Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. jhny

    jhny Active Member

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    IMO Because LE finally determined who BG is & on the surface he is a productive citizen. I believe the April presser's purpose was to push one of the two sketches to confess & make prosecution go smoother. DC was agitated & disappointed that BG would have committed murders. DC's explanation of the two sketches was vague. he was not going to state that 2 people were involved. that is my theory.
     


  2. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    For reference...

    Found this video from May 2017, a gentleman drove from Indiana Packers to C.R. 625, where the county road turns into a private drive:

     
  3. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    I've come to believe the April PC, while it did indicate a different direction, was designed to put some psychological pressure on the killer in hopes that he would do something dumb while he felt the pressure. I don't believe LE has a clue as to who this killer is, but I applaud their effort in that PC. Unfortunately, I don't believe this killer is suspected by anyone and he probably lives alone. That is, no one missed him on that day. And if he lives 1.5 to 3 hours away now, those around him aren't making the connection. And if that new sketch is correct, who is going to remember that someone else wasn't around 26 months earlier?

    Back to the April PC. In the Heidi Childs/David Metzler murder case, Montgomery County Sheriff Tommy Whitt had a PC 3 years after the murder announcing, “We have DNA evidence. We are actively and aggressively pursuing you. We will not rest until you are apprehended.” That was in 2012 and they seem to be no further along in 2019. The April PC in this case reminds me of the Childs/Metzler PC in 2012. To put pressure on the killer. I hope the results are better.
     
  4. jhny

    jhny Active Member

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    IMO BG is a respected community leader & volunteer. other killers have used this cover. this one reminds me of BTK.
     
  5. minazoe

    minazoe Well-Known Member

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    shudder
     
  6. Fizzle

    Fizzle Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about vlogging. I think the video was a snapchat video. My main reason for thinking this is because my teen girl uses snapchat often and I know Libby posted the 2:07 pic in snapchat. I've seen snapchat videos used in a number of ways by the kids... to be funny, to document things that they're doing, and even just to send video messages to friends (can send to one person). My daughter was watching a SC video the other day from a friend and it went on and on and on... just imagine a long voice mail but you can see the person. So, if Libby was taking a SC video of them crossing the bridge, it makes sense to me that it would capture the girls' chitchat followed by the appearance of BG.
     
  7. Fizzle

    Fizzle Well-Known Member

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    Thanks... I'd wondered how you would get to the other side.
     
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  8. Cutiekitty

    Cutiekitty Well-Known Member

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    Back then SC videos weren’t as long as they are today, but that video of BG on the bridge isn’t exactly all that long either. There could be multiple short SC videos actually.

    I go back and forth - SC video or regular video. SC makes more sense due to their age and the fact that she had it open shortly before the video. She could’ve had things set to save to memories and camera roll or just memories and never had to post it.
     
  9. pixiepixel

    pixiepixel Active Member

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    Hey elysian2, welcome to the forum! I'm also fairly new here.

    JMO, but I am 100% convinced that the girls did not know or recognize BG. Libby was smart enough to record him when she felt something was off - if she recognized him, surely she would have mentioned who he was, either to Abby or the recording directly. "Hey, isn't that John Doe/the weird guy we saw at the park last week?" That sort of thing. IMO this also rules out the catfishing theory. If the girls were going to Monon to meet an internet [boy]friend and saw BG instead, that would also be mentioned.

    Abstract plurals are fairly common in LE-lingo. Even if they had one specific person in mind, using "person" over "people" could tip their hand and let BG know how much they know, etc. MOO, I think LE is not considering a two-perp angle right now. At the April PC, they went to such lengths stressing that there was only one person speaking in the recording, new sketch = BG in video, etc. Seems like they wanted to avoid people thinking that OBG and NBG are distinct persons and co-collaborators.
     
  10. elysian2

    elysian2 Member

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    Yes, that's exactly what I feel. If the girls knew the man who they filmed approaching them, even vaguely, it would have been either mentioned by them in their audio, or it would have been heavily implied - by which I mean, you would react differently to someone you knew approaching you, even if you were surprised and slightly alarmed to see them, than you would to someone you didn't know. MOO, but if I knew someone who was coming up to me and I was slightly fearful as to why, I think I'd probably use their name as a pacifying tactic. Kind of "Hey George (or whoever), how are you?", something overtly pacifying/friendly to try to head off any angst I felt or even, if I felt in real danger and had the presence of mind to record, to place on record who it was. Granted I'm a grown woman writing that from a place of safety, not a young teen facing danger, but I think the same instincts would apply. Unless of course the killer was in disguise, but JMO I don't think that was the case.

    I also feel certain that if they had gone there to meet someone - anyone, for any reason - that would have been clear from the chit-chat in the audio. Even if they didn't mention a name, the intent would have been clear. They would have been chatting about what they expected from the encounter, what had led up to it. I just can't see that they would have planned a clandestine meeting and not mentioned it at all during the chit chat which was recorded. And I think LE would have mentioned, if it was clear from the audio, that the girls intended to meet someone, even if LE either didn't know who or didn't want to reveal who.
     
  11. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    I think that any investigation has many “arms”. The simplest explanation- some forensic results came back, not supporting their initial theory. DNA results could have been received.

    Another one - someone who was supposed to do a certain part of job (i.e. check on that car...) might have been less than diligent, and two years down the road, they suddenly realized, OMG, the car...

    Also, someone they suspected, such as DN, was ruled out, and they were back to square one.

    Also, they might have gotten a tip, or a couple. Someone got arrested, and, to minimize own term, “sold” the information he/she witnessed. Or, the perp. trusted someone, and that someone appeared to be conscientious.

    Or maybe, all these chips started falling suddenly at the same place...
     
  12. sleuther0192837465

    sleuther0192837465 Stand up for what is right even if you stand alone

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    Just throwing this out there, since back then we didn’t know about the vehicle LE was looking for until the April PC:

    I remember back when DN was a POI. We all tossed around theories of what would have been similarities in Tim Watkins’ case & Libby & Abby’s that made IN LE go out there to talk to LE about DN.
    Could it have been the type of car DN was driving??? Obviously, there were other similarities, but since we have no idea what those were, maybe since we do know LE is asking about a vehicle being parked at the old Welfare building, we can at least ponder that for a minute?
    MOO
     
  13. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    I think it is this aspect of the case that caused LE to come out with the 2nd sketch released in April 2019. LE is trying to determine how the killer not only left the Monon High Bridge Trail area, but also how he left the immediate area surrounding it without being seen. So a car parked in a place so that it looks like it is trying to avoid being seen by witnesses is key to the investigation.

    But LE asking for information was so vague for a vehicle from over 2 years ago that I do not know how anyone could help them out after such a long time. Also, the car seen by the eyewitness could have parked there for any number of reasons. Maybe the person felt they had a car problem and pulled off right there to check a tire or something else on their vehicle?

    The other concerning part is the eyewitness. Maybe the sketch and the car are not related to the same eyewitness, but I think they are. Don't you really have to question any eyewitness who can provide a description to police for a sketch, but cannot remember the make and model or license plate of a car?

    I think this case has so many tips that LE thought the best thing to do was to go in a direction with the investigation that was based on answering a major investigative question. I understand why they took this approach, but I would be cautious about the conclusion it is based on. Only time will tell if they are correct.
     
  14. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I think an unaccounted for car near the trail head sounds like an error of original police work.
    Or maybe police saw a car in a satellite photo and then realized a sighting of it never came up in witness canvassing.
     
  15. ACE422

    ACE422 Well-Known Member

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    :(
     
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  16. PezCandy

    PezCandy With brave wings she flys

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    I still wonder about the possible similarities between the girls and the Watkins case still as it still gets thrown around now and then.
     
  17. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    I recall that police said the assailant was getting frustrated with the girls by the time he said "down the hill." There had to be some reason for that interpretation.
     
  18. BradB

    BradB Well-Known Member

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    Why nothing after all this time though is what I ask? They cant even confirm if PE is linked or give updates?

    Do they really have people working the case? What can we do different? If anything?

    It feels like a cold case to me.
     
  19. bradfordsleuth

    bradfordsleuth Well-Known Member

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    All speculation:

    One small similarity between this case and T.W.'s is that when Tim Watkins was murdered in Colarado his shoe was found first, then his bike, next his wallet contents were found scattered and finally his body was found three days later.

    Murder on a Mountain Bike

    "A local search party formed; around 2 P.M. on Saturday, a volunteer found a cycling shoe on the side of Mount Herman Road, three feet from an upright beer can and not far from the popular Limbaugh Canyon Trail. Ginger confirmed that it was her husband’s shoe—a size 42 Pearl Izumi. Years ago his feet had been disfigured in an accident, and he almost never took a step without his shoes on. She figured he couldn’t be far."

    As we know, Libby's shoe was also found first on the private road/driveway. (Linked previously in several threads.)

    We have been told that the searchers followed a set of footprints and then located the girls.

    2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

    " The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer . Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found."

    We don't know how soon after finding the shoe, but I imagine it wasn't too long.

    In Tim's case, it was like a following a trail of breadcrumbs before they located him, although it took 3 days.

    It could have been the same in Abby and Libby's case.

    We don't know where Libby's phone was found.....although it is my opinion that she kept it hidden the whole time.

    < modsnip - scanner info not permitted on main threads>

    Maybe this was similar enough to catch LE's attention, along with possibly the murder weapon thought to be used in both cases?

    DN similarity to sketch #1 and being tied to both states was also obviously a factor.

    Just thinking out loud...and JMO
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2019
  20. tresir2012

    tresir2012 On Time Out

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    Why have police not found man who teens filmed before their murder?

    This is an article that I had not seen before from Sept 2019. It mentions the girls being found side by side and covered in undergrowth.


    "Their bodies were hidden in the undergrowth on a remote hiking trail near their hometown of Delphi, Indiana, in the American Midwest.

    [​IMG]

    They had been placed alongside one another, and although police have not released any details of the cause of death, it was clear they had been murdered.

    Abby and Libby’s deaths reverberated through the small town, because it was unlikely that anyone other than a local would have known about the track the girls were walking on that day."
     
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