Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

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18 WLFITV/ interview with DC-ISP from today and his ' "one piece away" from finding the killer' comment:


Video includes this overlay of the old and new sketch:

View attachment 231915

View attachment 231916

ALL IMO

-Nin
We may not have had a press conference today, but we did learn a few things. The one that stands out to me is that LE allowed a transparent overlay of the younger BG sketch to be placed over the older BG sketch and then shown to the public.

This has been the subject of much discussion here and I'm glad to see that LE is not ruling out that BG could be a combination of the two sketches.

To me at least, the composite sketch is striking. I hope someone will recognize him now.
 
We may not have had a press conference today, but we did learn a few things. The one that stands out to me is that LE allowed a transparent overlay of the younger BG sketch to be placed over the older BG sketch and then shown to the public.

This has been the subject of much discussion here and I'm glad to see that LE is not ruling out that BG could be a combination of the two sketches.

To me at least, the composite sketch is striking. I hope someone will recognize him now.
I'm not so sure that it was LE's doing, overlaying the two sketches like that. I think it might have been a producer who snatched on DC's words and said let's do this. The end result overlay was gone in a split second. If it was LE's idea they'd have the end result on screen longer. AJMO
It was very odd seeing that done.
 
I'm sad it has been 3 years today that these precious girls were cruelly taken from their families. I hope that here is some kind of outcome ASAP. I fear that this was botched and we may not see justice for some time.
 
I believe they may have DNA and other evidence that could be beneficial with an arrest, but they do not have anyone in their sights at this time.

They may have a person(s) in their sights but ...

There was a case in Southern California where a man was convicted of burglary based solely on the fact that his DNA was found at the crime scene. He appealed the conviction. The Appeal Court was asked to weigh the question of whether DNA is such convincing evidence, that nothing else matters. The court said No.

While DNA evidence may be considered the same as a fingerprint and can link a suspect to a crime, a criminal conviction requires much more. The criminal justice system depends on irrefutable proof that the defendant was not only present when the crime was committed, but also that he or she in fact committed the crime.

If LE had the murder weapon (and I don't believe they do), DNA can link it directly to the crime. If semen was found, that too can be a direct link. However, if they only have fingerprints, the prosecution must be able to prove that the fingerprints were impressed at the time and not at some earlier date.

In the case of sexual assault, it should be remembered that this can also happen with an object, in which case semen won’t be found, but it's possible that fingerprints could be found on the object. That type of SA is all about power, not sexual gratification. In this case, that sort of crime scene could explain the horror LE felt when the bodies were discovered.

Sgt Holeman said, “At every crime scene, you are going to have DNA. We are still working on identifying all of the DNA that we have there”. It may be from multiple people, and it may all be from family members or friends (Kelsi had friends over the night before). Becky said family and friends had all provided DNA swabs.

Apart from DNA, IMO the missing piece of the puzzle is that they can’t place any known person at the crime scene and that’s why they’re desperately hoping for someone to come forward.

The highest standard of proof is required for criminal convictions, especially in murder cases where the death penalty or a life sentence may be imposed.

Leazenby said, “This one’s just – it’s got a whole new, it’s got a whole twist to it that even I as a 30-year veteran have never seen”.

DC said the girls were "brutally murdered" and described what happened as the "epitome of evil". "Those two girls, once we tell you all we know about them you might understand a little bit more about why it’s so emotional".

I don't think an arrest is imminent at all.
 
I'm not so sure that it was LE's doing, overlaying the two sketches like that. I think it might have been a producer who snatched on DC's words and said let's do this. The end result overlay was gone in a split second. If it was LE's idea they'd have the end result on screen longer. AJMO
It was very odd seeing that done.
I agree, it was meant more as a dramatic effect done by the production team. I am glad someone took a still image of them overlapped, though, because what really stands out is how similar they are. The eyes. The mouth is also the same except for its position on the face.IMO

I'm hopeful that more than one person did indeed see him.
 
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LE has made conflicting, vague, and confusing statements over the years, but I think LE has their reasons for this and I respect that. I'm trying to look at the whole picture in regards to LE's statements. For the time being, these are my beliefs (AJMO):
  • BG does not look like either sketch, but might have elements of both. I think LE believes that the man who was seen by one or more people that day is BG.
  • He's on the older end of the current age range.
  • He parked at the CPS lot and walked the trails that day.
  • He stalked them from the trail intersection to the bridge.
  • He led them to the spot they were killed, but I don't know with certainty if he had control of both of them the entire way between the end of the bridge to cs.
  • There is a gap between when the bridge video was taken and when the audio was recorded, but I don't know how long that was. Seconds? Minutes?
  • There's some usable DNA
These are things I believe based only on personal thoughts:
  • BG is familiar with the 300 rd area itself, and for a reason aside from the trails: work, farming, storage, home/property, friends/family, hunting/trapping grounds, fishing, etc.
  • BG was already on that road for other reasons when he saw the girls dropped off. He parked at CPS and waited until KG drove past before getting on the trail.
  • I don't really think this was planned as a fantasy kill, but more of an impulsive thing. I don't know why I think this.
  • I think there was some kind of sexual element.
  • I don't think the girls knew him.
  • I think he might not have left via the trail system. I think he went north or south through the woods to get back to his vehicle. I just can't imagine him not being too wet, muddy, maybe bloody to risk taking the trail. Could be wrong.
 
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I've always thought that there is someone close to the killer who is simply too terrified to come forward. And with the baying for blood and character assassination on social media, one can sort of understand this.

I wish that there would be a key message that goes out about a "safe space" for this person. That they know they can trust the community not to vilify them by association but to have empathy for them. If I were DC I'd go out and make a simple statement (simple, because his words are parsed every which way) and say: Here is a way you can get in touch with us. We promise to protect you, now and as long as you need it.

If there is a person that knows, I can't think that they don't want to do the right thing. It should be made easy for them to do just that.
 
Police warn of dangers of online sleuthing to solve Delphi ...
Local Source-Fox 59-3 hours ago

I can't open it because of EU restrictions .....

Thank you for posting it! LE warns of social media groups naming and posting anything from accusations to personal information regarding BG. This could seriously slow down the investigation and hurt people, who have nothing to do with the case. In addition LE has their own ways and tools of getting (personal) info. They know more, than the public does and do not want to tip off BG.

Quote:

On social media, accusations fly, including names, pictures and where people work or go to school.

“There are some issues with defamation of character,” Perrine cautioned.

One Delphi group on Facebook has 24,000 members; another on Reddit has 30,000. Countless smaller groups exist boasting thousands of members each.
...

ALL IMO

-Nin
 
I'm not so sure that it was LE's doing, overlaying the two sketches like that. I think it might have been a producer who snatched on DC's words and said let's do this. The end result overlay was gone in a split second. If it was LE's idea they'd have the end result on screen longer. AJMO
It was very odd seeing that done.

Agree! It is just the first time - as far as I recall - that it was done by a MSM TV channel.

-Nin
 
By any chance has anyone suggested that the BG hoodie is actually a Snuggie?

I’ve stayed away from this and all cases because I got too obsessed with a 30-year case. Thank Gid it was finally resolved or I would still be up late at night compulsively researching. So many times a dozen pieces fit with a possible perp and my brain decided I knew who did it. I was wrong—the perp ended up being someone not much on online sleuthing radar. There are just so many people—so many men, especially—who, once you look into them, could be the one. I had to step away.

So here I am, fresh eyes, only learning about this case for a week. I am once again sure I know. It’s crystal clear to me. It’s right there in the sketch, the images, the audio voice.

But again, I know now that the brain plays tricks. I was humbled enough by that last case to know that. Also, in that case, the only named suspect turned out to be innocent. His life was destroyed. In this Delphi case, I have to remind myself that I don’t even know where my own No. 1 possibly bad guy was that day, if he already has a solid alibi.

I understand now why we follow the rules. I think LE is pretty sure they know who it is. But they are professionals. Otherwise we could all be out there holding torches and pitchforks for vigilante justice.

I hope they get the evidence and the witnesses they need.

18 WLFITV/ interview with DC-ISP from today and his ' "one piece away" from finding the killer' comment:


Video includes this overlay of the old and new sketch:

View attachment 231915

View attachment 231916

ALL IMO

-Nin
 
I've always thought that there is someone close to the killer who is simply too terrified to come forward. And with the baying for blood and character assassination on social media, one can sort of understand this.

I wish that there would be a key message that goes out about a "safe space" for this person. That they know they can trust the community not to vilify them by association but to have empathy for them. If I were DC I'd go out and make a simple statement (simple, because his words are parsed every which way) and say: Here is a way you can get in touch with us. We promise to protect you, now and as long as you need it.

If there is a person that knows, I can't think that they don't want to do the right thing. It should be made easy for them to do just that.
I believe DC has said that exact thing. I can't find the interview right now, but I know I've seen him say that he thinks this person is scared but that they will protect them. Anyone have a link?

Either way, it could be stated more often.
 
I don't post much here anymore, but always check and pray that someday there will be arrest and justice for these two promising, intelligent, young ladies that were cruelly deprived of life.

I was watching a program last night about a case in England - they had a sketch and they had an audio recording of the kidnapper of a young lady, similar circumstances in that it was a small town, and they broadcast those on the local Crime Watch show - the ex-wife of the kidnapper called in and identified her ex as the perp. At first, just based on the sketch, she wasn't sure, but when she heard the audio recording that made her certain. It was short as well, just "Do you have the money?"

So I ask myself - what is different here? In a small town, we have a sketch (2 in fact), we have video of him walking, and we have audio of him speaking. How could he not be recognized? I think it's fairly common for ex-wives or ex-girlfriends to be the ones to turn in that final tip, so why not for this killer?

1. He's a loner and never has had or had a wife, girlfriend, or significant other.
2. He's not a local, and despite national coverage, the right people haven't become aware of this case.
3. Those who know him, aren't sure and/or are terrified of him. (If I were LE, I would explore domestic violence cases in the area.)

Another cold case I watched was a young woman in a small town that had been murdered, it turns out by a local boy who went to the same high school or college as her. Two of her friends/acquaintances talked amongst themselves and both immediately thought that the same person was responsible. In fact, many people in the town did, but it wasn't until 20 years later that they turned in the tip and spoke to police. They said they didn't because, they weren't 100% sure, that they felt they couldn't ruin his life if they were wrong, etc.

I truly hope anyone in Delphi who has any real strong feelings about someone in their town isn't held back by the same kind of sentiments as these women. Tips can be anonymous, police will investigate - if you're wrong, you're wrong and hopefully the worse that person will endure is a difficult interrogation and that person if innocent will be free to move on with their lives, but if you're right...justice will be done.

I know, none of the above is really anything new that hasn't been re-hashed here a thousand times but the show last night triggered these thoughts.
 
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Did BG choose RLs land because he knew it well and his DNA could be on it anyway making the placing of BG there for the murders difficult to prove?

Maybe

Did someone give him an alibi who is now dead?

Alibis never depend on an individual's word. They involve solid proof, like video or audio or gps position (your phone). If you don't have those, no alibi. In other words, the death of someone who provided an alibi isn't going to matter, MOO.

Is BG in jail for another crime?

Probably not, because he would have shown up in CODIS. He's never had his DNA taken, MOO.
 
They may have a person(s) in their sights but ...

There was a case in Southern California where a man was convicted of burglary based solely on the fact that his DNA was found at the crime scene. He appealed the conviction. The Appeal Court was asked to weigh the question of whether DNA is such convincing evidence, that nothing else matters. The court said No.

While DNA evidence may be considered the same as a fingerprint and can link a suspect to a crime, a criminal conviction requires much more. The criminal justice system depends on irrefutable proof that the defendant was not only present when the crime was committed, but also that he or she in fact committed the crime.

If LE had the murder weapon (and I don't believe they do), DNA can link it directly to the crime. If semen was found, that too can be a direct link. However, if they only have fingerprints, the prosecution must be able to prove that the fingerprints were impressed at the time and not at some earlier date.

In the case of sexual assault, it should be remembered that this can also happen with an object, in which case semen won’t be found, but it's possible that fingerprints could be found on the object. That type of SA is all about power, not sexual gratification. In this case, that sort of crime scene could explain the horror LE felt when the bodies were discovered.

Sgt Holeman said, “At every crime scene, you are going to have DNA. We are still working on identifying all of the DNA that we have there”. It may be from multiple people, and it may all be from family members or friends (Kelsi had friends over the night before). Becky said family and friends had all provided DNA swabs.

Apart from DNA, IMO the missing piece of the puzzle is that they can’t place any known person at the crime scene and that’s why they’re desperately hoping for someone to come forward.

The highest standard of proof is required for criminal convictions, especially in murder cases where the death penalty or a life sentence may be imposed.

Leazenby said, “This one’s just – it’s got a whole new, it’s got a whole twist to it that even I as a 30-year veteran have never seen”.

DC said the girls were "brutally murdered" and described what happened as the "epitome of evil". "Those two girls, once we tell you all we know about them you might understand a little bit more about why it’s so emotional".

I don't think an arrest is imminent at all.

I agree 100% on the DNA stuff, DNA is not the be all and end all in a criminal case. I think a lot of people put value in what they see on TV shows and think it applies to real-world criminal investigations. If DNA were so valuable, and such a huge part of a lot of cases, a lot more cases would have been solved already in the last 20 years or so.

My hunch is LE in this case has to have someone, or some people, come forward and say they know BG, they know where he was or wasn't on 2.13.17, and maybe other reasons why they think they know the identity of the perp. The information has to be such that it holds up in court, imagine a case falling apart in court and the actual BG later files a lawsuit against Carroll County and various other parties over false incarceration and other legalities.

JMO
 
I think LE has dug a hole in trying to avoid saying, “yes, we have dna” and now begin to sound confused and boggled, all in an attempt to avoid talking about any sexual assault that may have taken place right from the start. If there had not been any such acts, I think they would have stated this right away. Instead we have three years of dna word salad (I hate that phrase but...) jmo. Their actions over the years clearly show they are trying to match dna to other criminals, etc...all jmo.
 
If underwear and clothes were in the creek, could that indicate a sexual assault, meaning possible DNA ? We know DNA swabs are being taken (Etter for example) so likely IMO.
Problem is if perp was under 18, there is probably no DNA in the system.
 
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