Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. MeadowMuffin

    MeadowMuffin Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely how I see it also. Random. Wrong place and wrong time.
     
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  2. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    TBH I’m not sure if there are any more billboards. There aren’t any in my area, but I’m pretty far away. I’d imagine they did use some to push out the new sketch. I know I’ve seen google pics with the time and the old sketch and a whole bunch without.
     
  3. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    This is how I’ve been leaning. The only thing I’d change is I think he might be on the younger end of the age range. This easily explains the following:

    Why he’s at the bridge in the middle of the day - he’s out of school too.

    His knowledge of the area currently not from visiting it as a kid - He goes there to hang out and knows what the terrain is currently like.

    His knowledge of where the girls were - SC is HUGELY popular with younger people. He didn’t have to say anything to them or converse. He’d know from the pic.

    The lack of sound during the initial encounter - the girls may have known him from SC, sporting events, siblings, just seeing him around. I’m not saying they were BFFs. They may not have even really liked him or did at one point and had a falling out, but I’d think they wouldn’t be as alarmed at a teen approaching them as they would if it was a middle aged creeper stranger following them.

    Navigating the terrain would be a lot easier for a younger person (even if they were overweight) than it would be for a middle aged overweight person.

    The hiding in plain sight comment - It’s a teen hang out. It wouldn’t be unusual to see a local teen there and if other teens saw him he wouldn’t really stand out. He could’ve told LE he was there earlier in the day and left before the girls got there. Plus there were a lot of kids there that day per KG.

    The “you never thought we’d change direction” comment - The first sketch released was a middle aged man not a kid. If it is a teen he probably did think he got away with it after seeing that sketch. I doubt everyone’s first thought was “a local teen had to have done this”. They were thinking an adult stranger. Actually LE probably was thinking a younger person initially because there were a lot of younger people there.

    Just some thoughts I’ve been having. Sorry for all of the words and hijacking your post. Been thinking about this for a long time and it just all came out.

    Edit: the hiding in plain sight bullet could be combined with the change in direction comment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  4. FinePrint

    FinePrint Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t seen any, was just on I -65 in the area all the way down to Indy and nothing.
     
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  5. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    Respectfully snipped for focus.
    IMO, teens would be able to recite to you in great detail who was there, what they were wearing, who they were talking to, what their hairstyle was, etc. This is a natural part of who teenagers are.

    Amateur opinion and speculation
     
  6. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    Not my teen - most oblivious human currently on the planet. She’d definitely be able to tell you the things you mentioned, but ask what time someone left, or even what time she left, and you’d get crickets.

    Not Delphi teen shaming, but if they weren’t totally sober they might not notice either.

    Edit: what I meant by not standing out is it wouldn’t be weird to see another teen there. They may not be cognizant of the times people arrived and left. They would know they were there though.
     
  7. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    My take on recent events in the case is there should have been a better effort early on to get the video of BG out, I don't understand why there's this selective whatever on the part of LE to pick and choose when to release such evidence. This case is special, in a way, because we have both video and audio of BG. Also, the nature of the crimes, not just one, but two juveniles murdered at the same time, and they were friends. I just find it strange there was a lack of a sense of urgency to get more key info out early on.

    They said it's "complicated". My take on that is they further complicated the case by not releasing the video for 2+ years.

    There are many cases where LE released video evidence from CCTV and similar cameras, as soon as evidence was discovered on them. Thousands of cases. Why wait over two years to release the video? The April 22nd PC was half of a nothingburger, in my book. A lot has happened in that area since February, 2017. The perp or perps could be running loose, or incarcerated.

    Jumping off of that, I don't believe LE have workable DNA evidence. How many cases have been resolved since the Parabon tech and forensic genealogy stuff really got rolling, in recent years? It's becoming an avalanch of sorts, and yet nothing about DNA in the Delphi case being used to solve it?

    In my eyes, BG and whoever he may have conspired with, if it comes down to that, feel no remorse, and think they are in total control of the situation. My opinion is people in that surrounding area know about who did it, but are afraid to come forward, and may have their own skeletons they're afraid of becoming public.

    I believe there's a possibility some people in the surrounding area have been assaulted, or even murdered, in order to keep information about the perps and their 'activities' hush-hush. It just 'fits'. for me, and I agree with LE that the perp or perps are "hiding in plain sight". They've been in the surrounding area the whole time, and they don't think they'll be caught, at least not any time soon. They will stop at nothing to stay free, including mayhem and even meting out death. LE have plenty of resources on their end to find information they're looking for, but even that is limited in a way in our digital age. They need someone to come forward with the one tip that would blow the whole case wide-open.

    The sad part is a lot of people might have to go down with the ship, I just have this gut feeling the case goes beyond BG, and have had a strong feeling about it since January.

    MOO is this was a targeted attack, look at all of the other retaliation crimes, some brutal where people around there are disabled for life, and the rest deadly, in the last several years. It's all gang and drug-related.

    JMO

    -FD
     
  8. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    All I can add is WOW!! I wish I'd said it like that!! :cool:
     
  9. Krwiley60

    Krwiley60 Well-Known Member

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  10. PaulaDC

    PaulaDC Well-Known Member

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  11. No it's not

    No it's not that simple

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    Some things that keep bugging me..Why do we only see the 2 pictures Libby had uploaded to snapchat? Is that all she took prior to the attack?

    Did Libby take more pictures, but did not upload more? Then why not publish her pictures? Or did she not take more photographs despite being an avid photographer according to her family? If not, why not? They just did not take any pictures prior to getting on the High Bridge for no reason?
    Or were Abby and Libby already followed by BG prior to getting on the bridge and did that distract them in any way, just not enough to get alarmed? Did BG possibly planned to attack them earlier, but had to abort his plans? Does LE really have the girls' phone..? I know they claimed they did...but..really?

    Equally, I cannot understand, why BG would park his vehicle at the now not anymore existent CPS building, if that was indeed his vehicle. If he had planned anything nefarious, he could not have planned not being seen getting back to his vehicle. That would have been an additional unnecessary risk.

    If the killer had truly planned to wait for anyone to enter the High Bridge, how could he have calculated, when he would catch up with his victim(s) plus not being seen or heard? If Abby and Libby had decided to walk back from the S to the N end of the bridge, would BG have risked an encounter over high grounds? And - if we hypothetically assumed he personally knew the victims, would he not have known, that the girls could have ran off towards Abby's home off the S end of the bridge? I therefore do not think any longer, that the murderer personally knew his victims. Any connection may be more superficial - if at all.

    I can see a killer planning an attack in the park for whatever reason. It may not have been his intention at all to enter the High Bridge. Perhaps he got frustrated with Abby and Libby; perhaps he just intended to flash them and he realized they filmed him and he went overboard. Perhaps he staged a "serial style killing"..

    Whatever happened In Delphi, I hope they will get the murderer soon. Very, very soon.

    ALL IMO

    -Nin
     
  12. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    She seemed heartbroken to me. Grieving is a very personal thing that people have to learn to live with after something this tragic. I make no judgements on anyone else's grief and how they deal with it. We just don't know unless it's happened to us. I've known people that the only way they made it through another day was to smile and remember the good. Others who have completely shut off from life and everything in it. You just never know.
     
  13. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    Can't the LE get the records from the SnapChat people to confirm that time? Everything leaves a digital print, maybe not on the user's side but on the provider's end.
     
  14. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    Flyers – Abby and Libby.org
    There as well aren't any new flyers with NBG pictured.
     
  15. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Yeah, I'm not sold on the idea of this being pre-planned. If I had to fall on one side or the other, I'd lean towards this being an impulse and them being wrong time/wrong place. If he used any weapons then I think it's something he probably carried with him at all times anyway, like a knife.
     
  16. ZoriahNZ

    ZoriahNZ Well-Known Member

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    <modsnipped>

    Next part snipped by me:

    I don't think it's particularly relevant how many pictures Libby took. We only have the 2 SC ones because she uploaded them to her acct and they were made public/leaked. There's nothing on them which can tell us about the murderer aside from the idea that both sides of the bridge appeared to be deserted at that time. If LE found pictures on her phone which were pertinent to the case, and showed clues as to the identity of the murderer, I think it would have been mentioned by now. Not that they'd be obligated to release them to the public, anyway.

    LE really do have the girl's phone. Sgt. Holeman even confirms it on that half hour interview linked recently upthread. I'm not sure why this is still a sticking point.

    The CPS building parking lot is apparently a run off parking space for the trail, wouldn't that be reason enough? Perhaps less noticeable than a car right at the drop off point, or cemetery, but still plausibly used for trail-goers. There's even a concrete path leading from there directly to the Freedom Bridge and to the western start of the Monon trail. If you go look on Google Earth and check the historical snapshots, you can see it wasn't there before the Freedom bridge was constructed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2019
  17. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    The reason everything is a sticking point and being questioned is because of LE's handling of this. Holeman is the one who hailed the OBG almost as a masterpiece when it came out, now it's nothing. Also, for more than 2 years the public have asked for the video and more audio if possible and all LE said was oh no protecting integrity etc etc. Then they issue one more word "Guys" and the video - then say he is local or has a connection to Delphi, without saying why they suddenly change tack on this. So what has changed? Has the last two years been wasting time chasing tips from that old sketch? Now they bring out a sketch they had all along? If people are now doubting everything they have said, then it is completely justified IMO. I feel so upset for the families - it must be devastating.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2019
  18. Thelastleg

    Thelastleg Active Member

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    Just when I think I have got the lay out of the route the girls took in my head, I read something else and get confused again. I thought that Abby and Libby made their way from the drop off point and headed to the bridge from the South West side. They then crossed the bridge to North East end and that is where BG forced them down the hill. From there they somehow got across the creek and ended up in woods near the cemetery. Could someone put me straight please?
     
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  19. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Yeah, I just assumed that those pictures haven't been shared with us because they're not relevant in identifying BG. Perhaps the families want to keep those images private and not share them with the whole world to have them analyzed and picked to death. The girls' murders with the theories and rumors and facts have become such a hot topic of conversation that I could see wanting to save those last few images, images not helpful in identifying their killer, to myself. Something private and special just for close family and friends.

    And yes, the CPS lot was more or less a parking runoff. The park has never had much in the way of an actual parking lot. Get more than a few cars there and you almost have to park at that old building. There really isn't anyplace where BG could've parked that wouldn't have been noticeable unless he'd parked in the private drive in one of those nearby houses-but even then the landowners would've noticed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2019
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  20. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    Yes they can and I’m sure they did. The time hasn’t been confirmed publicly by LE though.
     
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