Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

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zencompass

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My daughter has been diagnosed with the most aggressive form of breast cancer and she has 3 little girls aged 6, 8 and 10. It takes tremendous inner strength dealing with the big C, so I will add Becky to my nightly prayers for my treasured daughter.

Dear JudgeJudi,


I join others in prayer for your daughter's full recovery and I share your strength and belief that your daughter will triumph over this.

Your precious daughter and all of your family are in my thoughts.
 
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Charlot123

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I try to visit this thread on a daily basis always hoping and praying to see”Arrested” across the top of the thread. I have a feeling it will be soon Today I was browsing the web just looking at names of people who might have some association to this case and became even more confused. I found 2 people who looked just like the NBG sketch. Neither were anyone I had thought about previously and were certainly not the POI I had in mind- but wow what a resemblance. I decided I am more confused now about this case than ever before. Hoping and praying for the day when there is finally an arrest

Well, sadly, the genetic stock of IN is rather homogeneous, so many people resemble one another enough to resemble the BG. We can not rely on the sketch alone. One has to see them (our POIs) walk, and probably, listen to their speech, too.

Another thing, I came to the conclusion that there is DNA, but It is buried in a mess of other DNAs. And this is why there is a lot of work ahead, but the DNA lifted is not unusable.
 

book-thinker

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Apologies if this has already been posted but I’ve been away from this case for some time.

The sadness just continues for the Patty family.

In December 2018, Becky was diagnosed with endometrial cancer. The cancer is described as an aggressive form that only 15 percent get. There has been surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation.

"It's a win-win situation in my heart. It didn't hit me as hard as it maybe it would have because I thought if I don't beat this, I'm going to be with Libby and wait for my family," Patty said. "And if I do beat this, I get to look for this killer."

During her fight against cancer, Patty looks ahead at the progress in the construction of a memorial park to honor Libby and Abby. She said, "It's not just for us. We hope it will be a healing park — that's our goal. It means Libby will be remembered, Libby and Abby will be remembered. This is it; this is their legacy, and long after we're gone, this will be here, and as long as this is here, their names are here. Their story will be remembered ... That's all we can hope is it some good comes out of it."

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/call-6-investigators/libby-germans-grandmother-speaks-about-cancer-fight-for-first-time-since-delphi-murders

My daughter has been diagnosed with the most aggressive form of breast cancer and she has 3 little girls aged 6, 8 and 10. It takes tremendous inner strength dealing with the big C, so I will add Becky to my nightly prayers for my treasured daughter.
Judge Judi
Prayers for your daughter and her little girls. Please take care.
Sincerely,
Book-thinker
 

sunshineray

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Apologies if this has already been posted but I’ve been away from this case for some time.

The sadness just continues for the Patty family.

In December 2018, Becky was diagnosed with endometrial cancer. The cancer is described as an aggressive form that only 15 percent get. There has been surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation.

"It's a win-win situation in my heart. It didn't hit me as hard as it maybe it would have because I thought if I don't beat this, I'm going to be with Libby and wait for my family," Patty said. "And if I do beat this, I get to look for this killer."

During her fight against cancer, Patty looks ahead at the progress in the construction of a memorial park to honor Libby and Abby. She said, "It's not just for us. We hope it will be a healing park — that's our goal. It means Libby will be remembered, Libby and Abby will be remembered. This is it; this is their legacy, and long after we're gone, this will be here, and as long as this is here, their names are here. Their story will be remembered ... That's all we can hope is it some good comes out of it."

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/call-6-investigators/libby-germans-grandmother-speaks-about-cancer-fight-for-first-time-since-delphi-murders

My daughter has been diagnosed with the most aggressive form of breast cancer and she has 3 little girls aged 6, 8 and 10. It takes tremendous inner strength dealing with the big C, so I will add Becky to my nightly prayers for my treasured daughter.
Praying for your daughter <3
 

Bethan

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A Sudden thought ( after quite a break from this thread) and reading recent posts.

It may seem a silly question, so forgive me if it’s been already covered & I missed it.

I wonder if there have been suicides/unexpected deaths/ or simply any deaths, of men who fall into the age range of the suspect, in & around Delphi in the time period since February 2017.

Do investigators look carefully at all suicides/ unexpected deaths of men within the age range of the suspect?

Would the coroner, or the coroners in surrounding counties/states, be on the look out for BG & alert investigators of each death.

If a person, who was not on the list of potential suspects died ( of whatever cause) would investigators even know?

It would be hard to ask a family, grieving their husband, son, father etc for a DNA sample to exclude their loved one, unless there was strong evidence to warrant this.
 

Bethan

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Apologies if this has already been posted but I’ve been away from this case for some time.

The sadness just continues for the Patty family.

In December 2018, Becky was diagnosed with endometrial cancer. The cancer is described as an aggressive form that only 15 percent get. There has been surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation.

"It's a win-win situation in my heart. It didn't hit me as hard as it maybe it would have because I thought if I don't beat this, I'm going to be with Libby and wait for my family," Patty said. "And if I do beat this, I get to look for this killer."

During her fight against cancer, Patty looks ahead at the progress in the construction of a memorial park to honor Libby and Abby. She said, "It's not just for us. We hope it will be a healing park — that's our goal. It means Libby will be remembered, Libby and Abby will be remembered. This is it; this is their legacy, and long after we're gone, this will be here, and as long as this is here, their names are here. Their story will be remembered ... That's all we can hope is it some good comes out of it."

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/call-6-investigators/libby-germans-grandmother-speaks-about-cancer-fight-for-first-time-since-delphi-murders

My daughter has been diagnosed with the most aggressive form of breast cancer and she has 3 little girls aged 6, 8 and 10. It takes tremendous inner strength dealing with the big C, so I will add Becky to my nightly prayers for my treasured daughter.

Judge Judi, I’m so very sorry to hear about your daughter’s illness. What a very difficult time for you all.

I wish you great strength, to help carry your daughter & her family through the hard times
& to help to make the good times good, creating positive & precious memories for those little girls.

Hoping your daughter’s treatment goes well & that she makes a good recovery.

God bless your family.
 

stattlich1

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A few early morning thoughts.

I wonder if the murderer's mother is alive.

I think law enforcement knows who the murderer is.

LE has indicated they need one last clue.....I wonder what that is.

On a side note, I just finished reading an old book, "In Heaven We Know Our Own". It was written in the mid 1800's and is a tough read, but I found it very comforting.
 

Falling Down

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Its a no from me.

LE doing something tricky like that, I think, would be a defense attorney's dream. Releasing a sketch and saying:

"The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls."

Seems like if the defendant in court looks or looked nothing like that, would be a defense attorney's opening to exploit reasonable doubt. MOO

I agree. They have to be very careful about how they go about the investigation. I'm impressed with the fact that there have been no leaks of anything, and they're being very careful about what information they share.
 

Falling Down

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I think @Falling Down has a post on here describing what that route was like at the time and it sounded pretty impassable. MOO

I was a little confused by what members were discussing up thread
a page or two, but think I have it figured out.

1. C.R. 625 ends and becomes a driveway, that's what is under the bridge. That homeowner was out of town for the Winter season. There is a type of gate by the last house on C.R. 625 which is normally closed and locked that time of year to prevent vehicles from getting down into the gorge on that driveway, and to the house.

2. The old railroad RoW is impassable south of the bridge, it's terribly overgrown. As it gets closer to C.R. 200 it's full of dense vegetation and standing water in the warmer months.

Hope this helps.
 
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Falling Down

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A few early morning thoughts.

I wonder if the murderer's mother is alive.

I think law enforcement knows who the murderer is.

LE has indicated they need one last clue.....I wonder what that is.

On a side note, I just finished reading an old book, "In Heaven We Know Our Own". It was written in the mid 1800's and is a tough read, but I found it very comforting.

My take since almost a year ago is somebody or some people know the identity of BG, whether they've tipped off LE or not is a big question in my mind.

I hope people keep in mind that patience is needed, LE need time to do their jobs in cases like this one.

Even if they've had a suspect for some months now, they have to do a lot of work to make a case that can be prosecuted. It'll be fascinating, I'm sure. They somehow have to make a case for BG having been there at that time, hopefully witnesses who could testify with information which would line up with what LE already know.

Here's the transcript of the April 2019 presser:

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls.

"new information and intelligence"

I had a flash early this year that something had changed in the investigation, a gut feeling. They had a subdued PC at the two year mark, then the April PC with the above transcript indicating a 'change in direction'.

What brought about this 'change in direction' in the case?

I've wondered if BG has been in contact with LE in the past, either in passing or maybe in a manner where he was trying to throw them off, get LE pointed in a specific direction. Could have been he called in a tip very early on. I bring this up because of the abandoned CPS building and its connection to the case. They brought it up over two years after the murders, but not early on in the case. Just kind of puzzles me.

Regarding family of BG...

I've read stories of mothers recognizing their children from fuzzy photographs where the subjects in the photos were not identified. War time photos, etc. Just real off-the-wall type stuff, to me, like "how did she recognize her son/daughter???". It happens. I'm convinced somebody or some people know the identity of BG, they just may not have contacted LE. Someone has to know, after all this time and now there's a video and so much scrutiny of the frames of it. Thanks to the members here ho have broken it down as they have.
 

tresir2012

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Yes. It is based on the idea that law enforcement believes that the killer had to leave the Monon High Bridge trail some way quickly. So a person who has their car parked in a strange area near a building alongside the trail is someone they would like to talk to. It does not mean this is the person that killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German. I think they would just like to talk to this person to either include or eliminate them as being a possible suspect.

No one can state as fact that the man in the new sketch is the same man in the video. As far as I know law enforcement has never been able to enhance the video quality good enough to make that type of claim. I thought Abigail William's mother stated as much on the Dr. Phil show.

So based on an important question associated with the case(Where did the killer park their vehicle?), this is law enforcement's guess based off an eyewitness who thinks they saw the man who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

If law enforcement cannot enhance the video to get a good description of the suspect, what else can they do but guess with eyewitness accounts from people that were out there on the Monon High Bridge trail that day?
I'm pretty sure LE stated in the April press conference that the new sketch is the face of the guy on the bridge and that he is responsible for the murders. They cannot be clearer about this IMO.
 

Torch Carrier

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My take since almost a year ago is somebody or some people know the identity of BG, whether they've tipped off LE or not is a big question in my mind.

I hope people keep in mind that patience is needed, LE need time to do their jobs in cases like this one.

Even if they've had a suspect for some months now, they have to do a lot of work to make a case that can be prosecuted. It'll be fascinating, I'm sure. They somehow have to make a case for BG having been there at that time, hopefully witnesses who could testify with information which would line up with what LE already know.

Here's the transcript of the April 2019 presser:

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights



"new information and intelligence"

I had a flash early this year that something had changed in the investigation, a gut feeling. They had a subdued PC at the two year mark, then the April PC with the above transcript indicating a 'change in direction'.

What brought about this 'change in direction' in the case?

I've wondered if BG has been in contact with LE in the past, either in passing or maybe in a manner where he was trying to throw them off, get LE pointed in a specific direction. Could have been he called in a tip very early on. I bring this up because of the abandoned CPS building and its connection to the case. They brought it up over two years after the murders, but not early on in the case. Just kind of puzzles me.

Regarding family of BG...

I've read stories of mothers recognizing their children from fuzzy photographs where the subjects in the photos were not identified. War time photos, etc. Just real off-the-wall type stuff, to me, like "how did she recognize her son/daughter???". It happens. I'm convinced somebody or some people know the identity of BG, they just may not have contacted LE. Someone has to know, after all this time and now there's a video and so much scrutiny of the frames of it. Thanks to the members here ho have broken it down as they have.
I love this post!!!!! ^^^ Thank you. Appreciate all of your input these past 2.8+ years. You know how to put words together pretty cleanly. Fascinating is right.
 

Torch Carrier

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It is interesting they opened the 4/22 PC so abruptly with the car at abandoned building between 1 to 5 p. They MUST know BG was there. So, BG's response (or lack thereof) will be quite telling.

No response? He's fearful. Guilty conscience.

Eager reponse? He feels compelled to act normal and contact LE, since he WAS there. Now they've got him in the interview hotseat!
 

Falling Down

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It is interesting they opened the 4/22 PC so abruptly with the car at abandoned building between 1 to 5 p. They MUST know BG was there. So, BG's response (or lack thereof) will be quite telling.

No response? He's fearful. Guilty conscience.

Eager reponse? He feels compelled to act normal and contact LE, since he WAS there. Now they've got him in the interview hotseat!

Good point, it may not be a gentle suggestion. Very well could be LE has a good description of the vehicle. There had to have been dozens of people who saw a vehicle there, while driving by on C.R. 300 between say 11:30 and 3:30, as well as trail users. I would imagine people walking across Freedom Bridge from the parking area on the other side of 25 had to have seen a vehicle parked along 300, too.

I have a hard time believing they don't have a decent vehicle description, from a bunch of witnesses. In fact the vehicle would have been parked there when KG dropped the girls off, so she would have seen it, too.
 

tresir2012

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A Sudden thought ( after quite a break from this thread) and reading recent posts.

It may seem a silly question, so forgive me if it’s been already covered & I missed it.

I wonder if there have been suicides/unexpected deaths/ or simply any deaths, of men who fall into the age range of the suspect, in & around Delphi in the time period since February 2017.

Do investigators look carefully at all suicides/ unexpected deaths of men within the age range of the suspect?

Would the coroner, or the coroners in surrounding counties/states, be on the look out for BG & alert investigators of each death.

If a person, who was not on the list of potential suspects died ( of whatever cause) would investigators even know?

It would be hard to ask a family, grieving their husband, son, father etc for a DNA sample to exclude their loved one, unless there was strong evidence to warrant this.

I guess they actually did that with PE who shot himself.
 

tresir2012

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A few early morning thoughts.

I wonder if the murderer's mother is alive.

I think law enforcement knows who the murderer is.

LE has indicated they need one last clue.....I wonder what that is.

On a side note, I just finished reading an old book, "In Heaven We Know Our Own". It was written in the mid 1800's and is a tough read, but I found it very comforting.
I would imagine she is alive because of the fairly young age range of BG being 18-40. So mum could be around 35-80 IMO.

Could all mothers over 30 in CaCo be asked for a voluntary DNA sample? How effective could that be?
 
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JDough

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No one can state as fact that the man in the new sketch is the same man in the video. As far as I know law enforcement has never been able to enhance the video quality good enough to make that type of claim. I thought Abigail William's mother stated as much on the Dr. Phil show.
RSBM

Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully....

During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary, as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls....
DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights
 
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