Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    This reminds me that TB in the Catholic Supply case had a young picture of himself on one of his SM platforms. He had hair in the pic and was about 30 years younger.
     
  2. TL4S

    TL4S Unverified Clown

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    I get where you're coming from, trying to find a way to get the girls from the end of the bridge to their ultimate location without crossing the creek. I'm not sure about it, though.

    I looked on the map and the drive time from the road south of the bridge and around to the cemetery (via either 1 of the 2 available routes) is about 13 minutes. 10 if you're speeding. IMO, he would not risk being seen with the two girls in his vehicle, hope to find a parking spot where he can get them out and under control without anyone observing, and walk them to a spot less than 600 ft away from the location he originally abducted them from, within sight of the bridge, and in earshot of homes and trail users. That's a big undertaking that, IMO, carries too many complexities.

    If he'd had them in a vehicle, they would likely have been found in a more isolated area much farther away. JMO
     
  3. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    In the trunk or went willingly if he was a coach or LE or ?

    Holman is saying it is similar to Iowa. We know the Iowa girls were abducted in a vehicle because of the distance. That has to be one of few similarities because there was no cause of death in that case because of their decomposition. MOO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  4. TL4S

    TL4S Unverified Clown

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    Even if that were the case, once in the vehicle, he could have brought them anywhere. Why drive back around to the cemetery and kill them in a relatively public place so close to where he'd abducted them?

    The similarities we know of with Iowa are two young girls killed and left on the woods. I'd be curious what LE knows.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  5. Spy Versus Spy

    Spy Versus Spy Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they the Girls crossed the Creek elsewhere, not where we logically assume( across from the body location)?

    This would explain both the LEO comment that they did infact cross the Creek, but also why no crime scene tape was seen on the either bank close to the body location?

    Are there any other viable cross points in any narrative or scenarios?

    Speculation and moo
     
  6. ZoriahNZ

    ZoriahNZ Well-Known Member

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    The road by the south end of the bridge is a private drive. One way goes to a house very shortly, a dead end. The other does eventually get to a public road (N 625 W) but it's actually gated along the way. Videographers have documented this, going to the area and driving around (they found the gate locked). So unless you know the people who own the property on that side, I don't see how you'd get easy access along the private drive that way.

    Bonnie Rame posted up a video on YT walking along the bridge to the SE end on April 5 2017. You can see the police CS tape cordoning off an area there, pretty much were the bridge ends. Title of the vid is Monon High Bridge in Delphi Indiana
     
  7. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been considering that they walked back across the bridge to a vehicle in the drop off area. I wasn’t thinking abduction though - more voluntary. He could’ve parked at the CPS building because he was there earlier in the day, driven down to the drop off area when he saw the SC post and gone from there. This could’ve been a situation that started out somewhat innocent and ended in murder. It’s a bit convoluted and I’m not totally sold on it.
     
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  8. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    Maybe he had to be at work in a short time or to get his alibi sorted. LE thinks he may work in Delphi. Also, if local and he did not join the search that could look even more suspicious. MOO.
     
  9. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    I don't believe it was locked before the murders but MOO.

    Also the drop off parking area opposite Mears was permanently closed after the murders as well.
     
  10. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    Yes, by revealing the killer is local, LE significantly narrowed the suspect pool! I have a feeling though that they have some DNA issues. Perhaps DNA found is from someone whose DNA can easily be explained away, for instance someone who frequented the property for other legitimate reasons? Or, they don’t. Just a thought. I do believe this is a very “complicated” case and while they may be on the right track they desperately need help from someone. Problem is, that someone may come from the same depraved world. MOO
     
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  11. TL4S

    TL4S Unverified Clown

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    IMO, "local" could mean anywhere in a 30 mile radius from Delphi. I just don't think every single local person helped in the search, either, plus it was a weekday, so people were working. JMO
     
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  12. MingyMoo

    MingyMoo Well-Known Member

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    How about this for a Websleuth theory. Considered because of something that has happened to me today. Its with reference to the mobile phone and the voice recording.

    Today my husband called me. From his mobile to our land line. We finished our call and he appeared to call again. I picked up all I got was the sounds of my husband walking.

    I know my Husband keeps his mobile phone in his jeans/trouser pocket. It is the 2nd time this week it has happened to me. Two different people

    Is it just possible BG took the phone from Libby, put it in his pocket and it automatically re-dialled last number called or some other random number in Libby’s contact details.

    So the theory is BG snatched the phone

    He snatched the phone because he realised he was being photographed or recorded

    They were killed because BG wasn’t meant to be where he was and was now identifiable by Libby and Abby

    I am hoping beyond hope their murders were not sexually orientated and to some extent believe they were in the wrong place at the wrong time seen by and saw the wrong person.

    BG didn’t realise Libby's Mobile automatically redialed someone as he put it in his pocket. The someone didn’t pick the phone up or it went straight to voice mail and recorded for as long as it could.

    I listened to my husband for over 5 mins trying to shout down the phone you are still connected but that was his mobile to our landline he didn’t hear me ultimately I disconnected.

    My understanding is you can only leave a voice mail on a mobile voice messaging service for 3 minutes before it cuts off. Although I did hear more than 5 mins of my colleague who had accidentally put his mobile phone in his pocket and called my mobile and left a message inadvertently . And that was last Saturday. I am sure he would be shocked and horrified

    In turn what that means is there is no lock on the phone. Strange that because without the PIN I can’t call anyone but the emergency services.

    As I say just throwing it out there based on recent personal events and in my Own Humble Opinion. I still think maybe naively the girls were quite simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and spotted something/someone who was out of place doing something wrong or someone they recognised that was out of place.

    MingyMoo
     
  13. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    The kids had a day off from school. I was thinking about this. Have you ever been driving around your town and you see kids out and about and you what the heck, why aren't these kids in school? It's happened to me, when mine were already long out of school. Then you'll ask, say something to the next person you encounter and someone will say to you yeah they have a day off today because...whatever the reason. It's possible this could be how BG wound up on the trails that day. Just a thought, wouldn't it be great if someone remembered being asked that by "him". Maybe he has a job that he has to travel on the roads during the work day?

    Or the exact opposite can be true, he had that info of the kids being off because he still has a connection with school age kids?

    I think "Guys" sounds like someone who is used to addressing mixed gender groups in some capacity. That he didn't say "Girls" could mean, stressing the "could", that either it's not in his mental comfort zone to address females in the feminine (underlying misogynistic) or he's just used to addressing mixed groups with the much used masculine "Guys". Or it's just the way he talks all the time, gender nuetral, just because.

    Just a couple things you made me think about with your post.
     
  14. BNA

    BNA Well-Known Member

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    I walk quite a bit, mostly in the woods, but also around my small town.

    If/when I cross paths with a group of girls of any age, I will give them a nod and say: "Ladies." For the older girls, I consider it a way to show respect, and the younger kids get a kick out of being called ladies. I imagine.

    Maybe that's just mostly me. I have seen that from others, tho.

    Anyway, maybe that is the reason LE wants us to think about "Guys."

    I realize the word is common usage. But, it still seems odd to me.
     
  15. TL4S

    TL4S Unverified Clown

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    Yeah, every scenario I can imagine has a snag, mostly because the indisputable facts are few and far between.

    One of the most vital pieces of information to me is from what BP said about the girls talking on the bridge video. IMO, it sounded like she thought they were discussing where to go so they could avoid him. For me, that takes out all the theories involving them doing anything with him voluntarily. But I could also be interpreting things incorrectly.
     
  16. BNA

    BNA Well-Known Member

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    What concerns me is that same "snag" that we all come up against is a snag that prevents the witness they are waiting from connecting the dots.

    MOO, but LE is going to have to reveal more, and do so in a more transparent fashion than they have, if they are really waiting for a light bulb to come on over a witness' head. And, they need to consider that said witness might be thick as a brick.
     
  17. Gumbeaux

    Gumbeaux Stirring up tips

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    I could post this anywhere on WS, but I watched a most interesting discussion on YouTube.

    Peter Hyatt is a statement analyst, and wow! He really reveals how unintentionally revealing anyone’s statement can be. Some examples would be instinctive for sleuthers to cue in on, but his expertise is quite illuminating.

    Search statement analyst Peter Hyatt on YouTube, there are multiple videos.
     
  18. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    Did the LE ever say the phone was found, in all the interviews or the CrimeCon panels?
     
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  19. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    Starting to wonder about that too as a possibility, especially if he had an accomplice. JMO
     
  20. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    That’s only a slight snag for me. Could’ve been a family friend that one or both knew, but didn’t totally care for. At their age they might feel obligated to go with them even if they didn’t like him or if he gave them the creeps. My kid can be mortal enemies with someone and an hour later they are besties - middle school relationships are weird. Like I said, I’m not completely sold on this, but I can see something like this happening.

    What I find puzzling is BP mentioned this conversation about BG a couple of times I think, but I haven’t read where AW confirms the girls apprehension toward BG. I saw where she said they said they talked about the path ending. Was she not privy to the same info or did she interpret their reaction differently?

    I might not have seen her reaction to the additional footage or when I did I did not see her interpretation as dire as BPs. If anyone has a reference I’d appreciate a link.
     
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