Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. stattlich1

    stattlich1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree, I too would be out there. In this case, who knows WHO all was out there, and doing what? Covering tracks, hiding bodies, destroying evidence, contaminating the crime scene, etc. etc.
     


  2. TL4S

    TL4S Dumbified Clown

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    If drag marks were present along with the set of footprints that led searchers to a shoe, than I would assume that would have been mentioned. Who knows, though. But I also see no reason for the killer to carry the girls across the creek. If he killed them on the south side, why not just hide them there?

    My guess is the shoe was found along the bank or in a shallow, visible spot in the creek. The mud itself could have sucked the shoe off, but the fact that she didn't stop to retrieve it is the most telling. Either she was fleeing, or wasn't allowed to. JMO.

    I also think the footsteps and/or shoe location was heading into the creek because for the searchers, the next logical thing to do is look across the bank with zoom on a camera or binoculars to see where they got out (or the shoe was already on the opposite side and they used the zoom to look around).

    The mention of the girls being placed side by side could hint that they were moved, or staged, but I, personally, think the killer would only have moved them enough to hide the bodies from view. Or he could have made them stand together. Or they were somehow tied together. Or he killed one there and moved the other. Lots of possibilities.
     
  3. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    It can vary very slightly between the States, e.g. in some the age of the child must be under 17 whereas Indiana is 18, but otherwise they're all pretty much the same.
     
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  4. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    BG path from Freedom Bridge start of trail to Monon High Bridge
    -.-

    ends at the red barrier ...... and flowers at the South end of MHB ......
     
  5. TL4S

    TL4S Dumbified Clown

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    Thanks for posting this! So the 1-5pm time frame has sort of been there from the beginning. I do think it's a range they feel encompasses the entire crime from before to after. It's possible, IMO, that the car and the NBG sketch have always been a matching set, so no mention of the vehicle was made early on for the same reason the NBG sketch wasn't released - whatever reason that was.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  6. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    Mike Patty also told Gray Hughes about it, and it was the day they were found:

    "I was getting ready to jump in the creek one day. I had a pair of shorts and tennis shoes. I was gonna go walking and FBI and State Police came up in the area and they said, “No, Mr Patty, we’re gonna be walking that. We’ve got underwater sonar, gyroscopes or something, you know, under water metal detecting capabilities and cameras and stuff”. He said, “We’re gonna walk this whole thing”.
     
  7. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting in that you state you got lost after going in the possible direction of the killer. In spite of the area not being that large. That would seem to indicate this killer seemed to be very familiar with the area. Unless, he has spent a lot of time in forests and is very comfortable in that environment.
     
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  8. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

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    The interview with Tobe posted earlier where he comments about the search. He states it was called off but then states that volunteers, firefighters, LE stayed and continued searching. So what exactly was the point of calling it off in the first place if the majority stayed anyway? Crazy.
     
  9. FrostedGlass

    FrostedGlass Well-Known Member

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    Kyle Keener, reporter with Pharos-Tribune, said this:

    So one would consider that the shoe came off in that struggle. MOO
     
  10. BigTexas

    BigTexas Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to start any rumors as I am just brainstorming here. What if the shoe thing was more sinister. As in BG went into a rage bc Libby was trying to get away. He caught her, and let's just say there was something in that shoe (shudder......a foot). It would keep her from running away any more. *shudder* I hate that I even thought of this.
     
  11. Trebor5591

    Trebor5591 Well-Known Member

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    Were the girls found clothed or unclothed? I ask because Kyle Keener, reporter with Pharos-Tribune, said he saw girls clothing in Deer Creek "...From 75-yards away I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby..."
     
  12. FrostedGlass

    FrostedGlass Well-Known Member

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    It has not been officially said if the girls were found dressed or not. I assume since he saw girls clothing in the creek, one or the other or both were not fully dressed.
     
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  13. sunshineray

    sunshineray Well-Known Member

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    Great post, thanks!

    "Abby and Libby weren't overly concerned about a stranger accelerating in the late going. They anticipated an awkward greeting and nothing else."

    Abby's mom did state in the Renner interview, about being allowed to listen to some of the audio before BG got to the girls. She said Abby voiced something to which Libby responded with a comment saying, but the trail ends up there we can't go that way...her mom goes on to say how the girls certainly weren't going to start crossing back over that bridge until BG finished crossing because there was no room to be on there together. It certainly sounded like Anna felt Abby wanted to physically go away from the approaching BG and then you have Libby starting the recording him after this.

    I think it sounds lije they were uneasy with BG coming their way, nobody else was around. I think for whatever reasons, he made them nervous.
     
  14. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    I've doubted BG did much 'work' during this crime, as in no more work than he had to do. He was in the area for a length of time walking around, doing whatever he did before the abduction, exerting himself in low-40'sF temps.

    Far as a shoe is concerned, I've thought that a shoe may have gotten sucked off of a foot in the muck along Deer Creek where they made it to the north side of the stream. In MSM images from the day of the discovery of the bodies, it's easy to see some deep footprints, as in stuck in the mud prints, where the girls and BG most likely would have walked up the steep, short bank.

    JMO
     
  15. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to wonder if there are some connections we can glean from the April 22nd presser.

    JMO
     
  16. MingyMoo

    MingyMoo Well-Known Member

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    Betting Odds !!!

    MM
     
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  17. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    I don't put any stock in that statement, I've seen his SM post with the image taken from the bridge and there's nothing to it, in my mind. I haven't seen anything else about "clothing in the creek". The other thing is from where he was standing on the bridge he was about 3/8 of a mile from the CS, as the crow flies. Which he would not have known, and the CS can't be seen from the bridge, anyway.

    Sensational, in my opinion. That and I don't know how someone could discern whether an article of clothing from a distance is for a male or female from 75 yards away, unless they could zoom in and focus on it somehow.

    .375 miles = 1980 feet. Just for reference, let's say A&L were left 1800 feet from where he was standing, as the crow flies. Now throw in the sharp bends in Deer Creek, and the clothing being 75 yards (in his words) from him/the bridge, or 225 feet. I have my doubts about the clothing, or what he thought was clothing, or whatever, being related to the crime.

    JMO
     
  18. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger Well-Known Member

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    No problem. I actually entered the thread last night to post the link to my photos, then I noticed they were already linked. Thank you.
     
  19. PezCandy

    PezCandy With brave wings she flys

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    I agree with your post.
    But do keep in mind that tie dye shirts do stand out especially in that season when most grass and trees are still dormant. JMO
    didn’t the person who found zoom in on his camera cuz he heard/seen deer during the search and that’s how he ended up finding them? A brightly colored shirt would stand out more than earth tones.
     
  20. Falling Down

    Falling Down Well-Known Member

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    The post I quoted referred to the reporter who was on the bridge on the 14th, from memory it was not a tie dyed shirt. IIRC, the reporter saw the item in the water before the girls were found. I'll try to find the image.

    JMO
     
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