Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

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TL4S

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Delphi investigator: We wont leave any stone unturned

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[ When certain violent crimes occur anywhere in the country – like murder or assault – police departments enter very specific information about those crimes into a secure system run by the FBI.

That system then looks for potential connections to other crimes.


The process is always working, comparing tips received about the Delphi murders with other cases across the country. Investigators say those tips and the system has already produced a number of leads in the case.

“People accuse of us not giving the information, well, it’s need to know basis and the people that need to know it have access to it,” Holeman said. “Other departments can find out what they need to know, and we definitely share,” Holeman said.

The system then alerts investigators in Delphi and the other city that their crimes could be connected.

“If there are similar crimes out there, we’ll share that information with who needs it – but not social media or the media or anybody else.” ]
 

Elsa Johanssen

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I always thought it was impossible, but now I think, someone who lives between Evansdale and Delphi and has friends in Delphi whom he visited, is possible. The distance between Evansdale and Delphi is 5 . 6 hours, so anywhere 2-3 hours from Evansdale and 2-3 hours from Delphi is possible.
My only “but” is that the BG seems young, and two murders of this type require an older man, but I might be wrong age-wise.
Thanks Charlot123 - yes agree. I am now of the belief that the 2nd sketch is wrong. The guy was in his late 40s and had knee surgery or some kind of a knee issue. Even though the bridge was hard to walk on - there's something about that knee. And MOO..it's not a young voice.
 

Charlot123

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Thanks Charlot123 - yes agree. I am now of the belief that the 2nd sketch is wrong. The guy was in his late 40s and had knee surgery or some kind of a knee issue. Even though the bridge was hard to walk on - there's something about that knee. And MOO..it's not a young voice.

I read more about Evansdale murders, but I can not find the bridge? There is Seven bridges park, but no specific bridges mentioned.
 

Elsa Johanssen

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I read more about Evansdale murders, but I can not find the bridge? There is Seven bridges park, but no specific bridges mentioned.
Yes, you are correct. I am just seeing some themes - sorry that was not exactly on point. But "Bridge Guy" ...seems like this guy is building a profile for himself. If I were LE, I would look at suspects that live between those states or have ties.
 

Charlot123

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Yes, you are correct. I am just seeing some themes - sorry that was not exactly on point. But "Bridge Guy" ...seems like this guy is building a profile for himself. If I were LE, I would look at suspects that live between those states or have ties.

Have ties, I’d say. Or relocated from Delphi to Davenport or Cedar Falls, for example. I think with IA, you don’t need to know the terrain of the Seven Bridge Park that well, you need to know the girls. With Monon Bridge, you seem to need to know certain details to get down the hill.

ETA: I think what doesn’t fit is the gait. They (LE) might have placed someone close enough, but the person has normal gait. It could have been the guy’s father, or a cousin, someone they don’t know but who could have been connected to Delphi via a kid (who is innocent), and have unusual gait due to neuropathy.
 
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Aydrianna523

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This article about the FBI releasing a list of behavioral clues to look for regarding BG was a week or so after the murders. But I'm guessing the FBI was involved right away with local and state LE requesting their assistance.

FBI releases list of behavioral clues to help track down suspect in murders of teens near Indiana trail
The FBI said something about recognizing clothing. I'd think that BROWN sweatshirts aren't as common as other colors in stores...unless it's Ohio St Buckeyes.
What say any farmers here? Is brown a common color in places such as farming surplus stores?
Of course it might not be a brown sweatshirt...
 

Charlot123

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The FBI said something about recognizing clothing. I'd think that BROWN sweatshirts aren't as common as other colors in stores...unless it's Ohio St Buckeyes.
What say any farmers here? Is brown a common color in places such as farming surplus stores?
Of course it might not be a brown sweatshirt...


@Aydrianna523 , I think it was a hat, not a sweatshirt. Rather thick, so in one film I think I see something like a crease in the back of it.


If it is a hat, the person wearing it might be bald, or have thin hair. This hat changes our perception of the face as well.
 

tresir2012

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I get what you're saying but I, respectfully, disagree too.

LE rarely give details about active cases. They keep the Evansdale details close to their chest too - it doesn't say anything about what kind of evidence they have. Could be DNA, could be touch DNA, could be no DNA at all (although I doubt that). They did exclude Etter so they must have something. Who knows, we won't know until either they give up or they solve this case. MOO.
When did they exclude Etter? I don't think that has happened AFAIK?
 

tresir2012

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Thanks Charlot123 - yes agree. I am now of the belief that the 2nd sketch is wrong. The guy was in his late 40s and had knee surgery or some kind of a knee issue. Even though the bridge was hard to walk on - there's something about that knee. And MOO..it's not a young voice.
The second sketch is not wrong. It has been put out on the FBI and ISP site and is the face of the guy on the bridge age range 18-40 . The old sketch is no longer a POI.
 

Boxer

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Posting this again, Sgt Riley of the ISP states they have talked to well over 1100 persons.
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

If I look up Carroll County in Wikipedia: Carroll County, Indiana - Wikipedia

The estimated population in 2018 is 20127. 1100 is roughly 5% of the population. But if can assume half the population is 40 or under (40.9 median age per Wikipedia) and only half of those is male this leads to roughly 4900 persons. (Almost 99.5% were not Asian, American Indian or African American.) They state that roughly 32% have a child under the age of 18 living in home so maybe we are down to about roughly 3400 males between 18 and 40. And not all of these have dark hair.

Now to be sure these are very rough numbers based on Wikipedia and not exact. To be sure LE has no doubt talked to women and persons under 18 and over 40 who might be witnesses or providing info. And we know they have looked outside the county. So all of these 1100 are not in Carroll County or males between 18 and 40 yo because I lack the hard data and percentages.

But still, 1100 persons and we have a county with approximately 3000 to 4500 possibilities. Then we add over 40K in tips - maybe close to 45K now - video, audio, possible witnesses seeing BG that day, a sketch and some of the most publicity I've seen in a murder case. This doesn't include the possibility of DNA. And there is STILL no arrest? Outside of the guy who was caught on video parking Jennifer Kesse's car the day of her disappearance, this guy has got to be luckiest I've seen so far. I'm not certain to what level this killer is organized, if he is organized at all, but so far he has been very lucky.

Agree, lucky.
The kind of luck shoplifters have. Noticing no one minding the store, taking immediate action and departing.
BG thread his presence closely between two other hikers that we know of.

The historical rails to trails society rail guy and the hobby photographer.

The trail society guy is also called flannel shirt guy who heard a "couple arguing."
To me it is another behavioral clue to BG. being a very young assailant. Getting away with tagging, vandalism, shoplifting etc. is done by taking bold impulsive action, and knowing that authorities are slow.
 

Aydrianna523

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Agree, lucky.
The kind of luck shoplifters have. Noticing no one minding the store, taking immediate action and departing.
BG thread his presence closely between two other hikers that we know of.

The historical rails to trails society rail guy and the hobby photographer.

The trail society guy is also called flannel shirt guy who heard a "couple arguing."
To me it is another behavioral clue to BG. being a very young assailant. Getting away with tagging, vandalism, shoplifting etc. is done by taking bold impulsive action, and knowing that authorities are slow.
Certainly another odd thing....he knew there were multiple witnesses but he still went ahead and committed the crime(s).
 

BNA

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Dear @Charlot123,

Yes: Deep, profound, and absolute...fear!

What if... (just putting this "out there" -- perhaps just wild, but... there do seem to be a few other cases here on WS that have semi-"wild" aspects to them)...
  • the person responsible for taking Abby's and Libby's lives is well-known in the area?
  • that same individual is not only well-known, but the least-likely suspected individual in town/the area?
  • the least-likely suspected individual works in a "highly esteemed" occupation (i. e., helping others, providing goods/services that seem as far removed as night is from day from a double homicide)?
  • the person who committed this crime has mental health issues of which few individuals have knowledge (other than his immediate family/personal therapist -- who would be protected by HIPAA)?
  • the person who did this horrible deed has access to family/friends whose high net worth who can instantly cover "big dog" attorney fees (say, criminal lawyers in Indy or Chicago) -- including the possibility of filing for slander against any LE department who might make a move? (This is so scary a possibility, I hate to even consider it, but...)
  • the person who has done these evil things has been checking WS regularly to find "new" ways to obstruct justice/think of yet more alibis? (another horrible thing to consider, but...)
I'm totally "in" with everyone here who believes that justice will be served for Abby and Libby. Just eager to see it happen... but continuing to posit possibilities while in the "holding pattern". There is always hope! (nods to a well-known WS member for that great concept! :))
Yep. Yep. Yep......

Not only well known in the Delphi community, though: Well known statewide. And, somewhat well known nationally.

There's a reason why the initially highly visible support from statewide and national LE became invisible. Nobody should be surprised if it is eventually revealed that some of those folks have a history of hanging out with the perp at public events (not realizing what he is capable of), etc. and/or that the perp or somebody close to the perp was comping them to those events for years prior to the murders. Now, some of them at least, have a sinking feeling in their hearts about how this is going to turn out. JMO.
 

Ozoner

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Yep. Yep. Yep......

Not only well known in the Delphi community, though: Well known statewide. And, somewhat well known nationally.

There's a reason why the initially highly visible support from statewide and national LE became invisible. Nobody should be surprised if it is eventually revealed that some of those folks have a history of hanging out with the perp at public events (not realizing what he is capable of), etc. and/or that the perp or somebody close to the perp was comping them to those events for years prior to the murders. Now, some of them at least, have a sinking feeling in their hearts about how this is going to turn out. JMO.
Somewhat well-known nationally? Color me confused; I doubt there's anyone in the Delphi community who's well known nationally.

Still, there are people out there who excel at projecting a completely fabricated persona. Jimmy Swaggert is one who comes to mind.
 

Charlot123

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The second sketch is not wrong. It has been put out on the FBI and ISP site and is the face of the guy on the bridge age range 18-40 . The old sketch is no longer a POI.

40 is OK. 40 means he was 33 in 2012. 30 is OK. But most of my POIs are younger, and probably could not pull double murders in 2012.

ETA. I don’t have a good idea as to how BG feels about murders. But I have the feeling that he despises the LEO in general. He thinks he is much smarter. He might be somewhat aware of the way LE operates, maybe an uncle a cousin is in the LE system? (I don’t think anyone is covering up for him, btw, nor that he gets insiders information. I think LEO hate him. But, BG assumes he is 100 times smarter than them).
 
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Mike Britton

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@PaulaDC I feel your frustration. He'll be identified and we'll all have closure from the horror of this craven act.

@Aydrianna523, I'm down with your thoughts on his brashness. He was on a "mission" and understood himself visible, yet took the chance. This has always seemed like a carefully premeditated seek-and-destroy mission to me, one with a heavy fantasy element to it. I look forward to hearing about the reasons for his brazenness in documentaries for the duration of this offender's long prison sentence.

It makes sense when I picture this crime as a youthful first-try kind of situation. The adjective lucky has been used here by all of us. Doesn't this feel like a kid's luck? A sick, cowardly, deviant man-child who now hides in plain sight.
 
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