Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98(Courtesy of margarita25)

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Rules Etiquette & Information
Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
grayhuze youtube channel

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION

DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.​

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

4) If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

 

[Tricia]

There is a lot to discuss in the Delphi case with all the very big developments.

We have a very strong rule on Websleuths. Do not ask someone to PM you on a discussion thread. Why? You saw what happens on this thread. The thread was almost taken over by people saying "PM ME PM ME". We couldn't keep up with removing the posts.
If you want someone to PM you then what you do is you PRIVATE MESSAGE THEM FIRST and ask them whatever.

You do not stop the whole discussion and ask someone to PM you.

We will be giving long time-outs to anyone who says they have the information they can only share in PM's or words to that effect.

We call that "baiting" and it makes me crazy. It is so frustrating to try and get things under control when someone recklessly posts a cryptic post creating a frenzy of posts asking to be PM'd.
Please be mindful of our rules.
Thank you,
Tricia

 

[momma_k]

What do you think they could be waiting on to build the case?

Maybe waiting was the wrong word. It has to be frustrating to them, but the law has to be followed. Also, there was some very nasty backlash for the first person who was served a search warrant in the case and was cleared. I cannot say for sure, but I truly think they are getting their ducks in a row to prevent another incident like that. If they didn't have any idea, the press releases would be different, and they would have met the outcry for more information to be released.

 

[momma_k]

Are there any people who are positively cleared?

The landowner from the property they were recovered from has been cleared, although jailed after on a probation violation.

 

[momma_k]

If they were scared/not scared, they could have videoed him directly on FB. Made a post. They didn’t. I wonder if it was a random video.

To my knowledge the phone was actually recording the entire time, at some point it may have been put in her pocket.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I really truly believe someone has. I think they are building a solid case as no one wants to see this guy walk. I think that is the reason for some of the more frustrating LE practices and press releases. No one wants whoever came forward to be silenced.

Welcome momma_k. Glad to have a local check in here.
Do the local folks feel safe with this guy still likely on the loose?

 

[Blueberry2720]

Thank you momma_k for your posts, sincerity, and concern. You feel LE has a strong suspect - few questions:

1.) do you know if they are watching this suspect carefully?
2.) Do you believe the community and general local folks like yourself have a common POI, or are they as clueless as most of us here on WS?
3.) Do you think the perp has a history of crime?
Thank you for your time and insight.

 

[momma_k]

Welcome momma_k. Glad to have a local check in here.
Do the local folks feel safe with this guy still likely on the loose?

We may not feel safe necessarily, I myself have given my girls tools to defend themselves, as well as completely denied them access to the more remote areas, unless they are with myself and I am armed.

However, what I can say is we are defiantly going back to our normal rhythms, just with less innocence. We have taught our children to not go out alone, basic self defense, and the entire area where the crime occured is now off limits to anyone. Every park has very visible cameras, and more people carry now.
But out of sheet will and defiance to this *advertiser censored* ( can I say *advertiser censored*?) We are determined to live our lives without fear. Children still walk to the stores, children still walk home, still play in the parks, still enjoy the many creeks and woods we have to offer, just alot more alert.
That said, I do not believe he would attempt again for fear of being recognized and now, caught on surveillance. So I guess I took the long way around to say both yes and no? We have certainly not stopped our way of life. We have all just lost our innocence. Which breaks my heart. I know early on folks criticized the parents. But what people don't understand is that was a part of our way of life we were proud of. We don't lock our doors, we weren't suspicious of folks, we let our children roam and be children. I guess that's a harder question to answer than I thought. Personally? I live within a stones throw of the scene, so yes it's always on my mind.

 

[momma_k]

Thank you momma_k for your posts, sincerity, and concern. You feel LE has a strong suspect - few questions:

1.) do you know if they are watching this suspect carefully?
2.) Do you believe the community and general local folks like yourself have a common POI, or are they as clueless as most of us here on WS?
3.) Do you think the perp has a history of crime?
Thank you for your time and insight.

Yes I believe he is being watched. Yes some do have a pretty good idea, but because of some pretty awful responses to suspicions at the beginning we are all being tight lipped. And honestly no, I don't think so. He was too stupid and sloppy.

 

[Hoosier952]

Firstly, I'm from the area, and I can say without a doubt no one stumbles on that place. It's not marked, it's between 2 private properties, and you have to know how to get there to get there.
There were zero cameras. That video was taken from the victims cell phones.
We are an extremely small very rural community. The mind set here is different. You don't trespass, you know absolutely everyone, and we literally have less than 5 full time officers. Up until this happened, the worst we had encountered in generations was an occasional hunting or kayaking accident. This town is so small you can walk from one end to the other at a leisurely pace in less than 15- 20 minutes. I know. I do it daily with my dog. I came from a bigger city years ago, and it seemed surreal to me for the longest time. It's a homeowner community, with our property having one of a very few rentals, and it's just a little house across our driveway.
The reason they are so sure he was from this area is no one just stumbles upon high bridge. You have to know it to get there, and you have to purposely get there. It's not even an official park.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I've actually driven by the parking area that is now closed more than once and you can see the little stone trail head area from the highway where the footbridge is located. IIRC, there was a wooden sign that said something about the parking area and Monon High Bridge Trail on 300N. I can't remember now exactly what it said because it was before the murders. I was able to use the info from the sign to google what it was and find more information. I was in the area for work for an ag co-op (Ceres Solutions) and that happened to be the way Google told me to take to get from Battle Ground to a farm somewhere between Camden and Flora the first time and somehow drove by there again a few weeks later heading to another farm in the area. So I stumbled upon it. It stands to reason anyone else could as well. I know the sign on 300 is gone now, but it was there when the murders occurred and anyone driving on the highway would likely notice the trailhead/pedestrian bridge and with enough curiosity could find out all the info they need with a simple search.

I'm not a local to Delphi, but live only an hour or so away, in a very small rural community, much smaller than Delphi (<200), but grew up in a town about the same size (3000), so I'm well aware of the mindset. People still trespass even though everyone knows everyone. I have pictures of lots of them on my trail camera, usually shed hunting or mushroom hunting, one guy daring enough to sit in my tree stand who left not two hours before I walked in. No familiar faces, but I also know that I don't really know everyone that lives in the community and I wouldn't be surprised to find out they aren't even that local.

Re: cameras. I was just responding to someone asking about how he avoided cameras, basically stating what you're stating, that there were likely no cameras in the area. Not just in the immediate area around the bridge but throughout the entire town.

 

[momma_k]

I want to say that I am beyond grateful for the welcome, and the information I am providing is both from communication with those involved, or those close to those involved, as well as just local knowledge and a bit of informed gossip. I will not however breach what LE is trying to accomplish by limiting information, as there reasoning is solid. I truly believe they are holding back for all the right reasons.

 

[momma_k]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I've actually driven by the parking area that is now closed more than once and you can see the little stone trail head area from the highway where the footbridge is located. IIRC, there was a wooden sign that said something about the parking area and Monon High Bridge Trail on 300N. I can't remember now exactly what it said because it was before the murders. I was able to use the info from the sign to google what it was and find more information. I was in the area for work for an ag co-op (Ceres Solutions) and that happened to be the way Google told me to take to get from Battle Ground to a farm somewhere between Camden and Flora the first time and somehow drove by there again a few weeks later heading to another farm in the area. So I stumbled upon it. It stands to reason anyone else could as well. I know the sign on 300 is gone now, but it was there when the murders occurred and anyone driving on the highway would likely notice the trailhead/pedestrian bridge and with enough curiosity could find out all the info they need with a simple search.

I'm not a local to Delphi, but live only an hour or so away, in a very small rural community, much smaller than Delphi (<200), but grew up in a town about the same size (3000), so I'm well aware of the mindset. People still trespass even though everyone knows everyone. I have pictures of lots of them on my trail camera, usually shed hunting or mushroom hunting, one guy daring enough to sit in my tree stand who left not two hours before I walked in. No familiar faces, but I also know that I don't really know everyone that lives in the community and I wouldn't be surprised to find out they aren't even that local.

Re: cameras. I was just responding to someone asking about how he avoided cameras, basically stating what you're stating, that there were likely no cameras in the area. Not just in the immediate area around the bridge but throughout the entire town.

Not taken as such. To be clear, that was for the park. Not the actual high bridge area or the area where the creek had to be crossed. As stated by law enforcement it's not an easy area to navigate. I apologise for being unclear.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Yes I believe he is being watched. Yes some do have a pretty good idea, but because of some pretty awful responses to suspicions at the beginning we are all being tight lipped. And honestly no, I don't think so. He was too stupid and sloppy.

Thank you again for your honesty. If you don't think he has a criminal history, could you/would you speculate on his motive?

 

[momma_k]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I've actually driven by the parking area that is now closed more than once and you can see the little stone trail head area from the highway where the footbridge is located. IIRC, there was a wooden sign that said something about the parking area and Monon High Bridge Trail on 300N. I can't remember now exactly what it said because it was before the murders. I was able to use the info from the sign to google what it was and find more information. I was in the area for work for an ag co-op (Ceres Solutions) and that happened to be the way Google told me to take to get from Battle Ground to a farm somewhere between Camden and Flora the first time and somehow drove by there again a few weeks later heading to another farm in the area. So I stumbled upon it. It stands to reason anyone else could as well. I know the sign on 300 is gone now, but it was there when the murders occurred and anyone driving on the highway would likely notice the trailhead/pedestrian bridge and with enough curiosity could find out all the info they need with a simple search.

I'm not a local to Delphi, but live only an hour or so away, in a very small rural community, much smaller than Delphi (<200), but grew up in a town about the same size (3000), so I'm well aware of the mindset. People still trespass even though everyone knows everyone. I have pictures of lots of them on my trail camera, usually shed hunting or mushroom hunting, one guy daring enough to sit in my tree stand who left not two hours before I walked in. No familiar faces, but I also know that I don't really know everyone that lives in the community and I wouldn't be surprised to find out they aren't even that local.

Re: cameras. I was just responding to someone asking about how he avoided cameras, basically stating what you're stating, that there were likely no cameras in the area. Not just in the immediate area around the bridge but throughout the entire town.

I am curious as to where you are from, if I may ask.

 

[momma_k]

Thank you again for your honesty. If you don't think he has a criminal history, could you/would you speculate on his motive?

No. I honestly don't think it's a good idea, and to be honest not entirely sure anyone but the perp knows the true motive. I can say he's nothing short of pure evil.

 

[steeltowngirl]

We may not feel safe necessarily, I myself have given my girls tools to defend themselves, as well as completely denied them access to the more remote areas, unless they are with myself and I am armed.

However, what I can say is we are defiantly going back to our normal rhythms, just with less innocence. We have taught our children to not go out alone, basic self defense, and the entire area where the crime occured is now off limits to anyone. Every park has very visible cameras, and more people carry now.
But out of sheet will and defiance to this *advertiser censored* ( can I say *advertiser censored*?) We are determined to live our lives without fear. Children still walk to the stores, children still walk home, still play in the parks, still enjoy the many creeks and woods we have to offer, just alot more alert.
That said, I do not believe he would attempt again for fear of being recognized and now, caught on surveillance. So I guess I took the long way around to say both yes and no? We have certainly not stopped our way of life. We have all just lost our innocence. Which breaks my heart. I know early on folks criticized the parents. But what people don't understand is that was a part of our way of life we were proud of. We don't lock our doors, we weren't suspicious of folks, we let our children roam and be children. I guess that's a harder question to answer than I thought. Personally? I live within a stones throw of the scene, so yes it's always on my mind.

Thank you momma_k for your thoughtful and honest answer. And yes, it looks like we can call him a *advertiser censored*. And that’s being kind. Any word I would choose to use for this <modsnip> would get **** out.

We are heartbroken for your small town, and the affect on your way of life. People here have followed this case for 2 1/2 years. We continue to pray it’s soon solved, for your community, for the families of Libby and Abby.

 

[momma_k]

I am curious as to where you are from, if I may ask.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I've actually driven by the parking area that is now closed more than once and you can see the little stone trail head area from the highway where the footbridge is located. IIRC, there was a wooden sign that said something about the parking area and Monon High Bridge Trail on 300N. I can't remember now exactly what it said because it was before the murders. I was able to use the info from the sign to google what it was and find more information. I was in the area for work for an ag co-op (Ceres Solutions) and that happened to be the way Google told me to take to get from Battle Ground to a farm somewhere between Camden and Flora the first time and somehow drove by there again a few weeks later heading to another farm in the area. So I stumbled upon it. It stands to reason anyone else could as well. I know the sign on 300 is gone now, but it was there when the murders occurred and anyone driving on the highway would likely notice the trailhead/pedestrian bridge and with enough curiosity could find out all the info they need with a simple search.

I'm not a local to Delphi, but live only an hour or so away, in a very small rural community, much smaller than Delphi (<200), but grew up in a town about the same size (3000), so I'm well aware of the mindset. People still trespass even though everyone knows everyone. I have pictures of lots of them on my trail camera, usually shed hunting or mushroom hunting, one guy daring enough to sit in my tree stand who left not two hours before I walked in. No familiar faces, but I also know that I don't really know everyone that lives in the community and I wouldn't be surprised to find out they aren't even that local.

Re: cameras. I was just responding to someone asking about how he avoided cameras, basically stating what you're stating, that there were likely no cameras in the area. Not just in the immediate area around the bridge but throughout the entire town.

I also should have clarified that for the most part locals will not trespass, as most folks know who's land they would be on, and especially in mushroom season if they are caught, and you have signs they are really cracking down. People go nuts over those mushrooms.

 

[momma_k]

Thank you momma_k for your thoughtful and honest answer. And yes, it looks like we can call him a *advertiser censored*. And that’s being kind. Any word I would choose to use for this *** would get **** out.

We are heartbroken for your small town, and the affect on your way of life. People here have followed this case for 2 1/2 years. We continue to pray it’s soon solved, for your community, for the families of Libby and Abby.

Thank you for your kind words. We all just want justice, and what you folks do here is amazing, and appreciated.

 

[BNA]

Especially the eye asymmetry.

3D cranial nerve palsy. Diagnostic and serious.

Is anyone seeing what I finally started seeing on the video? BG walking - is it possible that his gait is totally OK, no neuropathy, no limping, but he has something like OCD, or tics, that makes his gait so odd?

What I see him doing now is intentionally touching/ hitting the ankle of L foot with the heel of the right one. Like, you know, some people try not to step on the pavement cracks when walking, or periodically touching a wall with one hand, or some other odd mannerisms... OCD, nothing else?

With OCD, such gait might appear - disappear randomly, it usually goes away when the person is distracted. I was wondering, how could someone run so fast with neuropathic gait? But it might be normal, and then OCD would kick in.

OCD mannerisms are not totally "on a whim", not "voluntary", or rather, they are, but aren't, because the condition is ego-dystonic, but they can go away, and definitely, they can change. If it is OCD, he may very well be not walking like this now.

I wonder if one should look for someone who had such gait as a child, at school. If they think he grew up here, ask teachers at Delphi Middle and HS, and in the surrounding area, too? Or have some other odd mannerisms, or maybe have tics? The person would not blend in, but the condition might not be there now. He'd definitely look very odd during the OCD flare up. I found Gray Hughes' video, but there is one on Carrol County FB, too.

Of all motor compulsions, I found only tapping here, but IRL they can be so bad... Think of a person crossing-uncrossing the street. And yes, there is some genetic link to religiosity, but the gene causing both, actually, is responsible for "fear of making mistakes". (Perfectionism because people feel intense shame).

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) - HelpGuide.org

IOW, the perp might be somebody who has suffered a head injury....for example...or some other neurological deficit(s)?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I also should have clarified that for the most part locals will not trespass, as most folks know who's land they would be on, and especially in mushroom season if they are caught, and you have signs they are really cracking down. People go nuts over those mushrooms.

Was it mushroom season there in February? I’ve wondered that for quite a while and couldn’t find clear answers by just googling.