Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

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155etta

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I'll give you that. It does look like he has stuff in his pockets or inside his jacket (I've always seen the gun). If he has a weapon or something nefarious in there, than yes, I'd say some premeditation was involved. But that doesn't have to mean he planned it any earlier than the moment he drove by and saw the girls get dropped off. People carry weapons in their vehicles all the time.

I also can't allow myself to simply assume he has what others have called a "kill kit" (I dislike that term so much) just because I know what he ultimately did. For example (and I'm not saying this is what I necessarily believe), what if he was fishing near the bridge when he saw the girls. He could have had a couple of mini tackle boxes in his pockets. I've done that myself. Or he could have extra weight on his belly plus clothing layers. Or a camera. Or a huffing can or other drug paraphernalia. Or booze. Or a wallet and phone. Or a baby goat.

I guess my point is that the video isn't clear enough to keep the devil's advocate's voice out of my head. While I see a gun and whatever else, I can't say for sure that's what's going on. The unpredictably small window of opportunity for the crime, the high risk of being seen or heard, and the possibility of BG crossing the creek with the girls all feels more impulsive than planned to me, but that's just how I see it.

If he's not local and didn't meet anyone on the trails before the girls, he might have thought it was more remote and isolated than it really was.

Edit- spelling
 
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Charlot123

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I fully agree. It's hard to talk about, but it shouldn't be. There needs to be more frankness. To be honest, I don't think BG has any mental disorder aside from being a jerk.

he might have a mental illness, but if he is a vet with PTSD, his responsibility is to get treatment, and take his pills. VA is providing excellent care for the vets. So if he does not ask for help or skips treatment, it is his responsibility.
 

FinePrint

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I feel a vehicle was involved because a vehicle was involved in the PC.

They didnt say it was BG's...but they opened the PC (in which the murders was its purpose) requesting said info.

The likelihood that a killer would chose to leave the area solely on foot...meh...im not buying it.

I presented why I think a car was involved. Perhaps u could present why u think one wasnt?
Wish I could but it’s against TOS, but My opionion is based on a lot of research over the past almost 3 years.

Again I’m not saying it is fact but rather I’m expressing an opinion. Notice in my original post on this matter I started by saying “in my opinion”.

I don’t often have others challenge an opinion, you can take it or leave it. If I said it was a fact I could understand why you may want to challenge me on this but I never said it was a fact.
 

FinePrint

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In my case, a playlist opens. Which one should I listen to?
I don’t know why that video never links right!

Its from 2 weeks ago.... it’s titled “Case Updates, Delphi share your thoughts.”

I think you @Charlot123, should listen to the entire conversation GH had with this caller especially with your interest and knowledge of DNA. I think you will hear some interesting info on that subject. I think he starts talking to this guy around or just after the 2:00 mark.

I’m interested in hearing your take on what was said.
 

Charlot123

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So many murders happen everyday. What is it about this case, the murders of Abby and Libby that attracts so much attention?

Many, many work on this case daily on this main thread and PMs trying to find some small detail that may help to bring this monster to justice.

For me its the taking of innocence, I see a lot of myself in the girls at that age. I would have done the same thing they did that unexpectedly nice day. I would have wanted to go hiking around in the woods, exploring, taking pictures and goofing off with my friend/friends.

Also, just seeing the actual killer waking on that bridge, just before the murders, having that documented by Libby herself just blows my mind...

What has drawn you to this case???

initially, I thought it would be solved so fast... then it led to nothing. Then I hoped the DNA would tell. And now I am shocked about the evilness of the perpetrator. And the fact that there is so much information here, and yet, nada...
 

ScumbagTrav

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Wish I could but it’s against TOS, but My opionion is based on a lot of research over the past almost 3 years.

Again I’m not saying it is fact but rather I’m expressing an opinion. Notice in my original post on this matter I started by saying “in my opinion”.

I don’t often have others challenge an opinion, you can take it or leave it. If I said it was a fact I could understand why you may want to challenge me on this but I never said it was a fact.

Im aware you said it was your opinion.

Typically opinions are based off something real...something true, so i asked...and you have yet to provide anything.

I can take it or leave it? Ill leave it. Thanks.
 

ScumbagTrav

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I don’t know why that video never links right!

Its from 2 weeks ago.... it’s titled “Case Updates, Delphi share your thoughts.”

I think you @Charlot123, should listen to the entire conversation GH had with this caller especially with your interest and knowledge of DNA. I think you will hear some interesting info on that subject. I think he starts talking to this guy around or just after the 2:00 mark.

I’m interested in hearing your take on what was said.

It really is a very interesting call and conversation. Gray kinda put him on the spot, and got some info out of him, didn't he? I wish he would call back in.

Here is a direct link...i think, like you said, its about at the 2 hour mark. @Charlot123 in case u didnt find it in the playlist

 
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mom2chloe

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Not that it matters, but was school also out the Friday before? The 10th? I remember hearing on a video or reading somewhere that it was, but could be mistaken.
This is a valid point. If not a holiday why were they off school? Teacher’s training? We have that in my area for a four day weekend every February eta at least in private school system. Obviously not bad weather as that day was beautiful and hence the girls went hiking...
 

mom2chloe

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I also asked previously ( I thought) whether coaches etc had been cleared? Both girls played sports and musical instruments so are we certain those people were ruled out?
Also if the day of murders was a known day off from school could easily either be a classmate or anyone local who knew the school calendar.
 

ScumbagTrav

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This is a valid point. If not a holiday why were they off school? Teacher’s training? We have that in my area for a four day weekend every February eta at least in private school system. Obviously not bad weather as that day was beautiful and hence the girls went hiking...


I was able to confirm that school was indeed closed the Friday before (Feb 10) as well...
 

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mom2chloe

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I was able to confirm that school was indeed closed the Friday before (Feb 10) as well...
Interesting also that there was a fundraiser that night at 5. Any locals care to weigh in on this fact? Also do we know if the girls were enrolled in the Delphi public school system or did they attend private schools? TIA!
Eta I can’t tell by the screenshot whether this is a public or private school but the fundraiser has me wondering.
 

Ravenmoon

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IMO.
Red head.
Not certain about reddish brown.
Just a natural red head.
I have studied this case harder than ANY other .
I have to state that I am an amature that has about 1000 pieces of this puzzle
I believe in my heart that I have about 700 of these pieces in their proper placement.
I am NO EXPERT
Only an everyday Jill that has stayed up way too late on way too many nights taking notes studying maps. Watching interviews.
IMO, law enforcement has about 998 pieces in place .
They only need 1 or 2 more to bring this guy in .
All my own arm chair speculation and opinion!
Edited by me, cuz my hates me!


Interesting, then "not blue eyes" has some basis perhaps. What about reddish brown hair with blue eyes? Is that likely in your opinion?

ETA here is a link that states red hair and blue eyes is only present in 0.17 percent of the population. That's only 17 people out of 10,000.

Are redheads with blue eyes really going extinct? | Pursuit by The University of Melbourne
 

Ravenmoon

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Me, too. IMO, this would have been impossible to plan. At any point on the trail, on the bridge, below the bridge, during the attack, or on his way out, one or more witnesses could very easily have entered the scene (and possible did). Even when out of sight, I can't imagine there wasn't some noise to be overheard. If he lucked out and nobody saw or heard enough to identify him, it wasn't because he had some kind of control over the trail users that day.

My guess is he deliberated harm somewhere just prior to walking the trail, or somewhere on it, and from there it was simply watching and waiting, taking the opportunity when/if he had the chance. It was still risky, which I think points to impulsivity. Something p*ssed him off, or something tripped his trigger. JMO
Or..religous fueled righteousness?
Just throwing out some different theories.
Total amateur speculation!
 

weepingangel

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Starts at the 2 HOUR mark? :eek:
Is there a written transcript of this does anyone know?


It really is a very interesting call and conversation. Gray kinda put him on the spot, and got some info out of him, didn't he? I wish he would call back in.

Here is a direct link...i think, like you said, its about at the 2 hour mark.

 

Cutiekitty

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I feel a vehicle was involved because a vehicle was involved in the PC.

They didnt say it was BG's...but they opened the PC (in which the murders was its purpose) requesting said info.

The likelihood that a killer would chose to leave the area solely on foot...meh...im not buying it.

I presented why I think a car was involved. Perhaps u could present why u think one wasnt?

I don’t know why @FinePrint thinks the vehicle might not be involved, but I can present a scenario where the vehicle might not have been BG’s transportation, but still important. The driver of the vehicle could’ve met BG at the trail or even just the parking lot, they hung out/spoke, then the vehicle left. LE asked for people that saw the vehicle there between a certain time frame, but didn’t say the vehicle was there during the entire time frame. A while back @MistyWaters suggested the vehicle might’ve had more to do with a witness than BG himself and I’ve thought about that ever since.

My first impression after the PC was that the vehicle was transportation for BG TBH, but I keep an open mind.
 
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