GENERIC HEADER NEWS MISSING PERSONS

Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. Jax49

    Jax49 Florida Native

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    Yes, Holeman. My understanding, he believes they crossed the creek before being killed. I'm lost as to what is "wrong". Still scratching my head over that one. moo

    For anyone interested, here's the interview. Start about the 10:00 mark.

    Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence
     
  2. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    Welcome to WS. No worries, everyone's opinions are encouraged and it is a discussion forum. LE originally stated he was wearing a hoodie and a fanny pack IIRC.
     
  3. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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  4. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    This is what was said in July '17 about what BG was wearing on his head when the OBG sketch was released. (From the media thread)


    A. As you can see, the original picture below it appears that he's got a hat on and it's got the flaps down
    and kind of down over the face. We want to make sure you focus on the picture. We want to make sure the face is what you are looking at and not worry about the hat even though the hat does is not quite the same as in the picture. We want the facial features, is what we want you to look at.
     
  5. ZZbball22

    ZZbball22 If we ignore the facts, we are blind. Goodbye WS

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    Is this based on eyewitness accounts? Or was it gleaned from the video?

    I can buy the fact he was wearing a hoodie or reported to be. If it was from the video, how can they be sure? Unless there are other videos they have. I hate to be that guy but there is always the possibility of LE being incorrect. Although I give them credit and benefit of doubt, it is a possibility. Also it doesn't necessarily mean he has his hood on. I should have pointed out in my original post that I believe I can see a hood or perhaps scarf behind his head as if it was down.

    Imo you can see his ear on the left side of his head in the video, which would possibly indicate that his head was uncovered and what we are seeing is what I pointed out in that screenshot.

    I can definately see that "brown" cloth as a fanny pack.
     
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  6. ZZbball22

    ZZbball22 If we ignore the facts, we are blind. Goodbye WS

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    All I'm presenting is an alternate analysis from the video based on what I see. And try to point to and communicate it to the best of my ability. The reason being that if his head is uncovered, then we have hair color, style and possibly Male pattern baldness. Not to mention possible facial hair. I understand LE has put a lot of effort into this case, I'm just basing these observations on what I see in the video. It would be a shame if they had some critical detail wrong or missed a small piece of evidence in that clip and we were looking for a ghost. I'm not saying I have all the answers just another set of eyes.
     
  7. FinePrint

    FinePrint Well-Known Member

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    "Why park at the CPS lot (in relation to "get around quickly")? The CPS Building is easily accessible to the Hoosier Heartland Highway (Route 25) - 0.7 miles (2 minutes)."

    Here is the now torn down CPS building (where the excavator is seen). Here you can see that there is only a small ditch between that parking lot and the Hoosier Heartland HWY. He could have easily and immediately gotten onto the HWY. Didn't even need to take Rt 25 to access the HWY.
    upload_2019-6-24_6-7-18.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  8. FinePrint

    FinePrint Well-Known Member

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    Replying to my post to show a picture of the CPS building and Hoosier HWY before building was taken down, very easy access to the HWY through the grass:
    upload_2019-6-24_6-18-6.png
     
  9. TL4S

    TL4S Dumbified Clown

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    Maybe after their discussion at the end of the bridge about going ahead on the trail and there being nowhere to go, they did decided to go back to the road or the trail through the woods. If BG had said or done something to make them uncomfortable enough that they didn't want to go back across the bridge, they had to go a different route, and any route back involves crossing the creek.

    So instead of crossing by force, or fleeing, they did it on purpose to get back. BG could have either followed them, or even recrossed the bridge himself and they met up in the woods.

    The "down the hill" doesn't have to be the hill at the end of the bridge. It could be the hill behind the cemetery or by the trail.

    Just trying to think of a reason why the videos aren't accurate, but still having the girls cross the creek.
     
  10. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    They said he is wearing a hoodie and a fanny pack but did not say if hoodie was up or down. Later (what I posted a couple of posts back from the media thread) they talked about the hat with flaps. LE are saying this but are not saying whether it is from witnesses or their interpretation of the video. It is probably a mixture of the two where they are getting the info. Obviously this has been gone over in the image thread a lot also. Now we only have the NBG sketch with only hair on his head. LE did say disregard the hat so I think he may have only had it on for a disguise. Or he was cold. IMO
     
  11. Jethro4WS

    Jethro4WS Well-Known Member

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    BBM. What I wonder in such a scenario is why would the consideration be that the girls would want to get back across the creek? Abby knew that her house was just down the road that goes right under the bridge - about 3/4 of a mile. Why wouldn't the consideration be to head to Abby's house?
     
  12. TL4S

    TL4S Dumbified Clown

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    I know, that's my question with it, too. Do we know if anyone was home?

    I'd also wonder why they didn't call someone. I guess in my mind, in this scenario, I picture them feeling silly for being scared, but also just wanting to get to their ride home.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  13. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    Did they say within minutes of the video or minutes of the recording? I’m going to go back and check that.
     
  14. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    Not sure - they probably said within minutes of the recording which could mean either video or audio. Will assume they mean video because I have always believed the killing was caught on audio and that is what shocked LE so much in this case. MOO
     
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  15. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    They may well have tried to, we don't know, he may have caught them under the bridge on that road trying that very thing. I don't think they would have chosen to go the other way towards the creek voluntarily. Whichever way they went was woodland AFAICS.
     
  16. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Well-Known Member

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    Let today be the day.

    Please bear with me, a couple of thoughts. TIA.

    To be clear, Abby and Libby are victims, not victim blaming in any way shape or form:

    1. Do you think the girls would have found another way to get to the trail that day if KG hadn't offered the ride? i.e. Could they have walked or taken the bus?

    2. It has been said by family that the girls didn't want to wear coats or sweatshirts (paraphrasing) to the trail that day, but family insisted, so Abby borrowed one to wear. It appears that Libby was wearing a jacket in the BG video she takes (there is a brief glimpse of it in one of the frames)

    I am wondering if the girls did plan to meet someone at the park? Perhaps they had been "catfished" online by someone who said they were younger than they really are, and BG set up the whole thing from start to "finish".

    The girls seeming persistence in going to the trail that day, for really what was supposed to be a not very long time, iirc dropped off around 1:30 and picked up less than two hours later by Libby's Dad, makes me wonder if they hadn't planned to meet someone on the trail, rather than hiking or walking a larger part of the trail system, hope that makes sense?

    When I was younger, even in my 20's, but especially in my teens, I remember not wanting to put a coat or jacket on, as to "not ruin my outfit" or my "look" for the occasion or event.

    Again, not victim blaming in any way! These girls were completely victimized by this monster.

    Thoughts?
     
  17. flashy09

    flashy09 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to interrupt the discussion with some random thoughts!

    I mentioned in another posting how basically none of my friends know about this case even though I am not too far from Indiana.

    The new sketch shows someone quite young, 18-30ish. That age range really does not watch much television or read newspapers. However, I know lots of people that watched Ted Bundy and Making a Murderer on Netflix. I think a Netflix documentary on this case would be really helpful in reaching a large, pertinent audience! That and a huge SM push where the video and audio is shared publicly rather than the closed groups of people already interested.

    Social media is truly where many young people get their news and it's very common to only have Netflix and not cable, especially in college. This case needs to reach more people - it is mind boggling that with audio, video and such an awful shocking crime this case has not been solved!

    I think focusing on his contemporaries is important with the new age range. His family may not turn him in due to denial or loyalty. Maybe he doesn't have much family and what he does have are drug addicts that pay no attention to the real world. Parents could be dead, etc. But if he is a young man, he would have gone to school recently, probably needs to work so has coworkers, rents a house possibly with roommates. Schoolmates, roommates, co workers - this is the younger group that needs to be reached and they are not watching HLN at 1pm or GMA at 8am. They are on SM and Netflix.

    Just my morning thoughts lol.
     
  18. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    I certainly think catfish or meeting someone was a possibility. Also, someone who knew of the plans told someone else, who told someone else.....etc.

    Having said that, I also believe it could be random- someone from one of the groups in the park that day went off on their own and saw an opportunity, or a completely lone perp wandering around knowing young kids were off school and would be there.

    Also, the families seem to be large and extended, so someone on the very periphery could also have got to know perhaps through just word of mouth.

    I think this is part of the problem that LE have. They were recently asked if all family members had been cleared and did not answer in the complete positive IIRC.
    MOO
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  19. allboys

    allboys Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting this pic. I had asked a while back if this would be possible, but I couldn’t quite make out how big/small the ditch was from the pic I had available.

    I had also speculated that if he had pulled directly onto the highway through the grass, this would be worthy of someone “feeling that something should be reported.”

    I imagine if BG went this route, the positive for him would be avoiding possible cameras by avoiding taking the longer way to Hoosier HWY. The negative would be drawing attention to himself driving through the grass directly onto the Hoosier HWY. MOO
     
  20. ZoriahNZ

    ZoriahNZ Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for re-posting this. I hadn't watched the full 27 min interview at the bottom. Sgt. Holeman's interview was very informative. Bearing in mind that it was done in Aug 2017 and that the sketch behind him is now sort of discarded, it's interesting to revisit some of the facts that LE were willing to speak about at that time.

    Sgt. Holeman does speak about the girls crossing the creek, which to me indicates that LE believe they did physically cross it on their own steam before they ended up at the crime scene.
     
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