Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    Good perspective. Following that thought he could have just removed the SIM or destroyed it, if he was knowledgeable and or was lucid enough after to think about it at all.
     


  2. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    I would also like to add that there are certain apps that immediately delete messages, not saying they were used, just saying I've seen other cases stumped by those. I am unsure as to if LE can retrieve those as some of those encrypted apps have gotten pretty good at it. Anyone know if tech is available to retrieve those?
     
  3. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    Valid thought and as you can imagine in 111 threads, that has been questioned/discussed. Some various ideas about that off the top of my head include:

    1. Perhaps BG wasn’t aware that Libby had a phone on her because:

    A) He just didn’t think about or anticipate it at the time

    B) She hid it/tossed it before he could know about it/see it and was recovered later by LE, on either land or in the creek (or she tossed it after he became aware of it).

    D) Libby had it on her person, perhaps in her pocket or bra for example. Since COD is unknown to us, as well as confirmation of SA, then the possibility exists he wouldn’t have found it on her if he:

    AA) Killed her in a non hands on manner such as gunshot

    BB) Didn’t sexually assault Libby or otherwise have extended physical contact with her.

    2) If BG found it he maybe attempted to destroy it or throw it in the water but the data was recovered.

    3) If he did see the phone perhaps it was lost during the scuffle or escape/exit.

    *I feel like there are some other ideas shared on possibilities as to why the phone could have been left at the scene, but I can’t remember them all right now, lol. Feel free to add anyone.

    Additionally:

    Opinions/thoughts here also vary on if BG is:

    A) Disorganized & not necessarily experienced, but rather “lucky”

    B) Experienced, Organized

    C) Some combination of both.

    —-

    Yeah. BG was indeed hunting, imo; unfortunately it wasn’t for morel mushrooms.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  4. steeltowngirl

    steeltowngirl Well-Known Member

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    Quick search shows several, so definitely yes. And the FBI would have access to every possible tool available.

    How to Recover Snapchat Messages on iPhone
    iPhone Snapchat Recovery - How to Recover Snapchat Messages on iPhone?
     
  5. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    That is where it gets a smidge confusing and muddled. Technically within city limits is city, outside is county, etc. However the chain links of LE start mingling in any serious situation. It is not uncommon for county to back up a city, for even just a domestic. This is a all hands on deck matter, up to and including the FBI. They were called in very quickly. We even quite frequently have other close city officers responding to calls if needed. I guess a simple answer is all. As for the detectives, we actually do have them. But in any area where there caseload is relatively small, they also handle the small stuff. I guess you could say jurisdiction here is not a pissing match, and everyone pitches in where needed. Technically this would be a county case. But again, not too important to our LE here.
     
  6. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    Oh boy. I can say with certainty that chances are super super slim he did not know about the phone unless she tossed it at some point after they knew they were in serious trouble. They were found during a search of the area in which local volunteers were present. Please do not take that as confirmation as to anything concerning the nature of the crime as they are not releasing that information for very good reasons.

    I also want to add that I only spoke up in order to direct the chain of very good thoughts in the right direction, rather than have many branches of thought.

    When volunteers are involved, it gets a little muddy, as they have to talk to someone they trust, especially if it was their first time encountering a crime scene. I believe our crew did a very good job of being respectful of LEs wishes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  7. MingyMoo

    MingyMoo Former Member

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    Interesting this would mean the video/voice was captured on the phone memory and not the sim or uploaded to the cloud automatically, where and if there was a suitably strong enough signal. Which ever way taking the sim didn't help. The video and the voice was captured and the physical phone with or without sim was left behind.

    MingyMoo
     
  8. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    That hopefully will play a role in figuring out motive. Thank you. Do you know anything about apps other than Snapchat? I was watching a documentary where encrypted conversations could not be recovered, and remember LE being very frustrated about that. With growing tech, I'm hoping nothing that is not the case anymore. I cannot remember the documentary, but it involved a missing mom.
     
  9. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    All that can actually be confirmed was that very valuable information was obtained because of a very brave girl having the strength to record what she could. They have also said that they have released all they are willing to.
     
  10. Justice101

    Justice101 Well-Known Member

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    It's easy to go down the rabbit hole with convincing yourself of something while ignoring anything that doesn't fit the pattern. So.. given that...I'll give you a 1 in 100,000 chance of it really being BG. Glad you sent in your tip though.
     
  11. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the people giving information that led to the OBG composite were not misleading on purpose and just telling about someone they saw in the area, not necessarily on the day of the murders. I think it's possible LE tracked down this person and tested their DNA leading to an elimination of the OBG sketch. Either that or combined with familial DNA testing leading to a certain family and someone in that family who favored the witness's description of the NBG sketch. Thank you for sharing your local perspective, it's very much appreciated.
     
  12. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    Every little bit helps. And I for one am glad she did. I read the thread before it got deleted, and she may have a very good tip.
    I agree that the rabbit hole is easy to fall in to, but rabbits can be found in their holes, and many cases get solved because someone finally shared some information they did not think was important. I think it's more important to have the mindset that no clue us too small rather than worry about odds. Every victim deserves justice. And IMHO, every citizen has a responsibility to share any tip they may have
     
  13. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    While they are being very tight lipped, and unless I missed something, I would think a sketch based on DNA in any way would be reported as such...? Presenting a sketch with that info would make it way more credible. But who knows.
     
  14. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    I spoke to soon - I just got it and can't believe it. It must be because I said S*****g in my post. How ridiculous is that?
     
  15. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    Disregard as poster meant an ample sample, not smoke sample...but it is iinteresting to note if killer was a smoker it could change a DNA sample.


    Do you mean because the killer was a smoker it effected the DNA sample? I just looked that up and was surprised that is the case with some DNA testing especially paternity tested. They tell smokers to not smoke for an hour before swabbing for genetic testing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  16. steeltowngirl

    steeltowngirl Well-Known Member

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    I have no first hand knowledge of recovering messages from apps. I was just lamely googling. I’m aware of WhatsApp and others, no idea if they are encrypted. Hoping others with knowledge weigh in.
     
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  17. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    Lol. Understood. And yes, hoping for weigh ins. I'm only aware of certain apps as I have a teen myself, and am pretty vigilant and open with her. I know there are several out there. Of which the penalty for downloading those in my home is losing tech. Lol.
     
  18. momma_k

    momma_k Well-Known Member

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    That was a auto correct mishap. I typed ample. My stupid phone thought smoke was more appropriate. Smh. So no.. I meant they were able to recover a valid sample
     
  19. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    TY for summarising like this. I do have a couple of queries if @momma_k can address.

    Not quite zero businesses in the area. We do have Mears Farms and the Storage business plus another store the Hoosier something with the very large Andersons and Indian Packers within approx a mile. Correct me if wrong.
    The DNA has been mentioned as being complicated. Not sure what LE meant by that and if I remembered correctly or not about that.
    Sheriff Leazenby in the Renner interview denied the murder is on tape. Part of the "criminal activity" is on tape (the abduction and assault?).
     
  20. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    You said everyone going to jail gets swabbed. I thought only felony arrests got swabbed in Indiana so are you saying they are even swabbing just misdemeanour arrests also? If so is that all over Indiana or just Delphi?
     
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