Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. Michigan

    Michigan Well-Known Member

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    I keep wondering how LE are so certain that the killer lives in Delphi or is there frequently. Can you think of reasons how they know this? Only things I can think of are (speculating only!):

    + the area is too remote or random for someone not familiar to have been there?

    + he left some sort of evidence at the scene that only a local could have left (like a matchbook or his hat or a time card from a local place or something)?

    + the murder weapon was left there and it’s from a particular company or place in Delphi?

    + they have digital evidence of him communicating with the girls repeatedly and making mention of seeing them in town?

    I really can’t think of anything else. How can they be so certain (and they seem so sure of this fact). If we understand why they know he’s a local I think it could help us understand more about the crime and the killer.

    Apologies if this has already been covered.
     


  2. Torch Carrier

    Torch Carrier Well-Known Member

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    And, Maybe LE doubted Witnesses' date because someone on Periphery or The Inside had tampered with dates OR gave false alibi... like another LE person? Hmmmm.... So now they are IRATE bcuz a back-then-trusted Periphery Person or Insider Scammed Them?! They may not even be sure who ... ?
     
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  3. Krwiley60

    Krwiley60 Well-Known Member

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    In every crime scene, something is taken and something is left. What was left, we don’t know. I believe they found his DNA.
     
  4. Torch Carrier

    Torch Carrier Well-Known Member

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    Witness Lied?
     
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  5. Torch Carrier

    Torch Carrier Well-Known Member

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    Quoting myself- Sorry, was a Beatles lyric... I got it wrong and it was not the place or time.
     
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  6. Krwiley60

    Krwiley60 Well-Known Member

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  7. ACE422

    ACE422 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe she
    I agree... he must not have had much time to have “cleaned up” the scene and he would have been leery of sticking around to do so with other people on the trail. I am hoping at least one of the girls possibly have DNA under their fingernails. MOO
     
  8. Howcanppldosuch

    Howcanppldosuch Well-Known Member

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    I think the guy panicked and ran. I don’t think it matted that it was planned or spontaneous, I think as soon as he realized he killed he bolted
     
  9. Howcanppldosuch

    Howcanppldosuch Well-Known Member

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    If there was no SA then it is possible he left no dna. My bet is he planned to abduct and sa them but they ran, he tracked them down and then killed them. It is frustrating there isn’t firm confirmation of suspect dna. I think the last presser was designed to panic the perp, having said that, I would think telling him his dna was found would panic him more. But I am an armchair detective and not LE. Hopefully they have way more evidence then it seems
     
  10. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Recently I lowered my face, then raised the eyes and looked at myself in the mirror. (All accidentally). I was surprised at how the facial proportions changed. My noticeable chin became small, almost receding, and not so large nose looked almost bulbous. I immediately thought about BG’s face. Him looking down, plus possibly scarf over the face, he looked very different from his regular self, I am sure.

    PE was 55 and looked nothing like the YBG sketch.
     
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  11. Thurston

    Thurston Member

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    Spy Versus Spy, Interesting! What do you mean by:
    "[The Guys] has always sounded to me like as in: "Guys (shows gun / not said but as in some bad news for you both / look at this / sigh I hate to do this butt ...ect)?"

    Do you think that Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German's Murderer sounds as though he is verbally communicating, "I have antipathetic feelings towards hurting / murdering you young children. Even though I am opposed to hurting / killing both of you I am being coerced into committing these heinous acts."

    Or, do you think that Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German's Murderer sounds as though he is verbally communicating trepidation, fear, foreboding when saying "Guys." In other words, do you think that "Guys" is said by the Murderer after realizing his actions caused the death of one of the girls and severe injury to one of the girls? -Is he saying "Guys" due to his own fear and foreboding of being known as The Murderer of Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German, and, his own horror associated with The Murderer thinking of the consequences of his actions that lead to the homicides of two young girls?

    As far as "Down The Hill," do you think that it is possible that "the hill" is the hill on the 300N side of the creek? The hill one would go down if walking to the creek from the cemetery area? When "the hill" is referenced in interviews - it [the hill] appears to be a location. For example, if you and I were familiar with High Bridge and the surrounding area - and you said, "meet me at the hill" - our shared familiarity and knowledge of the area would allow me to know that we were going to meet behind the cemetery off 300N - from there we would "go down the hill; walk to the creek; cross the creek if we wanted to; continue walking towards the private driveway; stay near/around High Bridge S / walk the private drive until reaching the area of land on High Bridge S side that meets the creek directly across from the end of the 505 trail (Mary Gerard Nature Preserve). If the creek is shallow enough, we could walk across / walk up the 505 trail (putting us at High Bridge N), or, walk along the creek until we are under High Bridge (N). On February 14, 2019 when the bodies were found of young teenage Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German - it has been recounted by some of Murder Victim Liberty German's family: "they [Law Enforcement] would not let us go down the hill. Law enforcement was shouting up the hill "what type of shoes does Libby have." Libby's shoe type was shouted down the hill to Law Enforcement." Such accounts given of the events of February 14, 2017 pertaining to the bodies of Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German being found "paint" an image of "the hill" being a fixed locality. Again, meaning that if you and I possessed a shared interest of the locality of/near/around High Bridge -- and you said "let's meet at the hill" I would know the whereabouts of the position of "the hill" - I would know that we were going to meet off of 300N behind the cemetery walk down the hill towards the creek. Law Enforcement has stated that they have not read / seen of a person getting the chronology of the homicides of Abigail Williams and Liberty German correct. Considering dominant online theories consists of The Murderer crossing the creek from High Bridge S area with the very young Murder Victims -- perhaps The Murderer crosses High Bridge N to S angry to see Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German have crossed High Bridge; perhaps Murder Victim Abigail Williams has her back to The Murderer / wearing Murder Victim Liberty German's grey pocketed zip up hooded jacket perhaps Murder Victim Abigail Williams is mistaken for Murder Victim Liberty German by The Murderer / The Murderer uses more force / this combined with The Murderer in a state of complete outrage fatally injures Murder Victim Abigail Williams / perhaps this causes The Murderer to become completely fearful of the consequences of his violent actions / The Murderer somehow talks Murder Victim Liberty German into crossing back towards High Bridge N (perhaps saying something such as "Why, Jesus Guys, what were you guys thinking being on High Bridge? We have to get Abby help. She looked more like you (Libby) as she was wearing your grey jacket standing with her hands in the pockets holding her arms out (put on a similar jacket; put your hands in the pockets - stretching both arms out). There is no way to get Abby back across - we are going to have to walk back, get the vehicle, go to the cemetery, walk down the hill, cross the creek and bring Abby back that way to get her help." Or, perhaps Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German were at High Bridge earlier than 2:07pm on February 13, 2017. When looking at photographs taken of people on High Bridge before / around noon February 14, 2017 - their shadows are facing in the direction of the road 300N (similar to Murder Victim Abigail William's shadow). Perhaps The Murderer accidentally uploaded pictures (and perhaps a video) from Murder Victim Liberty German's phone at / around 2:07pm (with the intention of destroying / deleting photos & video(s)). Perhaps this is the chronology of events Law Enforcement is referring to when stating that dominant theories are incorrect. It seems strange that The Murderer would walk his two teenage Victims across a creek. The Murderer would have no way of knowing if property owners had given 10+ Websleuths Members permission to use the area as target practice. Who knows - perhaps Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German were at High Bridge (took pictures and video(s)) - left High Bridge - were murdered - The Murderer takes Murder Victims back to High Bridge (as The Murderer wants to give the impression that Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German's last known living whereabouts was High Bridge - The Murderer wants to separate himself as much as possible & prevent Law Enforcement from investigating The Murderer's home / place easily linked back to The Murderer. The Murderer cannot transport the bodies of of Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German back to High Bridge (especially using the 501 trail) - The Murderer brings them back either using the cemetery or N 575 W - The Murderer would like to get Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German back to High Bridge as it would appear as though: Abby and Libby were on High Bridge taking pictures & video(s); someone murdered them at High Bridge & left. The closest The Murderer can get his teenage Murder Victims to High Bridge is the area of land on the opposite side of the creek as High Bridge (again either by using the cemetery or N 575 W).

    Apologies for the length Spy Versus Spy and all Websleuths Contributors! This reply is in response to more than one post - I am not sure why - however, I kept getting a "rainbow circle ball," the webpage going up and down, twice I inserted a random video about a man talking about how to use meditation to cure PTSD / Anxiety / and a host of other ailments. After about 4 hours of trying to get my Post Replies Correct -- I decided to just make one long post, and, submit it. Again, my sincere apologies for this lengthy post. Websleuths Community is made up of bright, talented, skilled individuals that I greatly respect. Please know that I did not write and submit this to irritate any of the excellent Websleuths Contributors - and/or upset the perceptive flow of this thread.

    Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Justice for Murder Victims Abigail Williams and Liberty German is long over due. May The Murderer and any person(s) that may be protecting The Murderer begin speaking the truth.
     
  12. Spy Versus Spy

    Spy Versus Spy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Thurston. It's good to see your thoughts.

    The 'Guys...' to me has an insincere, apologetic tone. Used simultaneously with (and to highlight) the drawing of a gun or other weapon.

    Almost as if saying 'Guys, I dont want to do this but...hey...here is what Im going to use to do it' or ..' Guys...it's that time folks, sorry but...'. Etc


    Both utterly insincere and arrogant.

    I hear it stylistically often...but only when the circumstances are trivial..

    'Guys....terrible news...Ive eaten the last chocolate'.... etc.

    It's a device for humour and dramatic overplaying, then undercut with the tag action... build the drama and seriousness and then undercut it.

    However....in the BG usage, the tag line and actions are far far beyond even the most easily imagined worst case scenario....which is what gives it the arrogance and chill factor....he's actually playing on the convention.


    Hope that makes any sense?! :)



    The Hill , imo, could be anywhere in the area. Not cert its at the NE end. But if I had to choose right now I would say it is indeed the end where the Girls were when image/vud of BG was taken and its down the hill there to the creek.

    Ps...also I dont know if the Girls actually followed that instruction!!
     
  13. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    Grandfather of Delphi victim 'optimistic' that murderer will be caught

    New interview with MP.

    Today is the day. So hope the waiting will soon be over for the families.

    A bit from the article

    One of these days we're going to be right. Today will be the day," said Patty, explaining he's optimistic, but not pinning his hopes on recent developments like investigators requesting the DNA and autopsy results of 55-year-old Paul Etter.

    Etter died by suicide last month after a standoff with police in Boone County. He was wanted for rape and kidnapping of a Tippecanoe county woman. Investigators say Etter's name had already come in as someone to look at in the Delphi case.

    "Eventually, we're going to get to the bottom of it, whether it's this tip or not," said Patty.
     
  14. 2Hope4

    2Hope4 Well-Known Member

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    interesting indeed! I wonder if there's video of the perp sustaining an injury from one of the girls and they are looking for a scar? I would think there is ample voice recordings of PE during that standoff.
     
  15. Michigan

    Michigan Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me some new information has come to light to:

    + make LE change their sketch and age range
    + make LE now convinced he is a local

    I suspect the sketch and age range update came through a DNA profile. I don’t understand what could have come to light recently to convince them that he is local.
     
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  16. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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    It is amazing how optimistic Liberty’s family are and how they are not losing patience with law enforcement by now. My heart goes out to them.
     
  17. Spy Versus Spy

    Spy Versus Spy Well-Known Member

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    LE seem to me to be going through the motions regarding PE, as they surely would with any extreme case within a fair radius, given that the Delphi Murders are still unresolved.

    Blatantly but kindly saying dont get your hopes up guys.

    As does MP in linked article above. Focus on the new sketch really is what he's saying.

    Even the original source article included the prominent disclaimers offered by Leazenby. Of course we're checking him out...as we are, and have already done, with many others but we're not overly ,realistically , concerned this is our guy.

    All other msm articles ive read are just editorially refocussed from the orig article announcing it first. Depending on how desperate they are for copy or clicks ( Hello Daily Mail Online).

    Methinks we here at WS HQ are understandably hoping for something more than what is there.

    Hope Im wrong. I usually am.


    All speculation and moo
     
  18. max99

    max99 Well-Known Member

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  19. TL4S

    TL4S Well-Known Member

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    The poor man has stated before that when he gets up in the morning, he thinks about the last 30 minutes of both those girls' lives. I'm sure every time he is in town, he's looking at every male and wondering if that is the one who did this to his granddaughter. After two sketches, all the rumors, countless suspects who have come into light and then faded away...it would be maddening.

    While I'm not set on PE being BG, I almost hope he is. No trial to sit through, no more wondering, no feeling suspicious of everyone around them. No more danger to anyone else. That family needs closure.
     
  20. Jamie737

    Jamie737 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding which hill is the subject of "Down the hill" -

    Does anybody have a link for a statement I heard that the crime tape was put up on the South slopes - ie the dead-end of the bridge's side?
     
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