Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. Hoosier952

    Hoosier952 Well-Known Member

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    Snipped-

    There were a few seasons still going on, rabbit, fox, coyote, and crow, AFAIK.

    Landowners and lessees are not allowed to hunt year round, only during designated hunting seasons. However, landowners and lessees may kill nuisance animals year round. Fishing is a year round thing and a license isn't required for fishing on private land.

    Seeing someone decked out in full camo, even carrying a weapon wouldn't seem out of the ordinary to me and likely any LE in the state of Indiana. Even after seasons end, people are still out putting up and taking down trail cameras, moving hunting blinds and stands, and scouting hunting areas. I generally carry a weapon when I'm out in the woods as a general precaution. I've never run into any aggressive predators, but I've known people who have. Also it's not uncommon to run into trespassers and you just never know their intentions.

    I don't think he has to be a local and I don't think it would have required a lot of planning. Aside from showing up in a fairly unknown area, it doesn't take a real genius to get around in the woods. I do it all the time in places I've never been without prior knowledge in some huge wilderness areas without landmarks where everything looks the same. One walk to and across the bridge would be able to show most people what areas were visible from the trail and bridge and what areas were not and the fastest and/or easiest route to get from one to the other. It's not hard to see whether a creek is deep or shallow or if the terrain is too steep. I think all he needed was decent situational awareness and a vague sense of direction, although under that limited amount of area, it's not really required as your main landmark (the bridge) would be visible for quite some time. If he walks too far, he's going to be able to see houses/structures.

    Anyone who has spent time in the woods would be at an advantage in that situation, not just limited to hunters.

    How many cameras were in the area? I've never heard anything that would point to anyone avoiding them because they knew they were there, rather than there just weren't any around. Some of the businesses may have had them, but they were likely focused on the parking lot and/or around the business itself. I doubt there were many trail or traffic cameras around. Not very many people would be willing to leave a trail camera in a public area just because of the risk of theft. We've lost enough of them on private property.

    I will not speculate on the reasoning or motive for the murders. People murder for all sorts of reasons and sometimes no apparent reason at all.

    I'm not sure exactly what you're implying re: Libby running into something near the bridge and being persuaded to return it.
     


  2. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    The witness, IMO saw BG heading towards the bridge.
    I think there was another witness who saw BG leaving the Bridge area walking towards FB. JMO
    Also, each witness might have seem something "Similar" but not exact, hence the 2 different sketches . JMO
     
  3. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    The "witness" could also mean a close family member witnessed the aftermath, the killer's condition physically and mentally immediately following the murders. It sounds like LE really does have a single suspect in mind now. Whomever is close to that person hasn't come forward but I can only guess why.
     
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  4. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if this has already been asked, but I'm just trying to catch up. My questions would be, of the "several" witnesses that contributed to the sketch released in July of 2017, did ALL of them agree that the sketch released resembled BG?
     
  5. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    Well I presume so or it wouldn't be a composite is how I interpret what was said then.

    There is no way we would know that really.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  6. PaulaDC

    PaulaDC Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, DBM, although it was nothing more than an accidental screen touch!
     
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  7. Spartygirl

    Spartygirl Verified Insider - Michael Vanzandt case

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    I am concerned about the 2nd sketch as the same sketch artist did a sketch on someone for a crime in another city and I swear, to me, they look identical. Same artist did these and IMO he is not really qualified LOL
    Police release sketch of suspect in Lowell break-ins
     
  8. susiQ

    susiQ Well-Known Member

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    The sketch is such a conundrum, isn't it. OBG, does indeed look "older" and he has a goatee. So, a few people saw someone with a goatee which resulted in OBG. BUT, ONE person saw NBG and saw something they felt needed to be reported, someone younger looking WITHOUT a goatee (he may have one now, who knows?). NOW, we're told that NBG IS the killer. So WHO did the other people see (OBG) if he was NOT the killer?? o_O:confused: It's o.k., call me crazy but none of this makes sense.
     
  9. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    I mean, the witnesses... how does one become a witness? Once the information about the murders is released, the person steps forward and says, hi, i was present as the trails, at such-and-such time (and he/she has to give a good reason to be there). And I saw such-and-such person.

    So the best thing is if one person is there for a reason “hiking with my friend”, or “meeting my fiancé”, and the other one corroborates (“Yes, I was late, and on my way I saw...who... and when I approached my fiancée, she was shaken”).

    So I assume there might have been two witnesses, known to one another, the other one becomes the alibi for the first one...or better, they are both alibis for and another.

    And they’d better be reliable people, as two meth addicts are even less believable than one.
     
  10. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Especially the eye asymmetry.

    3D cranial nerve palsy. Diagnostic and serious.
     

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  11. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    That's what I've been thinking all along, @sunshineray -- LE sounded so confident about this case and an arrest, and it bothered me -- that LE saying that, might scare the perpetrator into leaving town or the state before LE could arrest him. I still don't quite understand why LE was so confident -- but I have faith in them still. Your example of the Rhoden case (I didn't follow that one) makes me feel better about this one. :)
     
  12. MJPeony

    MJPeony SF Bay Area

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    Good find.

    Oh bummer. I have to say this makes me a bit more discouraged. They really do look alike and some of the more “identifying” characteristics I thought stood out with NBG are the same as in this sketch. i.e. therefore not “identifying”....
     
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  13. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone seeing what I finally started seeing on the video? BG walking - is it possible that his gait is totally OK, no neuropathy, no limping, but he has something like OCD, or tics, that makes his gait so odd?

    What I see him doing now is intentionally touching/ hitting the ankle of L foot with the heel of the right one. Like, you know, some people try not to step on the pavement cracks when walking, or periodically touching a wall with one hand, or some other odd mannerisms... OCD, nothing else?

    With OCD, such gait might appear - disappear randomly, it usually goes away when the person is distracted. I was wondering, how could someone run so fast with neuropathic gait? But it might be normal, and then OCD would kick in.

    OCD mannerisms are not totally "on a whim", not "voluntary", or rather, they are, but aren't, because the condition is ego-dystonic, but they can go away, and definitely, they can change. If it is OCD, he may very well be not walking like this now.

    I wonder if one should look for someone who had such gait as a child, at school. If they think he grew up here, ask teachers at Delphi Middle and HS, and in the surrounding area, too? Or have some other odd mannerisms, or maybe have tics? The person would not blend in, but the condition might not be there now. He'd definitely look very odd during the OCD flare up. I found Gray Hughes' video, but there is one on Carrol County FB, too.



    Of all motor compulsions, I found only tapping here, but IRL they can be so bad... Think of a person crossing-uncrossing the street. And yes, there is some genetic link to religiosity, but the gene causing both, actually, is responsible for "fear of making mistakes". (Perfectionism because people feel intense shame).

    Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) - HelpGuide.org
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  14. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    Hi!
    Please please please report this if you have not already. I am a Delphi resident, and in our community there is not ONE person who was not affected by this. If you need to know who to contact, I can help. If you want to be anonymous, I can help. Police here are pretty darn sure the person who ended these 2 beautiful lives had to be familiar with this area. It's not a big area. At all. My daughters live here, and we are literally only a mile away from where they were discovered. Please if you haven't, call the Delphi Police Department direct. They will listen to you.
     
  15. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    I'm from the area, and to my knowledge, everything that has been released came from the very brave and smart young lady who recorded her own horrible death. I'm not an expert by any means. My only question/ frustration is the lack of anything helpful being released. A tiny video clip, and a snippet of voice. You know they have more. Everyone in the community is frustrated by this, as we all want answers.
     
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  16. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    Please please call it in directly to the Delphi Police department. Ask for the chief of police. Please. I don't know if it's ok to put on here, but I have his direct cell number.
     
  17. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    I am from Delphi and I can say for certainty 2 things. One. No one witnessed the crime. Two. The crime was recorded on the young ladies cell. Ok. Four things. Three. There was a witness who saw a man in the high bridge area that day. Four. Our police department is doing all they can, but we're simply not equipped to handle this type of thing. Historically speaking, I believe there have been maybe 2 other murders here ever, and I can guess those were drunken rages or lovers' quarrels. I can also say, everyone here is extremely frustrated by the minimal release of any information. As a mother of 2 girls, who lives within a stones throw of the scene, I'm am anxious for them to find the bastard that literally destroyed our small town and our way of life. This area is remote as it is, then add that high bridge is even more remote, he knew the area. Very well. That's why they are convinced he's a local. It's not a marked area, it's just known to local kids who are not afraid of heights as a place to get a thrill walking on a delapidated old train bridge.
     
  18. Jazzy5980

    Jazzy5980 Well-Known Member

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    What leads you to this conclusion? Thanks!
     
  19. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    There was no witness to the crime, I know to be a fact. I believe the "witnesses" were in the area and saw a man walking alone. They also have video taken by the girls themselves
     
  20. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    I'm a Delphi resident, and can guarantee there would be no fear in saying you were there for any reason. It is a locals only known spot to test your fear of heights, or go for a stroll. An unofficial hiking area/ park known to those of us living here.
     
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