right corner of the creek to where Jethro guesstimated the crime scene tape was.
     
  18. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    Where did the killer park his vehicle?

    If he parked at the Freedom Bridge area over the Hoosier Highway wouldn't he have been seen by the "flannel shirt guy" when he walked back to his vehicle?

    If he parked at the area where Kelsi German dropped off Abby and Libby, wouldn't police have questioned Kelsi about any other vehicles that may have been parked in the parking lot that day?

    If he parked at the cemetery, wouldn't his pants be wet from first crossing the creek to get to the Monon High Bridge? The picture on Liberty German's phone looks like the person is wearing dry blue jeans. I guess there is the possibility the killer could have parked at the cemetery, then walked down to the entrance where Abby and Libby were dropped to gain entrance to the trails.

    So where the killer parked while he committed the crime is a very good question.
     
  19. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    LE’s earliest announcement -
    “Two bodies have been found on the edge of Deer Creek near Delphi, and authorities said foul play is suspected.

    During a press conference Tuesday afternoon, Sgt. Kim Riley announced two bodies were found a mile east of Delphi on the edge of Deer Creek around 12:15 p.m. Tuesday.”
    Two bodies found outside Delphi; foul play suspected
     
  20. ZoriahNZ

    ZoriahNZ Well-Known Member

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    Somequestions: To your first question - not if he walked north from the crime scene (after the crime was committed), went through the cemetery, then west along the W 300 N road to the old CPS building. That way he would be avoiding any part of the trails which the Flannel Guy, Derrick German and other potential witnesses or searchers were walking. To me, that seems the most logical exit the BG could make, assuming he did park his car at the old CPS building like LE was hinting at and assuming he wanted to reduce the chance of encountering other people on the way back to his car.
     
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