Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[Rosegold68]

Just looking on geocaching.com for the monon bridge cache. Few remarks on there under logs

Something about it currently being closed for work.... but a few comments on there are interesting.... one about men there for a meeting particularly

Kelsi has about 20 local caches, but why are the trail caches now all disabled? Has the owner moved them for a reason? All s bit odd

 

[mtnlites]

Just looking on geocaching.com for the monon bridge cache. Few remarks on there under logs

Something about it currently being closed for work.... but a few comments on there are interesting.... one about men there for a meeting particularly

Kelsi has about 20 local caches, but why are the trail caches now all disabled? Has the owner moved them for a reason? All s bit odd

We talked about this early on but then we were told that the topic wasn't allowed on here. As some who is into GC, though, my guess is that they were moved out of respect for the girls. Already lots of people are heading to the park and bridge for what I call "true crime tourism."

 

[Rosegold68]

Well the latest post says it’s all closed off so who knows

There could be some good leads come from that as people go there specifically to look for an item so will be noticing things/people and all surroundings

And importantly, they will have been there before the crime and just after so will maybe have seen something.....piece of the jigsaw

 

[mtnlites]

Forgive me if I am behind on info but has anyone adequately investigated FSG? And in the still of BG does it appear to anyone else that he is wearing a plaid flannel shirt under his jacket? Just a thought.

As he is not a POI, we can't discuss him. His age is out of the range that LE has given us, though, and he doesn't physically resemble BG. LE probably started their investigation with the people who were known to be on the trail that day.

 

[mtnlites]

Well the latest post says it’s all closed off so who knows

There could be some good leads come from that as people go there specifically to look for an item so will be noticing things/people and all surroundings

And importantly, they will have been there before the crime and just after so will maybe have seen something.....piece of the jigsaw

The bridge has been closed for most of my lifetime.

 

[Boxer]

S and BBM

This I have never understood. Makes absolutely zero sense to me.

Several members of my family have blue eyes. If I’m sitting across the table from them and the others who do not have blue eyes, I cannot tell a huge difference unless I get closer. Point being that I’m either close enough to see their eye color or I’m not.

There are just far too many shades of blue to discount blue eyes unless one can discern the actual eye color.

That witness comment will never make any sense to me. And at this stage, it’s actually beyond that- the comment has started to stand out to me as downright bizarre and out of place. MOO.

MOO enlarged black pupils make the iris ring very thin, so brown and hazel hard to tell apart. Blue, lighter blue anyway always can be detected as a thin ring of blue.

 

[Boxer]

The bridge has been closed for most of my lifetime.

MOO you are right, People don't obey signs, eapecially about scenic spots.

 

[IQuestion]

I don't think it matters now how the old sketch with the hat to be ignored came about, but Sgt Holeman did an interview around the time it was released, which is in the media thread at approx the mid July 2017 timeframe. It is explained as a composite and a female witness is mentioned.

WRT the new sketch, it was one witness sitting down with a sketch artist and it was put aside initially because we had the still from the video. What we do not know is exactly why this has happened that the focus has changed from an older man to someone as young as 18. This change happened between the Feb 2019 PC and the Apr 2019 PC. What could be the reason for this change?

Afternoon from the West Coast TRESIR... Who hasn't wondered what changed?? I have thought the DNA samples were difficult to process because of the scene being a "three -person mixture." (Abby, Libby and their attacker, at a minimum) Then preparing the samples properly for testing, and finding out the results. And that is just on blood evidence. I'm thinking hair samples might not be plentiful if the perp shaved his head or arms. (Similar to Joel Radovich shaving his entire body prior to killing the Ewell family in Fresno.) Possibly, (my thoughts only) the results which can show a positive correlation up to six degrees of relatedness. (Sound familiar...not a coincidence IMO.) Oddly, I just thought of something really weird....what if the
DNA of the perp (once isolated from the victims) was found to be related to another distant family member who provided DNA sample? Ugh, that definitely turned the investigation right back to Delphi, not nationwide trucking outposts. Not only that, but a distant relative...second cousin (a female for instance) voluntarily gave a sample of their DNA...and it showed a familial link to the murders. Oh wow! That's what I think changed: not only the geographic location, but also the age range of the perp.
(Did everyone get that? Think Faye Dunaway, "she's my sister, she's my daughter" kind of confusion.)

 

[Boxer]

Afternoon from the West Coast TRESIR... Who hasn't wondered what changed?? I have thought the DNA samples were difficult to process because of the scene being a "three -person mixture." (Abby, Libby and their attacker, at a minimum) Then preparing the samples properly for testing, and finding out the results. And that is just on blood evidence. I'm thinking hair samples might not be plentiful if the perp shaved his head or arms. (Similar to Joel Radovich shaving his entire body prior to killing the Ewell family in Fresno.) Possibly, (my thoughts only) the results which can show a positive correlation up to six degrees of relatedness. (Sound familiar...not a coincidence IMO.) Oddly, I just thought of something really weird....what if the
DNA of the perp (once isolated from the victims) was found to be related to another distant family member who provided DNA sample? Ugh, that definitely turned the investigation right back to Delphi, not nationwide trucking outposts. Not only that, but a distant relative...second cousin (a female for instance) voluntarily gave a sample of their DNA...and it showed a familial link to the murders. Oh wow! That's what I think changed: not only the geographic location, but also the age range of the perp.
(Did everyone get that? Think Faye Dunaway, "she's my sister, she's my daughter" kind of confusion.)

MOO Rural Indiana probably has many distant cousins, still sorting it all out would and catching this assailant would be highly motivational.

 

[Detective Willy]

MOO they don't have a DNA match. They have had three false confessions that I have heard about. In the old days one of those would have been hung, and they would call it solved.

I have never heard about the 3 false confessions? I just wish LE would release known information to the public faster - I don't know anyone who could recall what they were doing at a specific time on any given day years ago (unless it was a special occasion to that person) and this is what LE asks the public to do when they have these press conferences years later and ask you to remember a car etc or release "snippets" of audio etc. With any puzzle solving the more clues you get given (the public) the easier the puzzle is to solve. The only reason I can think of LE doing this is that they know who the killer is and they are tightening the case. I don't understand the 2 sketches either but don't get me started. Why release the first one to begin with and then a totally different one?

 

[mtnlites]

MOO you are right, People don't obey signs, eapecially about scenic spots.

*raises hand*

Guilty!

 

[CelticIre]

Ted Bundy had been arrested several times though

His first arrest was August 16, 1975 -- after he had murdered 17 women (that we know of) and attempted to kidnap DaRonch.

He was subsequently arrested several times over the next three years on other charges, including murder, burglary, felony theft, and escape. But the majority of his murders were committed long before he was ever even a suspect, much less apprehended.

Which, unfortunately, is not uncommon.

Timeline of many of Ted Bundy's brutal crimes

 

[MJPeony]

MOO enlarged black pupils make the iris ring very thin, so brown and hazel hard to tell apart. Blue, lighter blue anyway always can be detected as a thin ring of blue.

Even so.... I’m just not feeling it. The witness would have had to have been paying attention to the size of the person’s pupils. Which would have been incredible (figuratively... but I’m now leaning towards literally). And then the witness had to be confident enough to tell LE they had no idea what color the eyes were but definitely NOT blue. Nope. Doesn’t jive for me. Something just has never sat right with me about this eye color account.

 

[BradB]

Ted Bundy would have been caught long before his time today. I dont get how people think people are 100% evil. People are too complex to be one way all the time.

 

[somequestions]

His first arrest was August 16, 1975 -- after he had murdered 17 women (that we know of) and attempted to kidnap DaRonch.

He was subsequently arrested several times over the next three years on other charges, including murder, burglary, felony theft, and escape. But the majority of his murders were committed long before he was ever even a suspect, much less apprehended.

Which, unfortunately, is not uncommon.

Timeline of many of Ted Bundy's brutal crimes

If the murderer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German has been arrested before, I am guessing it has not been for any major crime. I reported a tip to the tip line a few times about a cold storage truck driver I saw one time. The guy I saw was at least 50 years old so it does not match what police are looking for currently. He looked nothing like either sketch. I am guessing it was nothing. I would never have even reported it had it not been for the video/picture Liberty German took of the man on the bridge that day. Like they said, report it and let the police determine whether or not the tip is useful. I did this a long time ago.

It is scary to think that the murderer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German could possibly be a truck driver because that means this person has potentially been driving around for many years.

If this case is solved, the one question that I would like the answer to is, "Where did the killer park their vehicle?" There had to be a vehicle somewhere near the Monon High Bridge trail that this person could walk back to and leave. I think that is the key question to solving this case.

 

[Torch Carrier]

I don't think it matters now how the old sketch with the hat to be ignored came about, but Sgt Holeman did an interview around the time it was released, which is in the media thread at approx the mid July 2017 timeframe. It is explained as a composite and a female witness is mentioned.

WRT the new sketch, it was one witness sitting down with a sketch artist and it was put aside initially because we had the still from the video. What we do not know is exactly why this has happened that the focus has changed from an older man to someone as young as 18. This change happened between the Feb 2019 PC and the Apr 2019 PC. What could be the reason for this change?

One thing that happened between these dates is the strangulation murder of a young woman followed by arrests of several individuals, all from that general area. There is another thread pertaining to that case. Could it be that one or more of those involved in THAT case may have been in the vicinity during these events of THIS case and possible one was questioned and gave out false info resulting in a false witness sketch (OBG) to throw things off, which was realized to be false by LE only recently when this other murder occurred and the then-witness was found among those arrested? IDK Just speculation on my part.

 

[Boxer]

Well the latest post says it’s all closed off so who knows

There could be some good leads come from that as people go there specifically to look for an item so will be noticing things/people and all surroundings

And importantly, they will have been there before the crime and just after so will maybe have seen something.....piece of the jigsaw

Yes, agree. Assailant may have been seen in weeks prior planning or just getting familiar with the land.

 

[Torch Carrier]

Wanted to add ... We cannot discuss anything from the Scanner Thread here per TOS. Hope my last post is acceptable; it is too late to delete or edit it! : /

 

[tresir2012]

Even so.... I’m just not feeling it. The witness would have had to have been paying attention to the size of the person’s pupils. Which would have been incredible (figuratively... but I’m now leaning towards literally). And then the witness had to be confident enough to tell LE they had no idea what color the eyes were but definitely NOT blue. Nope. Doesn’t jive for me. Something just has never sat right with me about this eye color account.

I'm coming to the conclusion that witness lied to protect the real culprit, who will have blue eyes. What other answer can there be? AJMO

Afternoon from the West Coast TRESIR... Who hasn't wondered what changed?? I have thought the DNA samples were difficult to process because of the scene being a "three -person mixture." (Abby, Libby and their attacker, at a minimum) Then preparing the samples properly for testing, and finding out the results. And that is just on blood evidence. I'm thinking hair samples might not be plentiful if the perp shaved his head or arms. (Similar to Joel Radovich shaving his entire body prior to killing the Ewell family in Fresno.) Possibly, (my thoughts only) the results which can show a positive correlation up to six degrees of relatedness. (Sound familiar...not a coincidence IMO.) Oddly, I just thought of something really weird....what if the
DNA of the perp (once isolated from the victims) was found to be related to another distant family member who provided DNA sample? Ugh, that definitely turned the investigation right back to Delphi, not nationwide trucking outposts. Not only that, but a distant relative...second cousin (a female for instance) voluntarily gave a sample of their DNA...and it showed a familial link to the murders. Oh wow! That's what I think changed: not only the geographic location, but also the age range of the perp.
(Did everyone get that? Think Faye Dunaway, "she's my sister, she's my daughter" kind of confusion.)

Definitely could be something like this too.

 

[tresir2012]

Dupe post deleted