Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

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GMG1999

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Well I initially concluded that since no one had come up with who this was he had to be a person not local....but the more I read and listen to things about the trails and area of where this occurred, I have changed my belief to be that this person is very familiar with the are and probably lives in or around the area.
 

No it's not

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Does anybody know if LE has looked into family members of the people buried at the nearby cemetery? Or the death dates/burial dates/birth dates of those buried there?

This is a stretch. But I keep wondering if there is a connection to the proximity of the trails and cemetery and the date of the murders being so close to Valentine’s Day.

It is not a stretch. LE most likely looked into the Morning Heights records, so did a few of us..:)

Memorials in Morning Heights Cemetery - Find A Grave

-Nin
 

Mike Britton

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I think "may appear younger than his true age" would have to put BG at least in his mid to upper 20's. An 18-23/4 yr old male looking any younger than true age would be adolescent looking. So I think they are saying even though he has a full head of hair and a youthful face shape, don't discount a 25-40 yr old you have suspicions about. I really don't think LE is trying to say he is 18-24 but looks 15.

LE may have said he may look younger than he appears because he (sometimes) has facial hair.
 

Charlot123

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It is not a stretch. LE most likely looked into the Morning Heights records, so did a few of us..:)

Memorials in Morning Heights Cemetery - Find A Grave

-Nin

And the connection could be: birthday, day of the death, someone recently deceased whose burial BG had missed. Or just visiting a relative’s grave because he was in the area.

Other option: BG lived there many years ago and had a relationship, and was visiting the grave of his only true love before the Valentine’s Day (before, as on the Valentine he had to be with his wife).

There maybe a more remote connection, BG was adopted and finally found his biological mom/dad, several months after he/she expired. The day may be random then, the connection, significant.
 

Charlot123

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One thing LE probably knows is whether the killer was connected to the girls, and had a motive, or was a random killer with SK habits.

A SK would probably have a very different profile from someone who had the motive to kill one of the girls.

I was rereading the case of Andrei Chicatilo, the “Rostov maniac”. I would advise people to read it - it is on Wikipedia. Especially the psychological portrait.

One of the reasons Chicatilo was not apprehended for a long time was the difference between his blood group (A) and his semen group (AB). I can’t explain the difference, but it is mentioned twice in the article. Someone later commuted that a mistake was made in initial typing of the semen, but don’t know if it was the case.

But that case made me think. Are we relying on DNA too much as well? Is it possible that a mistake was made here, or that the DNA has been planted? Or something else went wrong with analyzing it? Are there any other clues? (Footprints, etc?). Is there a computer search of similar CODs? In other words, what about old detective work?
 

Charlot123

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Listen to his voice . Easy-going, mild mannered sounding. Look at the pic, hands in pockets, again giving that easy-going facade.
Perhaps lured the girls down the hill w/directions to something interesting.

The voice is dull and hoarse. Maybe there are many such voices in IN? DC has a dull voice. The policeman talking on TV about online sleuths also has a dull, hoarse voice (who is he BTW? New face). Mike Patty, on the contrary, has a loud, full-bodied voice.

I started listening to voices. I still wonder what Tobe Lazenby meant when he said he heard the voice before? Did he hear it on the phone? Could it be a place where he called several times, but not as important that he’d make a note of it? Interesting remark.
 

Brazenkane

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LE owes the public another PC. Targeted not directly at the killer. (Maybe they are wrong with their POI, either). LE needs to address the public. (And maybe they do need to release more audio, but I am not a specialist). But they definitely need to consult someone with experience as to how to proceed from now.

ETA: someone who is not from the area and has not broken the investigator’s neutrality. Someone who has the optics. Someone who can communicate with the public in a logical, not paternalistic/family way. I think one of the problems is, local LE is very local.


I think we will never again see a further release of info, do you know why? I’m pretty certain LE knows who it is.... and probably has for over a year.

I’m the furtherest thing from an expert but I’ve been studying countless interviews and press conferences and the subtleties (and the not so subtle) in the language used by LE, makes me reasonably sure they have had a suspect in mind for the last year or so. DC becoming a more visible face of the investigation is also a sign of a positive turning point (often you see more junior officers become messengers as cases go cold).

I wouldn’t be surprised if you stop seeing LE referring to tips, instead they will use other words such as evidence, or confessions or data or pieces of info.... but no more tips. They will probably start to be more focused on alibis and acquaintances turning BG in.

I think the real thing holding this case back now is the jury expectation of solid, conclusive DNA to get a conviction. Good old fashioned detective work isn’t enough anymore, it needs to be completely packaged.
 
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Marzipan

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The voice has a shake to it, like some I’ve heard before. I know it could be sound quality and phone pick up, but it sounds to me like the voice itself. Calm (my dad’s voice used to only shake when he was angry) so I feel like it’s a voice that normally has a less than smooth vibration. When does Lazenby say he’s heard it before?

I’ve tried to be a good case newby and read old threads but there are a few topics I can’t find. I’m sure they’ve been discussed like crazy but will ask anyway—Thanks!

Does anyone hear any type of accent, local or otherwise? (I don’t but not good at hearing nuances other than where my family members are from).

There must be lots of footwear evidence on the land. Any info on that, or discussion of shoes from video? I can’t make out shoes at all.

How do they get the height estimate? From video, from footprints, or both? Or from sketch witnesses?

Hat...sorry, I know you would have discussed to death. Wish I’d been here. As I mentioned, I was staying away. I get too absorbed. Making sure this time I’m balancing with other interests. But really, that hat drives me nuts.What is it?

The voice is dull and hoarse. Maybe there are many such voices in IN? DC has a dull voice. The policeman talking on TV about online sleuths also has a dull, hoarse voice (who is he BTW? New face). Mike Patty, on the contrary, has a loud, full-bodied voice.

I started listening to voices. I still wonder what Tobe Lazenby meant when he said he heard the voice before? Did he hear it on the phone? Could it be a place where he called several times, but not as important that he’d make a note of it? Interesting remark.
 

Inthedetails

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The mention of Valentine's Day - and the day off from public school - makes me think more and more that this was an arranged meeting between an adult man (who likely portrayed himself younger online) and one of the girls.

Perhaps he thought he was meeting one of the girls, but she brought along her friend for safety. I'm assuming she thought it would be a nice daytime date for a walk in the park and a chance to meet in person someone she met online (my assumption) - she might have been expecting a sweet Valentine encounter. But he had nefarious plans for her, perhaps to abduct her.

With two girls instead of one, including one girl who was willing to record him and fight back, things went, well, "down the hill."

I never really considered Valentine's Day as a role in the crime and am surprised after all this time, it now pops out at me. Of course, I realize I'm using it to fit the scenario of what I think happened.

jmo
 

Charlot123

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The voice has a shake to it, like some I’ve heard before. I know it could be sound quality and phone pick up, but it sounds to me like the voice itself. Calm (my dad’s voice used to only shake when he was angry) so I feel like it’s a voice that normally has a less than smooth vibration. When does Lazenby say he’s heard it before?

I’ve tried to be a good case newby and read old threads but there are a few topics I can’t find. I’m sure they’ve been discussed like crazy but will ask anyway—Thanks!

Does anyone hear any type of accent, local or otherwise? (I don’t but not good at hearing nuances other than where my family members are from).

There must be lots of footwear evidence on the land. Any info on that, or discussion of shoes from video? I can’t make out shoes at all.

How do they get the height estimate? From video, from footprints, or both? Or from sketch witnesses?

Hat...sorry, I know you would have discussed to death. Wish I’d been here. As I mentioned, I was staying away. I get too absorbed. Making sure this time I’m balancing with other interests. But really, that hat drives me nuts.What is it?

@Marzipan , I don’t remember where, because there was so much stuff coming from this case. But he does. Maybe someone here will remember? It is MSM.

The voice itself is interesting. I can hear a “different accent” from the place where I live, but it is the case for a local speech therapist to analyze. I also hear what I would call poor prosody, very narrow range of intonations, and the man ought to have been under stress. But speech therapists know these things much better. However, a good vocal analysis would probably tell more about the person that we think.

ETA: I heard such a voice in one of the people from PA. I never tipped him because he is an outlier age-wise, because the gait is different, and because of many other reasons - I think that to catch the girls, one has to at least move fast, or be strong. But knowing now what the person had been likely diagnosed with, I understand that it is not usual.
 
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Charlot123

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The mention of Valentine's Day - and the day off from public school - makes me think more and more that this was an arranged meeting between an adult man (who likely portrayed himself younger online) and one of the girls.

Perhaps he thought he was meeting one of the girls, but she brought along her friend for safety. I'm assuming she thought it would be a nice daytime date for a walk in the park and a chance to meet in person someone she met online (my assumption) - she might have been expecting a sweet Valentine encounter. But he had nefarious plans for her, perhaps to abduct her.

With two girls instead of one, including one girl who was willing to record him and fight back, things went, well, "down the hill."

I never really considered Valentine's Day as a role in the crime and am surprised after all this time, it now pops out at me. Of course, I realize I'm using it to fit the scenario of what I think happened.

jmo

This is a great idea, but then, a SA?

The problem is, I still don’t know if it was a SA or a motivated killing. I hope LE knows. Valentine day definitely turns it into a SA.
 

Charlot123

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I think we will never again see a further release of info, do you know why? I’m pretty certain LE knows who it is.... and probably has for over a year.

I’m the furtherest thing from an expert but I’ve been studying countless interviews and press conferences and the subtleties (and the not so subtle) in the language used by LE, makes me reasonably sure they have had a suspect in mind for the last year or so. DC becoming a more visible face of the investigation is also a sign of a positive turning point (often you see more junior officers become messengers as cases go cold).

I wouldn’t be surprised if you stop seeing LE referring to tips, instead they will use other words such as evidence, or confessions or data or pieces of info.... but no more tips. They will probably start to be more focused on alibis and acquaintances turning BG in.

I think the real thing holding this case back now is the jury expectation of solid, conclusive DNA to get a conviction. Good old fashioned detective work isn’t enough anymore, it needs to be completely packaged.

They do. That April PC was clearly meant “directly to the killer”. Maybe they pulled out his childish photo and made the sketch, who knows?

But as the result, there are at least four different POIs that I know of (IRL, way more) who are young and whose names are mentioned/hinted at on the Internet. I suspect that neither of them is the killer, but even if one is, the other three are innocent. It concerns me that people’s lives might be at risk because of the case.

LE needs to say something specific about YouTube videos, or about other hobbies unrelated to it. You know? They are into their investigation, but in the meantime, these people who are suspected by the public can have a problem with getting a job, promotions, etc. As to DNA, it may take LE years to make the case airtight. Maybe they’ll never be able to prove it. I am concerned about justice, but also, injustice, too, as what about people who are accused because they live in Delphi?

ETA: I think you are right. And they are close, because they are pulling off all information from YouTube, even something that used to be totally mainstream.

Whatever. As long as they don’t pin it on an innocent guy, good luck!
 
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Brazenkane

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They do. That April PC was clearly meant “directly to the killer”. Maybe they pulled out his childish photo and made the sketch, who knows?

But as the result, there are at least four different POIs that I know of (IRL, way more) who are young and whose names are mentioned/hinted at on the Internet. I suspect that neither of them is the killer, but even if one is, the other three are innocent. It concerns me that people’s lives might be at risk because of the case.

LE needs to say something specific about YouTube videos, or about other hobbies unrelated to it. You know? They are into their investigation, but in the meantime, these people who are suspected by the public can have a problem with getting a job, promotions, etc. As to DNA, it may take LE years to make the case airtight. Maybe they’ll never be able to prove it. I am concerned about justice, but also, injustice, too, as what about people who are accused because they live in Delphi?

ETA: I think you are right. And they are close, because they are pulling off all information from YouTube, even something that used to be totally mainstream.

Whatever. As long as they don’t pin it on an innocent guy, good luck!

Yeah it’s really concerning the idea of innocent people being publicly accused. I worry about the mental health of these innocent people and the impact the accusations would be having on their lives.

There has already been enough lives ruined through this tragedy.

Perhaps LE could start to publicly clear people or even state that a person is not a POI. I know that wouldn’t be normal, but nothing about this horrific crime is normal.
 
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bradfordsleuth

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I think we will never again see a further release of info, do you know why? I’m pretty certain LE knows who it is.... and probably has for over a year.

I’m the furtherest thing from an expert but I’ve been studying countless interviews and press conferences and the subtleties (and the not so subtle) in the language used by LE, makes me reasonably sure they have had a suspect in mind for the last year or so. DC becoming a more visible face of the investigation is also a sign of a positive turning point (often you see more junior officers become messengers as cases go cold).

I wouldn’t be surprised if you stop seeing LE referring to tips, instead they will use other words such as evidence, or confessions or data or pieces of info.... but no more tips. They will probably start to be more focused on alibis and acquaintances turning BG in.

I think the real thing holding this case back now is the jury expectation of solid, conclusive DNA to get a conviction. Good old fashioned detective work isn’t enough anymore, it needs to be completely packaged.
I enjoyed reading your insight. Thank you.
Quoted bbm

I think that some of us here are asking ourselves, is LE witholding info from the public preserving the case or keeping it from being solved?

I agree that they have been onto someone for about a year and that they reached a positive turning point in narrowing on a suspect.

I believe this is why they may continue to hold more close to the vest and not release anything else related to the crime, its because they don't need to. (At least that is my biggest hope!)

I also think that your last statement is a key factor here. They need to be very mindful of what the evidence will establish to a jury in order for them to give a guilty verdict.

No 2nd chances here.

All JMO
Edited for clarity
 
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FinePrint

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Does anyone remember the other case search, not the Indiana Mycase but there is another one. Tippy if you are around I know you know what I'm talking about. Thanks
 
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