Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[sunshineray]

While they are being very tight lipped, and unless I missed something, I would think a sketch based on DNA in any way would be reported as such...? Presenting a sketch with that info would make it way more credible. But who knows.

No i didn't mean the NBG was a DNA based sketch. I meant that familial DNA testing on the killer's DNA sample led them to someone who actually favored the witness's account that the NBG sketch was based on. The sketch that was the actual first done but discarded for the composite OBG sketch.

 

[momma_k]

You said everyone going to jail gets swabbed. I thought only felony arrests got swabbed in Indiana so are you saying they are even swabbing just misdemeanour arrests also? If so is that all over Indiana or just Delphi?

Apologies if I misspoke, as I have not been in that situation, but it's my understanding that they do. Perhaps it may just be those headed to the DOC. I will check on that. I do know that the possibility of the BG being held in County was already looked into extensively. There was an incident involving someone being held there after local gossip went to far. Again, huge apologies. I will definitely ask about that.

 

[momma_k]

TY for summarising like this. I do have a couple of queries if @momma_k can address.

Not quite zero businesses in the area. We do have Mears Farms and the Storage business plus another store the Hoosier something with the very large Andersons and Indian Packers within approx a mile. Correct me if wrong.
The DNA has been mentioned as being complicated. Not sure what LE meant by that and if I remembered correctly or not about that.
Sheriff Leazenby in the Renner interview denied the murder is on tape. Part of the "criminal activity" is on tape (the abduction and assault?).

I should have specified in the immediate area of the location, as in being able to capture the events that occured which was my understanding if the intention of the poster I replied to. Packers and Anderson's are in the generalish area, as the crow flies. Anderson's requires large amounts of storage, not necessarily a large employee base. I was speaking to the immediate area as in definitely able to capture anything on any security they may have. The area involved in this instance would not be involved in any line of sight of a business.

As far as the other queries, they should not be commented on. I would say to go to the interviews to see what was released. They are available on here.

 

[MingyMoo]

All that can actually be confirmed was that very valuable information was obtained because of a very brave girl having the strength to record what she could. They have also said that they have released all they are willing to.

I agree with you 100%. She was quick thinking and on the ball for whatever reason. No one can take that away. I personally wouldn't ask LE to release anything they weren't comfortable with and simply assume rightly or wrongly they are lining all their Ducks up in a Row.

• However as always I personally think some things should be open if ever the perpetrator comes to trial and is successfully convicted.
• Although I would never mean harm or hurt to those involved. I do think it is correct to let people know what happened so as they can recognise it again should it happen.

FFS the bloke could have flipped because the girls were at the wrong place at the wrong time disturbed his quiet contemplation whilst he was quietly assessing his own life. We just do not know what his motive was. It could be anything from sexual gratification, to wrong place wrong time you recognise me I need you gone and anything possible in between.

My personal opinion is I really do think these young Ladies were in the wrong place at the wrong time and the perpetrator is one hell of a selfish coward & SOB forgive my language.

MM

 

[tresir2012]

Totally not to be argumentative, but the entry leads to a park, set of trails as well. Logansport is still considered quite local, in these small areas and with all the technology now, it is not uncommon for kids to have friends in several of the small towns around. When you literally have graduating classes of about 100 to 150, pickings are slim lol.

Ok so the perp could theoretically be from Logansport, Peru, Lebanon or Lafayette as a few examples ? ( We had searches early on in Peru and Lebanon also.) Would "local" include Kokomo and Franfort too I wonder? That's a lot of people considered as local, for sure.

 

[momma_k]

I agree with you 100%. She was quick thinking and on the ball for whatever reason. No one can take that away. I personally wouldn't ask LE to release anything they weren't comfortable with and simply assume rightly or wrongly they are lining all their Ducks up in a Row.

• However as always I personally think some things should be open if ever the perpetrator comes to trial and is successfully convicted.
• Although I would never mean harm or hurt to those involved. I do think it is correct to let people know what happened so as they can recognise it again should it happen.

FFS the bloke could have flipped because the girls were at the wrong place at the wrong time disturbed his quiet contemplation whilst he was quietly assessing his own life. We just do not know what his motive was. It could be anything from sexual gratification, to wrong place wrong time you recognise me I need you gone and anything possible in between.

My personal opinion is I really do think these young Ladies were in the wrong place at the wrong time and the perpetrator is one hell of a selfish coward & SOB forgive my language.

MM

I agree. No need to apologise for language. I have many other more colorful words to use. And again agreed. While I respect LE, there is something to be said for releasing at least a bit more information. One, I could definitely go into more detail here and that discussion could possibly help end this. Two, human nature is to speculate. With so little to go on, speculations can actually be more damaging to the family than the truth released. That was certainly the case here for quite awhile. I know folks involved in the search, etc. And it is quite difficult for them to not correct all of the speculators. It's just down right complicated.

I am literally watching every word I say. I am by no means an expert, and I am only trying to help. I've already learned a few lessons in just a few hours. You all are very thorough, and pick up on even small nuances. I have to be very careful about every word, and apologize in advance for anything I have said or will say that may be perceived out of the context it was intended. I am merely a very concerned citizen, trying to do what I consider to be my responsibility as not only a citizen of Delphi, but if the world. If everyone cared as much as the folks on here, the world would be a very different place. Kudos to you all.

 

[tresir2012]

I should have specified in the immediate area of the location, as in being able to capture the events that occured which was my understanding if the intention of the poster I replied to. Packers and Anderson's are in the generalish area, as the crow flies. Anderson's requires large amounts of storage, not necessarily a large employee base. I was speaking to the immediate area as in definitely able to capture anything on any security they may have. The area involved in this instance would not be involved in any line of sight of a business.

As far as the other queries, they should not be commented on. I would say to go to the interviews to see what was released. They are available on here.

"As far as the other queries" - i don't get what you mean, they shouldn't be commented on? That's what we are here for IMO to comment, discuss and speculate.

Did you see my PC questions? You may have answered so apologies if you have I am trying to catch up on posts.

 

[momma_k]

Ok so the perp could theoretically be from Logansport, Peru, Lebanon or Lafayette as a few examples ? ( We had searches early on in Peru and Lebanon also.) Would "local" include Kokomo and Franfort too I wonder? That's a lot of people considered as local, for sure.

I think you are completely missing the intent of the content and information.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Momma_k, LE has said there is a "twist" in this case. Do you or anyone else local have a hunch what it is? I have one theory, but it based on my POI.

 

[momma_k]

"As far as the other queries" - i don't get what you mean, they shouldn't be commented on? That's what we are here for IMO to comment, discuss and speculate.

Did you see my PC questions? You may have answered so apologies if you have I am trying to catch up on posts.

Meaning all information that should be is out there. I'm quickly learning that some people draw too many conclusions from simple statements, as well as miss the entire point and intent of a comment

 

[tresir2012]

Oh heck yes. Morel season here is May. And it gets crazy. Lol. All of us land owners hate it. Folks will literally knock at all hours asking to hunt. They are shameless

That's interesting TY. I didn't realise they were so sought after. I have a couple of POI's who like morel hunting and were possibly at the trail that day so I wanted to find out a bit.

 

[tresir2012]

Meaning all information that should be is out there. I'm quickly learning that some people draw too many conclusions from simple statements, as well as miss the entire point and intent of a comment

Sorry if I have missed your points but for a long time we have been told certain things so perhaps you will understand me wanting to clarify, especially about the swabbing of all those going to jail and some other points you have stated.

 

[momma_k]

That's interesting TY. I didn't realise they were so sought after. I have a couple of POI's who like morel hunting and were possibly at the trail that day so I wanted to find out a bit.

February would be a ridiculous time to hunt. They are either newbies or not really hunting. It is well known by anyone who hunts that is way too early. Warm or not. The ground would still be too cold.

 

[momma_k]

Sorry if I have missed your points but for a long time we have been told certain things so perhaps you will understand me wanting to clarify, especially about the swabbing of all those going to jail and some other points you have stated.

I apologised for that statement being wrong. I was told that and should have verified. After verifying, those headed to the DOC are.

 

[Charlot123]

When I drove out there two years ago, that's the impression I came away with. C.R. 300 was desolate, a woman was walking her dog along there. The old parking area, with the sign for the bridge, went by in a blink of the eye as I drove past at 35 mph.

I try not to sound like a broken record, but you have to know the bridge is back there in the woods, where to park, how to get there, etc. Either BG knew it's there and how to get to it, or did some serious homework before that day, perhaps to include some "dry runs" walking around there.

YouTube uploads pertaining to the bridge had been posted mere months before the murders, whether BG used those as a reference, or even needed to is anyone's guess. The video of the YT user driving to there from Indy came in handy for me.

I read @momma_k ’s posts and thought, my theory of the Monon bridge being the place of spy rendezvous, goes up in ashes, lol. Because the Delphians think it is the local person. However, with Google maps, one can find the bridge, and get there, if someone needs it for whatever reason.

I still can’t imagine that if the LE have enough DNA, they can’t find the person. There are lots of things one can do with DNA alone to narrow down the perp. And if Gedmatch doesn’t have the person’s relatives, there are similar sites in other countries, all the LE need is ask for collaboration. No one wants a killer to stay free. And if the guy was that stupid as @momma_k implies, to leave ample DNA, something doesn’t fit.

 

[tresir2012]

I would also like to add that there are certain apps that immediately delete messages, not saying they were used, just saying I've seen other cases stumped by those. I am unsure as to if LE can retrieve those as some of those encrypted apps have gotten pretty good at it. Anyone know if tech is available to retrieve those?

In a recent murder case, WhatsApp messages have been retrieved going back 90 days completely unknown to the perps that it was possible. They had used it for their murder plans and believed it was 'safe'. The knowledge of what can and cannot be retrieved is not public knowledge regarding many of these apps and certainly i did not know that was possible till i read it here on WS.

 

[Charlot123]

I apologised for that statement being wrong. I was told that and should have verified. After verifying, those headed to the DOC are.

@momma_k , respectfully, maybe things are not that straightforward. Your first post implored the person who had a new POI to call the LE. The rest sounded like the LE had the case, they only needed it to be airtight.

These two parts are conflicting. Either LE need to tighten the case against the suspect, or they need to find one.

You know where the problem lies? Someone may read your later posts and think, oh, they have a suspect, all Delphi knows who he is, the LE are working on the case, he is local, so my own POI who lives in Kentucky is unrelated...and not call. And yet I feel from the tone of your post that the LE would appreciate new leads.

So your first few posts, and the rest, don’t match. I personally think that people should call with leads, but it needs to be emphasized.

 

[sunshineray]

Welcome @momma_k

My honest opinion is perhaps he wasn’t that sloppy because after all he is still at large.

Certainly he was recorded with both audio and video, but unfortunately this hasn’t led to an arrest (yet). Some of us are not sure yet about all this DNA business, meaning:

A) Does the DNA undoubtedly belong to the perp?

And if so,

B) What is the quality and size of the sample as related to its usability.

Moo.

I personally think the DNA was either from under one of the girls fingernails or a molestation of some kind occured and it's touch DNA.

 

[tresir2012]

Knowing not all of you folks are familiar with rural Indiana life, I am going to clarify one time. "Local" here has 2 meanings. It can mean a resident of actual Delphi. But in these parts it also means being from any of the rinky dink towns in the area. To clarify, area here means within 30 miles give or take. In a farming area, we all kind of intermingle.

To clarify, I think everyone is taking the term local and dissecting it too much.

Take it as this.
There is no way someone traveling through on an interstate could have stumbled on it. The nearest interstate is 65 in Lafayette. It is extremely unlikely someone would take a detour of over 30 miles from the interstate to a remote county road on accident or on a whim.
I will no longer comment on this matter, as I think it is taking too much focus away from the true meaning and nature of this case. I get details are important, just not that one. Like I've stated, in low population areas " local" means a lot of things.

Presumably that would also be LE's analysis when saying he is from Delphi or works there or visits. So they also would take a 30 mile radius from the crime scene and class the perp as local to Delphi if he comes from within that circle. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

I read @momma_k ’s posts and thought, my theory of the Monon bridge being the place of spy rendezvous, goes up in ashes, lol. Because the Delphians think it is the local person. However, with Google maps, one can find the bridge, and get there, if someone needs it for whatever reason.

I still can’t imagine that if the LE have enough DNA, they can’t find the person. There are lots of things one can do with DNA alone to narrow down the perp. And if Gedmatch doesn’t have the person’s relatives, there are similar sites in other countries, all the LE need is ask for collaboration. No one wants a killer to stay free. And if the guy was that stupid as @momma_k implies, to leave ample DNA, something doesn’t fit.

If they have DNA, then why no match? He is maybe not already in Codis, he may not be in the ancestry sites either. Or they are bluffing that they have DNA at all or it can only be traced to a maternal line. Are there other possibilities?