Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    We are all confused but we have to ignore the old sketch based on what LE have said. That appears to be what their later "clarifications" indicate. :)
     
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  2. bradfordsleuth

    bradfordsleuth Well-Known Member

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    RE: Carter's reference to the movie The Shack

    There have been several things that have stood out to me about this reference Carter made and none are directly related to religion, as I am looking at this from a different angle. Perhaps parallels between this crime and the movie can be theoretically drawn if one looks hard enough for them.

    All JMO and thoughts here.....

    the serial killer aspect (we have often compared this case to Elizabeth and Lyric's case in Iowa) this has been contemplated here many times. I believe that the 6000 billboards in 46 states early on demonstrates the possibility that LE did not consider this to be just a 'local person' in plain sight in the beginning.

    there was a 'signature' left behind (a ladybug pin, the SK had been named 'Little Ladykiller') Could the killer in Abby and Libby's case have left something behind deliberately as a message to LE that they had left at another crime scene previously? A letter? An item?

    the killer marked a 'trail' for LE to follow (red arcs on trees and rocks) Just musing, could something similar have occurred in Abby and Libby's crime as well? Something that was found after the crime scene was secured that LE discovered?

    the discovery of Missy's clothing inside a Shack (a possible second crime scene where personal items belonging to the girls had been found which has been kept 'under wraps' in msm?)

    one of Missy's shoes was found in the bushes had been kicked off in the struggle while she was being abducted (Libby's shoe had been found on the private road/driveway prior to the discovery of hers and Abby's bodies )

    Just putting some of these thoughts out there as the religious aspect has been much-discussed here, but some of these other ideas have either only been lightly touched on or maybe not discussed at all.

    The possibility of a 'copycat' has been mentioned in other circles as well. Could the killer in this crime have tried to 'copycat' certain aspects from the book/movie The Shack?

    All JMO, speculation and thoughts that popped into my head when I read some of the posts before mine.

    Edited for grammar and clarity
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  3. busymcmoody

    busymcmoody Well-Known Member

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    There is another option - that he just got off on the thrill.
     
  4. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    Perhaps he was rambling on and talking to himself so his jaw could have been moving or may have been chewing tobacco. Some posters think he moves his head in a spitting motion.
     
  5. taximama24

    taximama24 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely different ways to come at it. DC is a fairly high ranking LE professional, this case is being worked by several prominent LE agencies, the April PC was completely "on the record" direct from LE communication for this case, no way no how could anyone convince me that he went off script from official case business to include something based on his personal faith and emotion. So for me, the mention of The Shack was fully intentional and served a purpose. Based on your summary, we could conclude that the mention of The Shack was their way of letting BG know they know he hid out in a shack for some time, or letting others read between the lines and come to that conclusions. Or they could have been letting BG know that they know they found his bloody clothes in some type of outhouse. Based on what everyone is saying about The Shack being played in the Delphi area or in church groups, or maybe someone close to BG they know was a particular fan of the movie, I think its probably more likely that they are pulling at the faith filled heartstrings of those close to BG to reaffirm their faith and turn BG in so he can repent this mortal sin and be absolved. The timing of the PC being the day after Easter, the holiday for Christians that is centered upon Christ's passion, death, and resurrection so that we may be forgiven for our sins seems more in line with this purpose too. And I'm of the mindset they believe BG or his family have those faith filled heartstrings to pull, or that they are just banking on it because of its prevalence in the area, and he is imploring them to let themselves be guided by their faith into doing what's right.
     
  6. taximama24

    taximama24 Well-Known Member

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    It could also be a reference to the new sketch, which the LE sketch artist has said was drawn within the first few days. For some reason they shelved, and have now not only released it but are certain it is the person responsible for the murders.
     
  7. busymcmoody

    busymcmoody Well-Known Member

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    Possible, although I don't see it. The thing that gets to me is that there must have been something that must have triggered a spidey sense in Libby to take that video. But I keep wondering why she didn't call anyone or dial 911. Maybe she didn't have the chance. Maybe BG didn't look as threatening at first and it was just a weird feeling she had.
     
  8. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    In fact, I think it is either a very thin scarf, or something like a nylon stocking with the opening for the face, that covers the hair and the lower part of the face. I think the guy did not want to shed his DNA, but I think he, eventually, did.
     
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  9. taximama24

    taximama24 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I forgot, I was also thinking that they could have some reason to believe this killing was some type of "punishment" for the girls for some sin BG perceived they committed, and his reference to the girls being "not how you left them" may mean that they are in heaven and do not have the eternal punishment BG felt he may have been inflicting. Again, it seemed like they were trying to provoke a reaction out of BG, and if BG is religious and they know that, they maybe intended to strike a nerve.
     
  10. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    They also checked all the RSO's early on using lie detector and alibis to rule them out IIRC. They could also be referring to that when they say they were onto something early on. Plus, they searched the property of the homeowner where the girls' bodies were found as well as other properties. They appeared to rule out a lot of people early on. JMO.
     
  11. taximama24

    taximama24 Well-Known Member

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    She wasn't able to call once she realized something was nefarious about BG because she had her camera activated. I'm not arguing the hero complex being projected on to Libby, as an innocent victim, but with all due respect to her I'd venture to say I'm not so sure she intended to record this person as evidence per se, I think she was using her camera to be able to zoom in on him and see if they knew him (which is why I think the quality is so horrid, the zoom feature on phone cameras terribly pixelates) or to "watch" him to see if he did anything. I tend to think the first, I think that either they were going there with the intention of meeting up with someone and he didn't appear to be someone they expected so they zoomed in to get a closer look (I've used my phone to try and identify people I wasn't confident was who I was expecting before!) or he did something that surprised them (maybe called their names from far away and they didn't recognize him) and they were confused and wanted to try and figure out who he was before he got closer.
     
  12. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    I think someone needs to interview the local hairdresser. These cuts were incredibly popular among Delphi youths for a few years. Maybe even now. I think the hairdresser could give some ideas, or recognize some "finishing details".
     
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  13. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    I ran across this idea a few times, and if this post is hinting at what I think it is, then, really, why start with two teenage girls? Delphi, as any town, is probably full of people who are committing the same "sin" (not a sin at all in my opinion, but I can see how some would view it).

    No, attacking two very young, unprotected, women, is cowardly. This is all that is to it. He won't ever dare attack two men.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  14. taximama24

    taximama24 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I was not speculating on anything in particular as a sin or even what that potential sin could be, I was speculating that perhaps he considered himself to be administering punishment for something unknown that he justifies as sin based on the impassioned statement "they are not how you left them" and what that could mean to BG. I don't presume any of us would find whatever thought process BG had to justify his murder was logical, I'm just trying to think about different nuggets that might help build the profile of who this is.
     
  15. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Here is some new information about DNA just to explain how difficult the whole issue is, how little we know and why "having DNA" may not be enough.

    Latest news: Fathers can pass mitochondrial DNA to children.

    No one knows how common it is as the cases have been described in conjunction with "mitochondrial disorders". But think of this. Let us say, we have a DNA. And the person is adopted without anyone around knowing it, or it is a non-paternal event. I always thought that "good old mito DNA" is something to rely on. These cases show that, not necessarily.

    Just because of several high-profile cases, don't rely on DNA leading you to the killer. The more we know...

    Fathers Can Pass Mitochondrial DNA to Children
     
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  16. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Either way, he is nuts. And I think he is becoming nuttier. Either drinks, or behaves in a psychotic way, or something else. He is around, but I don't think he is enjoying his life.
     
  17. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    Very much a possibility, plus they're now insisting it's someone from the immediate area or someone very familiar with that part of Carroll County.

    Early on references were made to a possible hitch hiker, and maybe someone carrying a backpack or other bag of some sort or another. I never thought the former, but the latter is a possibility.

    Then the bogus sketch came out and threw people off. I never thought the BG could be much over age 40, yet here we were convinced it was some (using a phrase I've picked up since living here) ate up older middle-aged guy who's angry enough to want to go around murdering teens, when in reality we could be looking at someone around half the age of what we thought.

    I think there's a real possibility LE were thrown off in the beginning, could have been a tip that sounded suggestive in nature, but who knows? I just have a hard time reconciling the vehicle parked by C.R. 300 and LE not mentioning it early on. Just seems weird to me, and one would think they would have wanted to get information about the identity of its owner or whoever was driving it. This is not new information, it was known early on and LE sat on it.

    Which brings to mind another issue, and it just kind of popped into my head. Why wouldn't they be hungry for information on the vehicle and its driver early on, vs. releasing the poor audio released a week after the murders? Not just poor audio, but they released "down the hill" without "Guys". Why not just hold on to the audio for a bit, and instead focus on the vehicle and other pertinent stuff early on? Makes no sense to me.

    No mention of a vehicle for over two years. Even if they had a detailed description, they could have just asked about a vehicle being parked there.

    Here we were thinking BG was some ate up older guy with major issues in his life, when in reality it could be a young-looking and sounding young man. This whole time. 100+ threads later.

    Let this year be the year, for the victims in this case, their families, their community.
     
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  18. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    How sure are they of the height? I think some people might fit, but they are 6'. This description effectively cuts them off. I am not sure it is the case.
     
  19. busymcmoody

    busymcmoody Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the article. We'll see how frequent this really is.
     
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  20. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    Comparisons by some experts here on WS have been made between the general height of BG and the spacing between the boards which run on top of the ties on the bridge. People have gone out there and measured the spacing, then people oriented the BG screen shots released to the public, and figured out a general range of what his height might be.

    I think he's between 5'8" and 5'10", but that's JMO.

    Good post.
     
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